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Sikh Fanaticism in the UK


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I'm not doubting anyone's intelligence... I will even give them credit that they may be giannis per somene else's standards... but it does not change the reality that they have no busines cursing at 50, 60 year olds or at anyone of any age for that matter.. vidya with Hangkar is as useless as no vidya at all.. when u come off as fanatic and almost terrorist-like, no one will listen to u.. these actions have no place in the civilized world..

N30 Singh... what u proposed, ie. people preaching their values without insulting others is exactly what the leaders of the Sikh Panth from all sects (for more detail see sikh-heritage.co.uk - misclleaneous section) agreed upon at Guru Nanak Naam Leva conference in Bhaini Sahib in the 1940's...

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shouldnt we also stop the use of plates and spoons ? as im sure Guru Nanak didn't use steel plates and spoons.

We should also only attend the Gurdwara wearing traditional clothing no shirt pent, or modern day baans with thier machine stitched seams and metal press stud button thingies.

Why create a sikhi to the max to move with modern times, insted we should tell sikhs who dont know the original gurmukhi etc they should learn it or do without.

Why build all these youth centres and social community centres next to Gurdwaras using the money of the British Goverment and lottery funding (which is a form of gambling a great manmaat) after all Guru Nanak wouldnt have taken money off a goverment to build a community centre.

Now we may say ooh Mr Banda dynamic valia.. we must draw a line.. !

but with what mat will the line be drawn Gurmat? we need a Guru to dictate that mat to us, if we use our interpretation of Gurmat it will always be different.. and obviously we cant use manmat !.. so how do we draw this line.

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Dear Dynamic

Nice post.

The institutions of sangat and pangat which were started by Guru Nanak had a specific purpose of creating the feeling of brotherhood between the 4 hinducastres and the muslims. That no-one is created higher or lower. The purpose of sitting on the floor was to instil as sense of humilty fro Sikhs . the introduction of steel utensils in langar duz not in any way counteract the purpose of the pangat.

Also the clothing issue that you have brought up is a non issue. How duz wearing a shirt pent counteract the teachings of Guru Nanak?

You have a point with the lottery founded centres. THats a valid point which should be discussed in greater detail. But the earlier points are just nonsensical issues which are stopping people from looking at th greater issues.

also sikhi to the max being used in no way counteracts the teachings of Guru Nanak. When Guru Nanak went on his 4 tours did he do all his teachings in Panjabi? NO! werever he went he taught in the local language. Can u imagine Guru Nanak saying whoever wants Rabbi Gian must first learn Panjabi to the Arabs, persians, bengalis, turkish, tamils, chinese tibeteans ? So why should we tell people who dont know gurmukhi that they cannot know the message of the Guru Granth Sahib?

I suppose a way to draw this line may be to stop use cleveri and chalaki to try and put down someones views.

chatanga

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I thought the langar situation was that all should sit at equal level and eat simple food no matter if they are king or poor.

Nowadays all chairs are made in factorys by machines which mass produce identical units, unless you get the chair with the wobbly legs im assuming we would generally all be still sitting at the same level.. Could it be that the chairs and tables werent around in Guru Nanaks era, after all even now I have seen Punjabis in India prefer to squat then sit on a chair!

Chatanga ji, you say that the utensil statement isnt valid because it doesnt go against the teaching of Guru Nanak, but sitting at the same level also implies no modification of Guru Nanaks message wether it be on plastic about 2 foot above ground or on carpet on the floor.

(Dont get me wrong I love the sitting on the floor idea, I like walking into a langar hall and seeing people twist and turn to get comfortable. I know im abit sad )

The idea of being a community, I cant see how sitting across a table would alienate the community (sangat pangat statement) if anything I have seen people decide to avoid eating langar as and I quote "its hard to sit on the floor and eat properly, plus if I come Gurdwara in my nice suit or shirt pent then it gets all messed up sitting on the floor all creased etc etc"

I also once saw a little fat kid, whose stomach got in the way so he couldnt bend down to reach the thali and eat his roti, so he pushed it over to his mom and went out of the Langar. So maybe the sitting on the floors has alienated these people.. sure there are tables and chairs for those that need them, but once again I see that cause a big "us and them" type division.

I would also like to state that clothing can also cause confusion and divisions contrary to the universal simple message of Guru Nanaks Pangat and Sangat.

So i stick by my earlier statements that lines can easily be pushed this way or that and the UK fanatics are attempting to lay down lines here and there willy nilly, the best way to lay down any line is through seva which brings humility into oneself, and simran bringing bliss into oneself.

I do neither but I heard thats the best way to lay down a line.

:D

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Ofcourse what was I thinking telling people to go to a Namdhari website... that would be doing Paap! Please see below what our leaders promised and passed as a resolution and let's judge ourselves how much we are following these resolutions.

The following is a report which was published in 'The Tribune' of the 18th October 1934

CONFERENCE OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GURU NANAK

20000 SIKHS GATHER IN SRI BHAINI SAHIB

Sri Bhaini Sahib, Oct. 1 5

A representative conference of all sects of the Sikhs, who believe in Guru Nanak Dev and his teaching, was convened at Sri Bhaini Sahib by Namdhari Darbar, Preparations were made on a scale and no pain was spared by the convenors to make the conference a big success. A spacious Pandal with a beautiful white gateway was constructed for the purpose. It was tastefully decorated and equipped with loud speakers; Special arrangements were made for the distinguished visitors. Numbering several hundreds and a big city of camps extended all around the small village of Bhaini Sahib. Suitable arrangements were made at Ludhiana for arranging conveyance of the Intending visitors, as Bhaini Sahib, the religious seat of Namdhari Sikhs, is situated at about fifteen miles from Ludhiana and is of great historical importance being the last abode of Shri Guru Ram Singh who is regarded 12th Guru of the Sikhs by his followers and was deported by the British Government in 1872. Over 20.000 men and women joined the conference. Several kitchens were running day and night to

for everybody. Besides Namdharis, Akalis Nirmalas. Udhasis. Sewa Panthis. Nihangs. Sahijdharis. Adanshahis, almost all-different sects who traced their cult from the teachings of Sri Adi-Granth Sahib responded to the invitation. Leading members of the Chief

Khalsa Diwan, Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Commiftee. Shiromani Akali Dal, Central Akali Dal. Udasin Mahan Mandal, Nirmal Mahan Mandal and other responsible bodies were specially invited.

PRESIDENTS' PROCESSION.

The President-elect was received by members of Namdhari Darbar, and prominent Sikh leaders outside the village and was taken on foot in a big procession to the Panda!. The procession was headed by Seven Jathas of Namdharis and followed the command of Sardar Atma Singh of Rawalpindi presented added great beauty to the procession. On reaching the Pandal. Sant Inder Singh Chakrawarti explained the aims and objects of the conference after which the prominent members retired to Hari Mandar for holding the Subjects Committee meeting.

Heated discussions continued for over two hours. The aims and the objects for which the conference was convened were discussed at length and everyone aftempted to praise it in his own way; Professor Jodh Singh of Chief Khalsa Diwan, Bhai Nidhan Slngh Alam Namdhari Darbar and Sant Kishan Singh of Nirmal Mahan Mandal and Sardar Dalip Slngh Vice-President. local Gurdwara Committee. Amritsar took leading part in the discussions. The aims and objects were worded as follows: "that the idea of convening the conference is to unite different sects of the Sikhs who believe in Adi Granth and Dasam Granth.

The Following resolutions were passed

1. That this conference requests all sects of the Sikhs that the preaching of

Gurbani be their foremost duty in their Jathas at their own seats.

2. That all preachers, missionaries, musicians. Editors and leaders should feel their responsibility and should only do constructive work and not destructive work.

3. That the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, local Gurdwaras Parbandhak Committees and other Sikh Societies be requested they should always take fittest persons from any sect for the post of a Granthi, preacher or other responsible office-bearer and they should particularly appoint fit persons of that sect in whose possession that particular Gurdwara was before its being taken over by the Gurdwara Parbhandhak Committee.

4. That in order to save the situation from any legal technicalities and achieve, unity in the house of the Guru all pending cases relating to Gurdwara other than historical Gurdwaras filed under section 7, of the Gurdwara Act should be given up.

The first sitting of the Subjects Committee was over after about 2 1/2 hours when the members attended 'the open session. Sant Inder Singh Chakarwarti, Chairman of the Reception Committee, read his address, wherein he thanked the delegates and the visitors for responding to the invitation and explained the aims and the objects for which the conference was convened. It was the genuine desire of His Holiness Maharaj Guru Partap Singh Ji, head of the Namdhari's, that all sects of the Sikhs believing in Guru Granth Sahab and Guru Nanak Dev should respect each other and remove all differences, which were damaging the Sikh cause. Party spirit among the followers of Guru Nanak was the chief cause of split

This Holiness, the Bhai Sahab Bhai Arjan Singh Chief of Bagarian (photo below). President of the Conference, read his brief address in which the need for co-operation among all the sects of the Sikhs was stressed and it was pointed out that unless this was achieved any further progress was out of question. Any discussion on political question was seriously avoided.

The proceedings of the first day ended after the addresses were over.

Courtesy:

The Tribune, 18th October 1934

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When one becomes so inflexible one becomes breakable.

Instead of glorifying the piar that bounds us together these people try to alienate the differences. This in my opinion, is only to reinforce ones own bigoted inflexible ideology. It is not enough that one succeeds but others must be wrong and fail as well.

The lord is limitless his creation is limitless. Yet these people spend their lives championing and policing their own limits at the expense of others.

Chatanga, I see you have Shiva as an avatar. What a contradiction.

Let me tell you a story, One day Shiva and Parvati lay in deep intimacy, She turns to speak to Shiva she says

“You are spiritual yet you dance, drink, eat flesh, instead of saints you sit with demons, you smear ashes from funeral piers, you eat and drink out of a skull, you don’t even wear clothes!”

Even Parvatis Father Duksha had always seen Shiva as unruly, unorthodox and even demonic.

Shiva replied “If it is created it is sacred, there is a difference between morality and spirituality. Who defined my actions as evil and unmoral? Only your own limitations”

Chatanga, You may want to revise your avatar.

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and then Shiv Ji said.. "let there be funk"

and a disco ball appeared spreading light around the entire creation multi coloured light, and he began to dance his dance of joy.

Moral of the story is, just dance in the loving charan of akaal purakh and all will be "funky" :D

but yeh I like points raised by the dancing warrior dude, and fatehsingh.

Fatehsingh do you have the actual article from the tribune scanned in or something or is it just a reference from some other source? Im not trying to imply your source is inaccurate it would just be nice to have a copy of that article, maybe freed can help maybe the dancing nekkid man can help, who knows ?

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dont get too hung up on the avatar. i like the picture and the ones of chandi were unsuitable for my avatar. what exactly am i contradicting here i dont know. tell me and i will remove it.

once again back to the issue of sitting at the same level. Why cant this apply to the sangat. Why cant we all sit on chairs in the darbar and raise the palki by about 2 feet more, so Guru Jee is still at a higher level? Then we are are sitting at a equal level and no disrespect is hapnin towards Guru Ji. Sensible answers plz.

Dynamic , what do you think Nihang Baba Santa Singh Ji's prefernce would be ether floor or tables?

chatanga

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My opinion of Baba Santa Singh Jis preference, currently he is old and I would be quite amazed to see him sit on a floor, especially with crossed legs. As indicated by Kam in his recent post they currently need help to sit and eat.

If your asking what I think they would tell the panth to do, well i'd assume it would be sit on the floor if you can.

but im not disagreeing with the floor sitting im trying to be a devils advocate and highlight the problem of the fanatics using crappy justifications to draw their lines.

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I don't think there is anything wrong with being a "Sikh" Fanatic, I think the subject is incorrectly titled. I am sure most people on this forum, and this thread and fanatical about the true path and Sat-Guru's teachings and jeevans.

Conversation here seems to in be in the most part, that they are completely wrong or justified.

As with everthing else in life surely there is a middle ground?

I'm not denying that there are utter rude idiots out there, I have been disgusted by the Namdhari vindication I have seen on you tube with commentry by an uneducated, unreligious guy who is apparently running the campaign (AK47?). This campaign is obviously a complete waste of time and has no basis.

But at the same time, there are people who do beadbi, like carrying Maharaj around in an old suitacase to akhand paaths, and akhand-paaths at newly opened off-licences, drinking on Gurdwara premises, taking Maharaj to a hotel (where waiters walk aroung Maharaj with shoes on and hair uncovered, smoke, and meat/sharab is prepared/kept in the adjoining room). We can probably learn more than a thing or two about the holyness and simplicity of Sikh marriage from Namdhari's.

I think we need to be logical about this and look at these things case by case, I am glad that these hypocrites and faithless people are being identified, but there is more than one way to put on pressure and educate people than resorting to violence and insult.

Also, where beadbi is identified, responsible mature religious elders should lead in conversing and deciding if it is actually beadbi, or just a slight cultural difference, which has been tolerated in the past by the panth, and so should continue to be so. This would also get around the problem of youngsters insulting elders.

I know that there are genuine Gursikh who attend some of these campaigns which relate to genuine insults to Sikhi, and many simply protest by way of sitting down and doing naam simran, we shouldn't bundle everyone together.

I would advise, where there is a problem and a youngster knows of it, speak to elder calm Gursikh from other Gurdwarai or ven other towns, arrange for them to come down and discuss the issue with the accused, and give the accused a chance to explain.

Where there is blatant beadbi, and it's very stubborn and foolish people that are responsible, then we need to let panj pyare decide action.

There is tolerance but their is also insult, which has not been tolerated in the past i.e. Ram Rai and the Masands.

One thing I personally hate, but have never done anything about, is the Ramgharia practice of calling Gurdwara property/halls, Jassa Singh Ramgharia hall, and renting it for parties, where drinking, meat, and smoking (toilets and outside) occurs regularly.

Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgharias misl was known to be very devotional, his sons were both respected as jeevan valai Gursikh, to the point where Ranjit Singh (M) used to call Sardaar Jodh Singh, Baba ji,even though he was his junior. Today we honour their courage and bhagti by naming a boozing hall after them, charming, and geat promotion of the Ramgharia Misl's valour.

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I understand that old people infirm people are unable to sit on the floor, so having tables for them is nothing wrong. However provisions are not made for both in some gurdawaras i have seen. In most you sit on tables only, in a few you sit on floor only, and a few have provisions for tables and floor. what are your4 experinces on this?

chatanga

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Also, where beadbi is identified, responsible mature religious elders should lead in conversing and deciding if it is actually beadbi, or just a slight cultural difference, which has been tolerated in the past by the panth, and so should continue to be so. This would also get around the problem of youngsters insulting elders.

That is the crux of the matter... Thank God someone has figured it out before it's completely converted into a langar-hall debate!

These children know next to nothing about Sikhism. Ask Kam1825 what Sikhism is and how vast and diverse it is yet all the leaders respect each other and have genuine understanding for each other. The post from the Tribune newspaper I posted above is not a 'once in a blue moon' occurring. A great number of respected Sikh leaders, Ragis, Sants, Politicians, 90% of retired Akal Takhat Jathedars go to Sri Bhaini Sahib. Satguruji has great love for Nirmala Sants of past and today and a grand meeting where all different personalities from virtually the entire Nirmala Panth has occurred at Sri Bhaini Sahib at least twice in my knowledge. Yogi Bhajan, whose chele at Sikhnet.com today will not allow the word 'Namdhari' to ruin their pretty website, used to go to Bhaini Sahib with his followers when he was alive and similarly invited Satguruji to his dera in USA on numerous occasions.

I can go on and on how Namdharis are today, after the British has packed its bags back to UK, are respected and accepted at all Sikh Takhats. Ragi Baljeet Singh is recognized as a Sikh Shiromani Ragi and awarded by the SGPC. President of Sant Samaj, Baba Sarbjot Singh Bedi was in Bhaini Sahib just a few months ago.

Who are these little children born in the last 20 years to question who is a Sikh and who is not? Like T-Singh pointed out it's all about 'never forget 84' and 'hurry up and grow hair!'... what purpose does any of this serve is beyond me.. I always thought Sikhi means 'Fareeda Bure Da Bhala Kar Gusa Mann Na Hatai. Ehi Rog Na Lagei Pallai Sabh Kich Pai.'.. but apparently these fanatics haven't done Granth Sahib's path to this page yet.. hopefully they will one day before it's too late..

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Saw this on a website . Seeeing as we have been discussingr4g activities what are your views on this. A point has been made about youngsters geting angry and a need for respectable elders to take the main stand so elders wont be abused. Serious replies plz.

Respect For Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Campaign

Press Release

16th July 2006, Watford, Hertfordshire.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Over a period of 2 months members of the British Sikh Community have been in discussion with the a group of so-called “Sikh†individuals from Watford who hold monthly diwans (Sikh religious gathering) at the Multi Racial Community Centre Hall in Watford. After numerous meetings with the Community Centre, Hertfordshire Police & Commission for Racial Equality (Hertfordshire), a small faction of this group of individuals were still adamant to proceed with taking Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Sikh Holy Religious Scriptures revered as the embodiment of God) to the Community Centre.

As per the Hukumnama (Order) of Sri Akal Takht Sahib (Sikh Seat of Sovereignty in Punjab, India) Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot be taken to environments where alcohol, meat and tobacco are served and consumed. These individuals refused to work towards having the diwan at Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Watford (local Sikh Temple) for the reasons that they wanted to run the Sikh Gurdwara in Watford but were not voted in as Committee members.

On 31 July 2006 over 80 Sikhs from around the United Kingdom gathered to peacefully protest at the Multi-Racial Community Centre, Watford and prevent the Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji from being taken into the complex.

After offering prayers at the Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Watford, the Sangat (Sikh Congregation) proceeded towards the Multi-Racial Community Centre. The Sangat continued attempts to persuade the faction of the “Sikh†individuals at MRCC committee to adhere to Sikh Rehit Maryada (Sikh Code of Conduct) and re-arrange the diwan to the local Gurdwara.

Unknowingly to the Sikh Congregation who had gathered to peacefully protest, the Saroop (embodiment) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was in a metal suitcase placed on the front seat of a car that was parked on the road opposite the Community Centre. This was deeply offensive, deceitful and extremely distressing not to mention one of the most disrespectful acts that could be carried out in the Sikh faith, as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is never transported in a suitcase as a mere “object†of the Sikh Religion. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the eternal Guru of the Sikhs.

Once the gathered Sikh congregation became aware of this extremely hurtful and upsetting act, the shocked congregation sat around the car reciting prayers for over an hour. In that time the culprits who had carried out one of the most insulting acts in the Sikh religion could not come out of the car.

Present at this protest was Hertfordshire Police and representatives of Commission of Racial Equality (Hertfordshire). They all gave in to the conviction of the gathered Sikh congregation and agreed to their demand that five Sikhs will take the Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to Watford Gurdwara and the diwan will not take place in the MMRC.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib was respectfully removed from the suitcase and re-clothed. Prayers were performed and the Sikh Congregation asked for forgiveness for any wrongdoing. The Saroop was respectfully taken to the Sachkhand (resting place for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) of Watford Gurdwara.

Further resolve was achieved when the “Sikh†individuals at MRCC committee verbally promised, in the presence of the Police & CRE representatives that this diwan, and therefore any other insulting act that would offend Sikhs, will never take place again in Watford. Also a young member representing this committee attended Watford Gurdwara after the incident and apologised for their behaviour and re-iterated that the diwan will never take place again. However, the resolve by Police & CRE intermediaries included a written statement promised from the individuals that diwan will not take place. The individuals must produce this documentation to give confidence that any disrespect towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and offence to the British Sikh community will not happen again.

The British Sikh Community will not allow individuals to exploit the Sikh Religion as a means of settling personal conflicts. Once again, the British Sikh Community has shown their love for their father Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The elders and youth who were present on the protest conducted themselves as true Khalsa and upheld the ideals of the Sikh Religion. With Guruji's blessings the British Sikh Community continues to uphold respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

GurFateh!!

-- ------------------

Respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Campaign

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Unknowingly to the Sikh Congregation who had gathered to peacefully protest, the Saroop (embodiment) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was in a metal suitcase placed on the front seat of a car that was parked on the road opposite the Community Centre. This was deeply offensive, deceitful and extremely distressing not to mention one of the most disrespectful acts that could be carried out in the Sikh faith, as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is never transported in a suitcase as a mere “object” of the Sikh Religion. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the eternal Guru of the Sikhs.

What is that all about? 99.9% of all Granth Sahibs in houses and Gurdwaras abroad today came in respectfully-packed suitcases. Seems like someone's trying to incite fury..

To me personally I never viewed the mainstream Sikhs as having much respect for Granth Sahib anyways.. sorry but I still don't know how many pages or what parts of it they consider Bani and what is not but that I can careless... so it is great that something is being done to educate within the mainstream Sikh community itself... but just don't take it overboard and get crazy/overly fanatic.. what's next? people can't sit in their houses with their backs turned to the direction of Singh Sabha? Like Dynamic pointed out.. lines should not be drawn willy nilly.. 'never forget 84', 'never forget 84'.. I say 'never forget how you got into this country!'

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Flight of the holy scriptures

Sikh community arranges mass airlift

Books travel from India to Brampton

LESLIE SCRIVENER

FAITH AND ETHICS REPORTER

On a typical day, SkyLink Aviation's workhorse aircraft deliver troops, trucks and medical supplies to the world's hot spots. But this Sunday, one of its charter planes will touch down in Toronto on a delicate, sacred mission: delivering 149 Sikh holy books, each occupying its own linen-draped seat and each on its own pillow.

The scriptures, known as Guru Granth Sahib, are accorded the same honour due a living teacher or guru. The airlift from the Sikh Golden Temple in Amritsar — the only place in the world where the scriptures are officially published — marks what's believed to be the first mass air delivery of scriptures. In the past, the books came to Canada one by one, some reverently on the laps of immigrating Sikhs, some in the luggage compartment, which caused distress among the pious.

A Sikh student recalls stowing his oversized copy of the Guru Granth Sahib in his rucksack on a flight from London to New Delhi and being reprimanded by the Sikh religious authority when he arrived in Amritsar.

"They said I had shown great disrespect. The Granth should not be in the luggage compartment but treated like any human being, but more so — as a guru, with great reverence," said the Toronto man, who asked not to be named.

The books leave the Golden Temple Saturday with pomp and ceremony. Roads will be closed; there will be a motorcade, military band and ministers of state.

The $235,000 flight has been funded by donations from the Sikh community. On board the Russian-built Tupelov 154 will be five devout Canadian Sikhs, who will cover their heads and go barefoot as they would in a Sikh place of worship, which is called a gurdwara, meaning door to enlightenment.

The men will fast on the 24-hour journey, which includes Moscow and Iceland stopovers; no alcohol will be on board.

Surjit Babra, chair and president of Toronto-based SkyLink, will be on the airplane, too. "This is a first historic flight," Babra said yesterday from New Delhi, en route to Amritsar. "We fly everywhere for a lot of humanitarian reasons, but this is a very emotional thing for me to do this for the first time for my guru. I feel blessed to serve."

The books arrive at 8 a.m. Sunday at Pearson airport, marking this year's 400th anniversary of the compilation of the scriptures and shortly before Vaisakhi celebrations, April 13, which remember the foundation of the Sikh brotherhood, or Khalsa, in 1699.

Once landed, the books will be escorted under the protection of parasols to three buses, where, again, each book will have its own seat. Drummers and singers will join in the procession.

Thousands are expected to welcome the scriptures at the offices of Sacha Sauda, a Sikh charitable organization on Steeles Ave. E. in Brampton, which distributes religious and historical literature without charge. The Guru Granth Sahibs will be given to local gurdwara and individual homes.

Plans to drop flower petals from a helicopter along the processional route were cancelled this week because police had security concerns. Sikh scriptures are the overarching authority in the Sikh faith, says T. Sher Singh, community leader and Guelph lawyer. "Gurus are not worshipped, but they are emulated only in what they teach. They are not as important as the message. As in the Christian sense, the word is everything."

As Guru Gobind Singh, the 10th and last of the great Sikh teachers, lay dying in 1708, he ordered that there would be no human successor after him. Faithful Sikhs would look only to the divinely inspired scriptures for guidance.

The Guru Granth Sahib is unusual as a religious authority because it also contains poetry and devotional hymns from Islam and Hinduism, the dominant religions in India when the Sikh faith evolved. The genesis of the faith lies in revelations to Guru Nanak, a pious herdsman charged by God to deliver his message.

This mission is unusual for SkyLink's Babra and his partner Walter Arbib, the company's chief executive officer. The duo, while preparing for the airlift of holy books, are finishing off transporting medical equipment and food materials to Haiti for Canada's armed forces and preparing to move United Nations workers into Sudan, anticipating that a peace treaty will soon be signed there.

They've organized humanitarian relief flights to the most troubled regions of the world — Central America after earthquakes, Kosovo during war — often with only a few hours to get their planes in the air. SkyLink was the first western airline allowed to land in North Korea, to deliver potato seeds during the famine there.

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Personally I think the 'lets find a middle ground', 'isolated incidents', 'lets not rock the boat' mentality has in a way been a contributing factor to this.

The roots of all this type of thinking run much deeper than people are willing to give credit for. How does it become the case that more than a handful of young people become so vicious at any perceived slur against their own identity? Look at the whole sarbloh thing. It questionned all those accumulated assumptions about what Sikhi is for many post-84 (and post-1925 types) and the response....sustained callous death threats. Now in my mind, that is a greater paap than anything else. The epitomy of total hankar...BUT the response to the counter-criticisms was most telling, 'this is what the great singhs of the past did, they 'dealt with' those trying to destroy the panth'.

And this is part of the real issue for me. When anyone suggests that I accept the use of violence as a Sikh, I reject it. I accept only the use of compassion. A long-gone idiot attempting to blow up 1000 innocent people (or an airplane) should be killed 'when all other means have failed'. To allow 1000 innocent people to die is violence, to act against it at your own expense is dharmic compassion. How do you know if its compassionate force? Dharma.

What many youngsters are being conditioned into is the blind acceptance that anyone who uses violence for Sikh political or doctrinal ends is not only justified but 'great' and to be emulated. I feel revulsion everytime I see Manochahal's photo up in a Gurdwara knowing what he did later on, or reading the blind acceptance of individuals who sympathised or took part in killing and maiming innocent people.

This root of misinformation being tackled would change some of it, but not all. When its popular thinking to claim that because a) the Guru was a prophet B) revealing the 'teesra panth' c) Sikhi rejects other faiths, how can they progress (all three components here having been distorted). Suraj Prakash (I think) contains that great explanation of Guru Gobind Singh explaining to Bahadur Shah what the teesra panth is, implying a panth in which one can go beyond claiming God to be their own!

I've heard this 'whats wrong with being fanatical about Sikhi?' argument, and with the greatest respect and in my own humble opinion, its a crap one! (Its a bit like saying 'I'm not racist but...' although it does however depend on your definition of 'Sikhi' admittedly). There is everything wrong with being regarded as fanatical about Sikhi! As this fanaticism is practiced by many it conditionally ends in bigotry time after time. Because the consituent of most people's sikhi in the UK is a hierarchical model with 'amritdharis' at the top. If you can't see as much value in someone with cut hair with the same beliefs, how the hell are you going to see the same value in someone who believes in different views? In fact in my opinion and from my own experience, it is in being measured, in keeping the mind clear that we make nominal progression on the long and daunting path! Yet being obsessive about Sikhi is a bit like walking through a beautiful rainforest with your walkman on looking at your feet...if there is all this obsessive chatter going on, you fail to recognise the truth in every second of every minute which is whats all about isn't it? Or am I going all airy fairy again?! When we adopt all these practices and virtues its result is not fanaticism. Its the oppossite, open compassionate unified vision arising from vivek...samdrishti. To see and obssess over difference is not conducive, to impose black and white dogma plain suicide!

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Yes Shaheediyan I am aware of that ONE (1) incident when a plane was chartered to fly in Granth Sahibs. And that makes up the 0.1% of the Granth Sahibs abroad.

Also that article you pasted has MAJOR BEADBIS!..

The books leave the Golden Temple Saturday with pomp and ceremony. Roads will be closed; there will be a motorcade, military band and ministers of state.

Referring to Granth Sahib as 'books' is beadbi!

The men will fast on the 24-hour journey, which includes Moscow and Iceland stopovers; no alcohol will be on board.

Fasting is anti-Sikhism and therefore beadbi!

These are the kind of things these youth call 'beadbi' and that is the root of all problems. More and more ways to show outward, almost Moorti-Puja (another great maha beadbi!) mentality are being invented and developed with anyone objecting or pointing out their irrelevancies as a paapi.

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Dear veer T Singh Ji,

My comment re being fanatical about Sikhi was refering to Sikhi in it's true, original, universal sense. And I don't beleive there is anything wrong with that, for these "true" fanatics encompass all those one sighted truely enlightened souls from all faiths and walks of life who see opportunity for man through his actions and not his narrowed belief. The true Gurmukh and Sikh is found and recognised through his love, seva and acceptance of all, not through his religion.

The reason I posted that sentance is because I feel insulted when people keep insinuating Sikhi is some dirty thing to be fanatical about, if some people don't understand what Sikhi means, that does not mean the rest of us should use the word cautiously due to it's now common interpretation.

Dear veer Fateh Singh Ji,

In continuation of the above, we must also be tolerant and respectful of other peoples beliefs and traditions, "mainstream" Sikhs respect and treat Maharaj with much satkaar and their are loving traditions that are followed when Maharaj is to travel, this is not a narrow minded inpractical view of the "mainstream" only, but all puratan Sikh sampradas. The same way that the majority of members on this forum tolerate and or respect/accept your right to your beliefs, you should do the same, and not keep having little digs at mainstream practices, which the majority perform out of love and devotion also. I am not going to get into a debate about this and pray you will understand and accept what I am saying.

If Sikhs are offended by seeing their Guru being carried around in a suitcase, when it is entirely possible to transport Guru Ji with all due respect (short car journey), then please don't be surprised.

We need to seperate acknowledgement of lack of respect from the stupid and offensive actions of a few uneducated and mislead youth.

These issues do need to be dealt with, but in a mature manner.

The point of posting the above plane article was to show what is possible if people have respect and resource, in the past resources like this didn't exist, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to improve and implement respect further than was previously possible.

Vaheguru

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You have missed my point completely Shaheediyan.

My point was why are these youths calling the act of transporting Granth Sahib in a metal suitcase a 'disrespect' or 'beadbi' or as they put it 'the most offensive act'? Was anyone placing a foot on the the suitcase? Was the suitcase dirty? Did the suitcase contain foul language on it? Was the Granth Sahib physically damaged in any way?

You pointed out that Granth Sahib could have clearly been respected more.. well I can also say those people who did the air lifting did beadbi by fasting because only the Tyar-Bar-Tyar and ready to fight can guard the Granth Sahib.. not people with no food for 24 hours.. Was there Dhoop, Deep in the plane? If not then I can claim that as lack of respect as well. Was there Aarti of the Granth Sahib done after reaching Canada? Why not? It could and should have been done.. In other words there is no limit to love.. and I understand and get that completely..

But you need to understand that is not the point here.. the point being discussed here is these little children view the act of 'neutrality' as acts of 'beadbi'.. which is nonsense.. I have never heard in my life that an act of placing a Granth Sahib or Shasters in a trunk or bag is a sign of disrespect.. these little kids parents or grand parents themselves probably brought Granth Sahibs in suitcases when they migrated from india.. y don't they protest against them? If it is such a huge beadbi and 'the most offensive act' towards their Guru why did they do it?

How about Gutkas? Isn't that the next step? Should a Gutka no longer be caried in a pocket or bag? After all the same Banis that are in Gutkas are in the Granth Sahib.. where will this fanaticism eventually lead them to?.. I'll bet my last dime on Afghanistan!

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