darshan kaur Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 yeh i agree mugermach singh.. peopel have based this segregation on ability. lets face it, men r stronger than women(o no..i gona get beats 4 seyin that) and they r betta at a hole lotta things..however, the things women r best at rn't rele appreaciated and no one no's wot it would b lyk without their mum or sis unless they actually lose dem. women and men r good at diffeent thigns, so everythin is balanced out and if u look at the bigga picture,they r equal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Charitropakhyan comes from two Sanskrit words: Charitra =description or attribute and Upakhyana= episode or chapter. So literaly it means th episode of descriptions or attributes. Stop translating it by "wiles of women" it's grammatically wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Incidentally, Charitropakhyaan is also known as "Treh Charittar" amongst the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa. "Treh" refering to women, and "Charitar" refering to attributes/schemes (hopefully lalleshvari can expand on this further..) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Your right Narsingha. The text is mainly about women (God be praised for them!!!!) and their attributes. Now contrarily to most Indian and Islamic literature Guru Gobind SIngh Ji does NOT condemn female sexuality he actually admires the intelligence of women. In the Chaupa Singh Rahitnama he confirms this by saying that due to that sexual link between husband and wifem, Sikh women should use it to make their husbands better Sikhs. :bow: :bow: :bow: Guru Gobind SIngh was probably the first post-feminist well beyond his times. And look how girls are treated in our community now! Such a shame! Many families don't even know how to deal with their daughters having their first period. Pendood!!!!!!!!!!!11 :evil: :evil: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Incidentally, for anyone who has actually READ the entire Charitropakhyaan/Treh Charittar of Sodhibans Bajjawalley Dasmesh Pitah Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji, they will quickly realise that these works are not to insult or undermine the status of women... Rather, give the reader more respect for womankind and for what they represent within creation. For example, Guru Maharaj states that women are four times more intelligent than men (in a given situation), and are better at coming up with schemes, plans and deceptions. *dreams of being a woman* (..kidding..) Many moronic self-proclaimed scholars have taken many of these beautiful stories out of context, and selectively mis-quote in order to propagate their own paranoia about not violating any Victorian taboos that exist within mainstream modern Sikhi. Then again, it appears today that once a person joins the fold of modern mainstream Sikhism, they are automatically stripped of their sexuality, sensuality and ability to think creatively. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r k Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 is there any evidence even suggesting that Guru Gobind Singh was actually the one who wrote the charitropakyan/treh charitar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 gusy sorry to interrupt, but i think theres a hukumn by akaal takht sahib that no public discussion be made on siri dassam granth ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 gusy sorry to interrupt, but i think theres a hukumn by akaal takht sahib that no public discussion be made on siri dassam granth ji I think the hakum of akal takhth jathedars expired :wink: Time to reform akal takht jathedars into someone spirtual/soldier not some braindead person filled with flith of money. :twisted: :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Sanatan Sikhs - Udhasis, Nirmalas, Seva Panthis, and Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa do not recognise the authority of the SGPC... We prefer to acknowledge the authority of the Gurus rather than some institution set up by the British Raj such as the SGPC and successive personality cults Sanatan Sikhs do not dispite the authenticity of Adi Guru Durbar, Dasam Guru Durbar, or Sarbloh Guru Durbar, and therefore there is no question that Treh Charritar/Charitropakyaan are the works of Dasam Patshah Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji. (besides the Chaupee Sahib that everyone reads is the conclusion to the Treh Charittar, so ask yourself why you read that if you doubt the authenticity of Treh Charritar as the SGPC do) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 well to r k If Charitropakhyan wasn't written by Guru Gobind Singh how come Chaupai Sahib is part of Charitropakhyan? Are you implying that it is not Maharaj's bani? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r k Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 i asked if he wrote all of charitropakhyan, i didn't imply anything scholars will hopefully soon figure out which parts are real and fake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 On a personal note, and i dont really care what the scholars think at the moment, (but i will when i need help). Instead of asking if things are bani or not, ask youself have i read it?? As of yet i have not read the treh chriter, but slowly i will move onto it. Heck, im still stuck in reading Akal Ustat. Jump one Hurdel at a time. If the people here (im sorry to say but i think that most of haven;t read the treh chriter including myself) dont know the content of such a writing i think they should read it b4 they decide or wait for others to make their decisions. Guru Ji gave us a brain so we can think and decide (with his grace) on what is right and wrong. Im guessing that people are scared that if they read the treh chriter they will not be reading bani. And become some sex crazed person because of what they have heard about the content of treh chriter, but remember you are going on the assumption some1 else has made for you. We dont need this middle man as we have a direct contact with Vaheguru. Aquire Knowlege, in what ever form it may be in. for those that have read treh chirter, you guys have vaild opnions. Also, give me your email address so i pick you brian at a later date when i get stuck or need another angle to think out of the box. fateh ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Gurfateh I've been meaning to make this correction for quite a while. To survive, the Sewapanthis moved with the times and have seemingly modified to Tat Khalsa ideology. They have close ties with the Chief Khalsa Diwan, they administer amrit in accordance with the SGPC at occasional darbars and follow standard rehit maryada. This process started with Mahant Gulab Singh, who was amritdhari himself and emphasised it's importance. There is also a recorded account of how they managed to hold onto their deras after the Gurdwara Bill was passed. However, some Mahants and Sevapanthi Sants are not amritdhari, and some still have kempt kesh (more so in Haryana). Although I haven't asked anyone about it, I'd imagine that they did this so that they could still carry on their fundamental role of sewa effectively by being accepted and influential upon those who who held influence over the panth. Equally they still have links back to samprada, for example, the influential Mahant Ishvar Das ji Udasi from Jullundur is on their board. Having spoken to these Udasis they are tuned in to the latest events among the Sewapanthis, demonstrating a close relationship. Furthermore, the scholarly side of the Sewapanthis still exists with the recently publishing of Sant Surjit Singh Sewapanthi's texts on works by Pandit Hardyal, Pandit Gulab Singh Nirmala, etc I haven't clarified whether it still exists, but there was historically a subsect of the Nirmalae called 'samparda adanshahi' based in Nurpur (now in Pakistan) which was the Sewapanthi centre (Tikana) up to partition. I'd imagine Pandit Nischal Singh Sewapanthi who was not only a great philanthropist but a learned scholar of shaastra, who studied at Kashi, was part of this group. Unfortunately I haven't the time to visit Dera Santpura in Yamun Nagar to find out from Mahant Paramjeet Singh - does anyone else know? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 I was confronted with question in another forum. Would Sikh women marrying in other religions reduce the Sikh Panth. Because rehat devised in 1920 by SGPC states that it is sin for a Sikh girl to marry outside Sikh Religion but that rehat is quite about the same for boys as there marrying women from other religions would increase Sikh strenght. The person claimed that it was a clear cut discrimination with Sikh women. What do you think about this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 JUst sounds like the Islamic prohibition for Muslim women to marry non-Muslims whereas male Muslims can marry whoever they want. The Tat Khalsa has always been paranoid about controling women's rights. I think that's horrible.Ama et fac quod vis:St Augustinus of Hippo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Narsingha Ji, you said: Sanatan Sikhs - Udhasis, Nirmalas, Seva Panthis, and Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa do not recognise the authority of the SGPC... I too do not acknowledge the authority of SGPC, only of Guru Shabad.Guru Shabad is the manifestation (Vibhooti) of Vahiguru. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 Ama et fac quod vis:St Augustinus of Hippo :shock: What is this ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 LOve and do what you want. It's Latin! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Phew !! That was a close call !! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Here is great research on dasam granth sahib including chritropakhaiyan- http://www.gurmat.info/srec/srecarticles/s...opakhiyaan.html And also see articles on Dasam granth sahib ji- http://www.gurmat.info/srec/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 ON the Kurahit post there is the mention of masturbation within mariage... interesting :shock: :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidak Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 The following is a link to an essay by Sirdar Kapur Singh [Author of Anandpur Sahib Resolution, incase someone doesn't know who he was] entitled "Sex and Sikhism" http://www.sikhcoalition.org/Sikhism13.asp GurFateh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 It cold have been a good a good article if Kapur Singh had studied Indian erotology a bit more. :cry: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidak Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 dear lalleshvari (or should that be Mr/Dr/Professor [delete as appropriate] Bahadar Singh Nirmala ?) Since you claim to be an academic, would it be possible for you to provide url links to some of your academic work (i'm sure you must have written some research papers! ), just so that we can gain an idea of your perspective into indian and/or sikh studies. Out of curiosity, which university/college did/do you teach/lecture at ? GurFateh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 You are giving me too much honour dear sidak My mummy always told me not to answer to strangers when they ask you personal questions As the topic is sexuality I better not give you my personal details as I don't know if your intentions are honest, chaste and pure! There are a lot of perverts out there you know... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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