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" Akj view of Dodra Sangat"?????

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

hello everyone...my first post here.

I have a question that no one seems to be able to answer without resorting to insults. I'm hoping that since this is largely a youth site, we can actually have a reasonable conversation about this, and settle some misconceptions.

Now, you may be wondering about the title of this topic.

I'm referring to the lost jathas out there in Sikhi.

yes yes, i know, there shouldn't be any sects, and yes, it's true...fact remains, there is.

The AKJ has done a marvellous job in spreading sikhi, however countless times, if you view their message board, some Singhs and Singhnees have "accidentally" called it spreading AKJ. i'm not hating on them...the keertan is great, the atmosphere can be wonderful at times, i just don't always agree on their political side, which every jatha has, whether you open your eyes to it or not.

My question is this.

Everyone knows about AKJ, Taksaali, Nihangs and all... But having been brought up in a family that goes to dodra sangat, and having attended samagams for 14 years, and learning to love it immensely, everytime I try to bring it up, to fiond out what exactly it is that Singhs/Singhnees in other jathas (specifically many members of the AKJ, who tend to be very vocal about it) have against Dodra Sangat. I know there are youth in this forum who are of these other jathas, which only helps the question. I know that the youth will have their heads on straight and come up with answers and perhaps even questions for me to solve some misconceptions, instead of just insulting me. so to sum it up.... What's "Wrong" with Dodra?!?!?!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

hello everyone...my first post here.

Welcome brother and welcome to the club of sikhism sisterhood and brothehood.

I have a question that no one seems to be able to answer without resorting to insults.

Sikhs forgot the first rule of Sikhism that always clear things but not insult anyone.

I'm hoping that since this is largely a youth site, we can actually have a reasonable conversation about this, and settle some misconceptions.

Yes! you will and keep reading this thread and you will get the anwser you are looking for in civilized way.

Now, you may be wondering about the title of this topic.

I'm referring to the lost jathas out there in Sikhi.

Nevermind brother because assumptions always give wrong impression.

yes yes, i know, there shouldn't be any sects, and yes, it's true...fact remains, there is.

Great you know that.... :)

The AKJ has done a marvellous job in spreading sikhi,

You should say our Gurus, as they are the source of all the orgs we have within sikhism. So, it doesn't matter if its dam dammi taksaal or AKJ because they all are under the blessings of our 11th Guru Sri guru granth sahib ji's message and spreading the message of Guru ji.

however countless times, if you view their message board, some Singhs and Singhnees have "accidentally" called it spreading AKJ.

I think they are young to understand, so you should let AKJ know about it.

i'm not hating on them...the keertan is great, the atmosphere can be wonderful at times, i just don't always agree on their political side, which every jatha has, whether you open your eyes to it or not.

hamm.. We are not here to judge someone so its hard to decide what their politics is but I would like to advice that you should contact them directly.

My question is this.

Everyone knows about AKJ, Taksaali, Nihangs and all

Yes, we know about them.

But having been brought up in a family that goes to dodra sangat, and having attended samagams for 14 years, and learning to love it immensely, everytime I try to bring it up, to fiond out what exactly it is that Singhs/Singhnees in other jathas (specifically many members of the AKJ, who tend to be very vocal about it) have against Dodra Sangat.

Again, I have limited knowledge of Dodra group so im not going to comment on them. But if I go by your concern then its better to ask AKJ directly not from the kids going to AKJ but seniors from their group.

I know there are youth in this forum who are of these other jathas, which only helps the question.

Let's hope they come up with good anwser and they will as far as I know so I will wait, till they come up with something like that but I expect mature anwsers from them.

I know that the youth will have their heads on straight and come up with answers and perhaps even questions for me to solve some misconceptions, instead of just insulting me.

If they will insult you then they are insulting a sikh who is as important to guru ji as anybody else so we all not going to sit here and let them do it. But it can be your wrong assumptions so wait till they anwser you.

so to sum it up.... What's "Wrong" with Dodra?!?!?!

It would have been nice if you had given good information about Dodra.

I would request you to go through few thread we had for orgs and sants so you can get the idea in the meantime.

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...topic.php?t=738

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...topic.php?t=293

Also I will advice you to go through their FAQ as well.

http://www.akj.org.uk/faq/default.asp

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

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Well....my intention was more to see what other people would say, just by hearing Dodra

again, i didn't intend to single out the AKJ, but i only use them because they are most vocal about their dislike of dodra sangat. and again, i mean certain singhs/singhnees who are akj, not generalizing.

veerji, i have to disagree that the youth here may be too young. At school, in UK, Toronto, Vancouver, chances are that they go to school with other sikh students, from a vairety of jathas, so they eventually learn from each other, they bget curious...ask their elders. I myself am 16, and i can guarantee i've learned nowhere near enough. but as youth, we should discuss this kind of thing, cuz we are the future of sikhi... shouldn't we learn as youth from youth, instead of learning from elders who maybe have not even experienced other sangat, or have a closed-minded view?

What i mean is that.... well, basically, if you have heard any misconceptions about dodra sangat, please post them. and better yet, if you have heard good things about dodra sangat, please post them as well. this is a selfish post, i agree. i say this becayse i am limiting on focusing the positives/negatives on dodra sangat, but i think it's important that all misconceptions and stereotypes, generalizations be cleared up.

like i said... we are the future... fact is that AKJ, Dodra, Taksaal, Nihangs...we may all be thriving as units, but Sikhi as a whole is in turmoil because of politics. We, as the future, should strive to, if not eliminate the jathas, at least co-exist.

Please feel free to ask and post away. It's obvious i'm not the only one who can give an informed response to this post, so please sangato, let's discuss this. this is very important, as the way we think as youth could very well shape the way sikhi is "managed" in the future.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!!!!!

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like i said... we are the future... fact is that AKJ, Dodra, Taksaal, Nihangs...we may all be thriving as units, but Sikhi as a whole is in turmoil because of politics. We, as the future, should strive to, if not eliminate the jathas, at least co-exist.

If we make it our mission for next two years then to be honest we don't need to cry for anything. Sikhs have power, finance but only thing they need knowledge of Sikhism and "unity" and that's it. If 16 years old can see that then I can see the bright future of Sikhism. :D:D:D:D

I'll let AKJ respond to your question because I can't be spokeman from AKJ as I have limited knowledge about them but I know they're spreading the word of Sikhism and that's great.

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wit guru's kirpa, i hav attended many samagams of akj & also of dodra. as my father is local head of akj, i hav met so many singhs of akj.also my uncle is head of local dodra sangat, so i hav attended dodra samagams, but i hav never heard tis. akj members r against dodra or -----,

it is that Singhs/Singhnees in other jathas (specifically many members of the AKJ, who tend to be very vocal about it) have against Dodra Sangat

that akj members r against dodra sangat.can u plz tell to sangat any name of akj singh who is against dodra or belong to dodra singh who's against akj sangat.

its better if u giv their names. so v can contact them personally & get their views.

bhul chuk di khema.

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Well, I know that Veer Harpreet Singh has openly said to many people i know that he thinks dodra sangat is a cult.... this bothers me, because it seems to me that he's never been to a samagam.

i hate when i hear things like this, especially since we follow the rehit almost to a T. i mean..i don't understand it. AKJ say that they follow a stricter rehit, but if the rehit was not meant to be *stricter* in the first place, then why change it at all.....it seems like they're excluding sikhi to those that are following the official rehit for the panth.

Gianni Nahar Singh has openly said controversial things about Dodra sangat, also along the lines of it being a cult, and that we don't know what we're doing.

then there's others, like Doola Veerji and Bhai Jeevan Singh who actually have attended dodra samagams in Canada and in India, and they enjoy it, but are told that they can either come to dodra samagams, or be in the AKJ, and not both.

In General, for example, in that big mess on the AKJ Message Board last year or so, there was a huge huge discussion about Dodra Sangat, which actually ended up being a huge thread of insults against dodra sangat, with very few people supporting Dodra. But the amount of insults and personal attacks led the administrators to shut down the message board for a few weeks, because emotions were too high.

Could someone please explain to me what's so wrong about doing simran in the dark? this seemed to be one of the issues in that thread. Personally, the darkness helps you concentrate, as it's not as easy to start looking around at things that catch your attention.

Another thing is that there was things said against reading Gurbani Vichar lekhs which are written by Bauji (Jaswant Singh Ji, founded Dodra Sangat), about gurbani, spirituality and just generally about life and how to handle things as they come about. There was alot of heat about this, but what's the difference if we read something of Bauji's about gurbani during a samagam, or if we read something of Bhai Vir Singh Ji during a samagam. If Bhai Randheer Singh can be classified as great, how come Bauji can't be classified as great in the same breath?

These are things that have bothered me..there's alot more, but i'm only saying these....for now.

Still looking for some responses :D

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

P.S --Question for 'singh khalistan da' where do you live???

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bhai harpreet singh ji lives in my city, and we do gatka 2gether 8)

anyways, if u can give us the facts (ie wat the dodra sangat does differently) then that would help.

PLZ TELL US WAT THEY DO DIFFERENTLY.

waheguroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh!

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Ok

Sorry, i haven't logged in since yesterday, hence the late reply

Ok

anyways, if u can give us the facts (ie wat the dodra sangat does differently) then that would help.

PLZ TELL US WAT THEY DO DIFFERENTLY.

Veerji, Dodra Sangat doesn't do that much different... this is what puzzles me...

Like i said, we do simran in the dark. At samagams, our program starts at 5 in the morning with Naam Simran till 6 am

from 6 to 7 am, there's nitnem di paath

from 7 - 930, it's asa di vaar

from 9:30 to 12, akhand kirtan and bhog

then Guru Ka Langar and break till 3:30

3:30 till 4:30, there's naam simran

4:30 - 5:00 Gurbani Vichaar (what i explained before)

5-6, Rehraas Sahib

6-9 (9:30 sometimes) Akhand Kirtan and Bhog

And then repeat this.. for example, if the samagam starts on a friday, they'll start the program at 5 PM with simran, rehraas, gurbani vichaar and kirtan

and then we do the morning program on the last day of the samagam, and the samagam ends at noon.

Before each shabad, we start with about a couple of minutes of singing Dhan Guru Nanak on the vaajja, followed by a couple minutes of simran, and then go into the shabad.

The samagams happen all over North America, UK/Germany and in India.

The format is the same.

Sat Sri Akal:

Me must ask stupid question:

What are this "Dodra Sangat"?

in response to this question, not stupid at all, by the way...

dodra sangat is a jatha founded in punjab alsmot 100 years ago by Jaswant Singh. He was part of the AKJ at one time, but as he started to dis like the way things were going in the AKJ, and the more political stance they were beginning to take, he broke off, and adopted the Rehit as given by Shri Akal Takht. He spent 2 or 3 years in solitary, doing simran and kirtan on his own, and slowly started sangat in Dodra, a village in Punjab. Very simple sangat, people came, stayed, got langar, did kirtan, did simran, and that was it. As Dodra Sangat gained popularity, Bauji (Jaswant Singh) began to write books about spirituality and sangat and simran. So he wrote about 150 pamphlet sized (15 - 20 pages) lekhs on these topics.

Back to the history... Around the late 1970's, a Singh from Elkford BC went to India and found Bauji. He enjoyed the style of sangat and asked for Bauji to come to Canada. He did, and Dodra sangat was started in Elkford in 1980. Anyways, because Dodra Sangat places no restrictions on anybody, it has grown to be the biggest Sangat in the world. Sahejdharis, Keshdharis and Amritdharis all do Kirtan, however only amritdharis do ardaas di seva, hukamnaama di seva, and things like that.

if there's any questions pertaining to this, or if theres any misconceptions that people have heard, please please feel free to ask questions

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

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i know for a fact that he used to go to dodra...like in dodra itself, and would seem to be enjoying it...but then he was told to choose, and so he never came again

that could be a reason as to why he distances himself.

same thing happened to Dulla Veerji in toronto...he attended weekly sangat in toronto for a few weeks, and then was asked not to go, so he stopped.

my question is why be asked to stop, or why be told to choose. what is "wrong" with dodra sangat?

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All,

This question came to my mind and I think I should ask here because both AKJ and Dodra Sangat members are here.

As far as, my understanding goes they both are using Sri Guru Granth sahib as their main source. Now if "Dodra di Sangat" uses SGGS then howcome its not "Guru Di Sangat" but instead its "Dodra di Sangat"?

It might be stupid question but as far as my understanding goes for Sikhism, I think there should be one term within Sikhism "Guru ki Sangat" and Gursikh?

What you guys think about it?

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waheguru!

it's true

you're right, there should be! i pointed that out earlier

fact is that there are jathas. i just don't get why some people put other jathas down.

AKJ doesn't read raag mala...that's their decision as a jatha, and that's cool.. but the thing is that i don't get why people have to say bad things about dodra sangat... it is sangat, after all.... it's not like our leader is corrupt, like Grewal is...this is because we have no "leader", other than our guru, or our satguru..

again....fact is that there shouldn't be these sects....but there is.

i'm just saying that for a long time, dodra has had a bad name among the panth....i just wanna know why... i wanna know what people know that i haven't heard... which is why i keep on asking for people to ask questions, so that eventually, we can all be one... so that there can be all these jathas, but that at least everyone is educated! cuz right now, our jathas are thriving, but sikhi as a whole is in turmoil.. there will always be jathas....that's just how it is..that's human nature and it happens within every religion. but if we learn from each other, and accept everyone, we can at least live like one, even if we have slightly different methods for achieving the same goal.

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

bhul chuk maaf karni, if i have said something wrong, or if i have confused someone

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i actually don't know the answer to that.. all i know is that AKJ has never liked reading Raag Mala

I remember on their website once, in the message board, they were talking about a toronto samagam that had passed, and someone even said that "the samagam was beautiful but marred only by the fact that someone (i forget the name), forced us to read raag mala"

sukhsingh veerji, i don't know why they don't read Raag Mala..they just don't think that it isn't baani, i guess.. My personal belief has always been that it's part of Guru Granth Sahib Ji...so who exactly are we to question it, cuz to me it's like questioning any other part of the Guru Granth Sahib.... it just doesn't seem right to me.

bhul chuk maaf

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!

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Gabroo ji,

i know you were goin to get suprised.

But welcome to the land of jathabandis and different rehat maryada's, full of conflicts.

I know you probably thought how sikhs are united but you look deep inside and research you will see em proud of being to specific jatha more than be a sikh.

Its good that you know now how many small fragments, sikhism is been broken into. So you the future khalsa know what to avoid!!

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waheguroo n3o paji, i know i'm no1 to fuss as a non-sikh, but its a shame, the only jatha bandai out there should be that of the khalsa, united under 1 safron flag.

i am at a loss for words... small differences can split a quam, vah ji vah hindooz have suceeded need i say more

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No one's saying that they're not sikh... it's just plain old fact that there's all these jathas...that's just the way it is...why pretend that it doesn't exist? almost everyone is "associated" to a jatha... so for the sake of the future of sikhi, don't you think that it's better that we learn to respect each other so that we can coexist and make the proper decisions?

i didn't say anywhere that i wasn't sikh...nor did i state anywhere that anyone else wasn't. the fact is that there are jathas these days, and it's impossible to get rid of a jatha. If you ask anyone in Dodra Sangat, they'll say they're Sikh...as will anyone in AKJ, Taksaali or Nihang...

I understand the question.. i really do...but why does it feel like we're just shielding ourselves from the fact? why can't we just face the fact that there are different jathas and that for the good of the future of sikhi, we're gonna have to all get along, and point is, right now, we don't!

I don't understand how it's coexistence when the largest jatha of them all is being hated on by some people... the best point made was that every one of us uses the same reference for our sikhi...but still we can't get along cuz of misconceptions...we're being blind to the facts if we decided to pretend there were no jathay...it's the way it's going to be for quite some time now

I respect what you're saying. I'm being totalllly honest with you.. I understand that there is concern that we were made one way, and we're drifting. The thing is that we've got all these different jathas now, so we might as well accept it, because it's the way it'll be for a while. For the good of Sikhi, we should at least coexist.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni

WAHEGURU ji ka KHALSA!

WAHEGURU ji ki FATEH!

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co-existance is something different, but forming "jatha bandais" is wrong...

who are we to introduce platforms in sikhi, dhun siri guru gobind singh ji maharaj left this earth when all wuz perfect within sikhi, no jatha bandais just the khalsa fauj.........

i know what ur saying, and i know u know what i'm saying so we all know what every1s saying but theres noo NEED for jathabandais....

akj, dodra, taaksali...hmmm NO NEEED (not 2 diss i respect em all as they teach sikhi) but i hear i'm akj, dodra, taaaksali, nanaksaria more then ihear i'm proud 2 be a SIKH.

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Again....

no one is denying the fact that we are all sikh.

let's take a different view at this..

lets say that someone says something bad about you...and then this spreads, and many people start thinking it is true....

would you not want to settle it? like.. would you not want to let everyone know what the truth is about the situation?

that's all i'm saying... this post is talking specifically about the fact that things need to be cleared up... if you would like..and this isn't out of any rudeness... we could start a thread, where every post just says "i am sikh"

i'm making this point because within sikhi, some are hating on others... can we please stop? and how can we stop... by communicating.. that's a main rule of mankind...communication solves problems....

look, this isn't a personal attack, i'm making that clear now... but if you would like, i will start a threat that says I am Sikh..that's it... the fact is, the topic of THIS particular thread pertains to this.

Sangat is like our Gurmukh...for those of us not lucky enough to have a human gurmukh or mahapurkh who can guide us, we have to have our sangat.

I hope this made some sense

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I am someone that has done sangat with AKJ, Dodra and SatNaam Sagar (what some would consider Grewal's Group) and have done so for over 5 years. I have interacted with all, and have tried to take whatever good I could find or precieve at this point in my life, and use that to help me. I think any group that promotes the teachings of hate, is not part of sikhism. Any group that belittles the mode of worship of others to our Beloved as not promoting Sikhism. Any group that considers itself the "next best thing", or the Truest form of Sikhism as not promoting Sikhism. No one knows of the original form of Sikhism, many claim they do, you will know when yourself are a sacrifice to Gurbani, and no longer slander and belittle others. How many in this life time, will be so Blessed? The external Rehat means nothing without the Inner Rehat. And the internal Rehat, always is exhibited externally.

I have done sangat with AKJ. In my interpretation they way that many co-ordinate themselves, and practise as a Group I would consider a cult. Going against the teaches of Sikhism. By some, i have even heard the thinking, that if Guru Gobind Singh Ji was to appoint another living Guru, it would have been Bhai Randhir Singh Ji. A group, that promotes itself as Ideal, the purest form, and yet belittles and slanders others. I see as being false. Where the most Basic principle of Langar, and communal eating regardless of faith, is not practised. The keertan style done, does not reflect the form of Raag, they way it is dictated in Gurbani, and Waheguru Simran is performed during the deliverance of the message of the Shabad, something that itself was introduced this century, by an AKJ Singh, that was later excumunecated for unrelated reasons. I am saying this, because if this is the original and purest form of Sikhism, why is it that fundamentals in Gurbani, such as doing only keertan in Raag form seen as being nothing but a technicality, and not practised uncompremisingly, and another form of Keertan promoted? I think the AKJ mentality most often is dictated by those individuals that are considered "ponchay", or are thought of as having done alot of "Kamayi," individuals that are Chardiakalah. Hence, why Waheguru Simran was maintained in the Performance of Keertan, as other Chardiakalah Singhs also participated in this foreign mode of Keertan. (The same is done in Dodra Sangat)

Dodra Sangat, in some respects I would also consider a Cult, and I am not sure where on earth JSB got the Idea that it was the biggest Jatha, I don't believe that at all. That to me is akin to the musliims saying they are the fastest growing religion in the west, based on conversion. A baseless statement, and promoting nothing but itself. It may be said, that the statement was made to make a point, but points can be made in other manners rather that stating baseless "facts" such as these. How is the number of those that are part of Dodra Sangat evaluated and construed?

I have read some of the Lekhs of Jaswant Singh Ji, and I think alot of what he has written has good in it, a quality that I have also seen in the writings of Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, SatNaam Sagar and other Guru Piyaarai. One thing I did not like about Dodra Sangat, was that fact that alot of individuals would do things according to what they felt Jaswant Singh Ji would have said is correct, according to those that kept his company or their interpretations of the Lekhs. This seemed to be a source of guidance. One time I asked an auntie in the Toronto Sangat, if I could make an annoucement about sponsorship of Orphan Children in India ( Gur Aasra Foundation). I was directed to numerous individuals, with comments such as "we don't know if Mahapurkh would have allowed it," being made. To even have a second thought of allowing someone to make an announcement about helping the down trodden, seemed absurd to me, and not very Sikhi like, especially when it was the guidance of a person that was sought. Further, many individuals in the Sangat consider the originator of the sangat or jatha, or whatever you would like to call it as a Master, Mahapurkh, and have a living Mata Ji. Individuals to whom, Sangat use to Mutha Taek and continue to do so. I cannot comment on Mata Ji or Jaswant Singh, as I have not kept their company. But from what I have heard, from reliable sources who have done their sangat, is that they consider themselves nothing, and put all esteem into respecting Sangat where Keertan is Sung, love is shown, and take no virtues upon themselves. I believe the same was the case with Bhai Randhir Singh.

I have done Sangat with Nariender Singh Ji, for almost 5 years on and off, the same amout of time, that I have done sangat with AKJ and Dodra Sangats. I will not comment upon him as an individual in terms of His Bhagtee and Spiritual achievements, as I have recieved all the answers I have Sought via Hukamnama's. I will not slander, or belittle him, as I would not to any Guru Piyaara. From my interactions with him, as a person, I see him as a person that genuinely follows what he believes Gurbani teaches. He follows a Very literal interpretation of Gurbani, and always bows down to Sangat and mutha taeks, considerig Sangat the Highest of all things, because within it Resides God. Everyones personal life is just that, their own personal life, and whatever actions we perform in that life, we will reap what we sow. The SatNaam Sangat shows no discrimination towards others, based on religion, caste or creed, and Truthful living as is interpreted by them. To them 3 things are ABSOLUTELY fundamental to Sikh Practise according to their thought. Gur (God), Gursangat (company of God Oriented Souls), and Guru ( Gurbani and Company of a Living BrahmGiani)

A few things I did not like, and would make some consider them a cult is the fact that they put down groups such as AKJ, as were other individuals that belittled SatNaam Sangat. Those that leave the sangat, are seen as disbelievers in the interpretation of a Sant (as they percieve it ) in Gurbani. Those that recieve "Naam", by Nariender Singh Ji are bound to his Guidance to the completion of their spiritual journey, (as they are to Gurbani equally) and give him Daswand. Because of Such things, my sangat with SatNaam Sagar has decreased, as I do not believe in some of these thoughts or practises. However, having kept company with Narinder Singh Ji since his days as Dixie GuruGhar, I can say that these practises are based on the interpretation made upon Gurbani. Simran is done with alot of Love. Gurbani is held in High Esteem and practised according to their interpretation. And Sangat is promoted.

Each Group has their own interpretation of Gurbani, and each has been initiated by what they would consider "Chardiakalah" Souls. Doing Sangat with and the sewa of such souls is seen as been important to all these groups. Each would see itself as being the purer form of Sikhism. This itself is the root of the differences. The practises and actions of applying Gurbani in Life are different. And this is the root of the conflict, as the action is dictated by differing interpretations. But I have a question for all these groups. Since when has the mode of devotion to the Beloved, been dictated as only being one? If it has not, and many modes of devotion are seen equally, as it is the weight of the heart that is important, why is it that every soul in the Sikh Faith, has to follow a set and rigid external Rehat, when the inner rehat is put on the back burner?

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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