Islam rejects reincarnation?

[amardeep]

Does the following verse of the Quran not say that reincarnation does not exist?

When death comes to one of them, he says, "My Lord, send me back again. so that perhaps I may act rightly regarding the things I failed to do!" No indeed! It is just words he utters. Before them there is an interspace until the Day they are raised up. (Surat al-Muminun: 99-100)

this verse says people only have one chance, and there is no new chance after this life.

when sufi's belive in reincarnation, what sources do they use to back it up?

They will not taste any death there-except for the first one. He will safeguard them from the punishment of the Blazing Fire. A favour from your Lord. That is the Great Victory. (Surat ad-Dukhan: 56-57)

[Kam1825]

Good point, you have brought up there. i hope for some answeres, although all the sufi's that i have ever spoke to still deny that their is such a thing as reincarnation. A group of muslims who belong to the sect called the Druze are the only ones that i know who believe in reincarnations and the others dont. Even sects such as the Bah'ia do not believe in reincarnation to the best of my knowledge.

Does anyone know which sects of Islam accept the notion of reincarnation?

[amardeep]

yes all sufis i have spoken to, and also on sufi forums, all deny reincarnation, and says that whoever belives in this, is out of the fold of Islam...

i was wondering. how can one say that the Quran is a book from God, when it contradicts sikhi on such a fundemental issue? what will happen after death? only one thing can be true... earlier i thought the "grave" in islam was a metafor for a body, and when muslims say "the soul will suffer for its deeds in the grave" it means that it would suffer in a new body.. but now i wonder

i hope someone can answar this

[Kam1825]

i believe all religious texts are true for their followers. i do believe that Islam and te Quran are created fro the followers to follow with faith. IF they are to do so then they will not enter another life.

I see al religions as true just some take longer to get to god then others. A metaphor of what i mean would be to take each religion to be a person and God to be the peak of everest. If you asked all of them to get to the top of the mountain then thall all will by different tracks and route. Some will arrive at the peak quicker and some slower but all wil get there!

[amardeep]

so the question is :

is God liying to the muslims when he talks about "punishment of the grave" ?

[shaheediyan]

A true (blessed) Muslim, Sikh, Hindu... would not be concerned with such matters. When one develops the true pain of seperation from the creator, even concepts such as swarg narag, heavan hell, reincarnation become insignificant, the aim solely to be united with the eternal groom, this aim is revealed and felt when one experiences true Ishq.

This is what blessed Sufi's believe. Academic Sufis, same as academic Sikhs, get stuck in the bottle neck of "what happens after death".

[amardeep]

that is true indeed, but the religous books have still told us about the afterlife, and one of them rejects the other, it must mean that only one of these books can be true..

[vinegar]

no it doesnt

it could be that they will be judged and treated according to their rehit, and that a follwer of Islam will either go to hell or exist in some other state until the 'end'

[fatehsingh]

Good analogy vinegar.. u certainly know stuff about Rahit (since u used the word) and u certainly have a jeevan (since u r most likely alive).. how would u like to put those talents to work? Join the SRP and see the world (or atleast the part of the city ur assigned to)!

just to be fair.. so christians must b extremely lucky.. all they have to do is 'say' that 'we believe in jesus, our lord and saviour, the son of God' and they r 'guaranteed' heaven.. that is their rahit afterall... no need to wake up early.. no need to pray 3 times a day... just go to church every sunday and 'pay' to confess and get ur sins removed.. Bill Gates will probably get the room right next to God!

[guv]

death is an illusion

[amardeep]

does Gurbani anywhere talk about what will happen to those who belive in punishment of the grave?

[Kam1825]

an article i found on islam and reincarnation

Reincarnation in Islam

“The Hindu belief in reincarnation is well known. But it is not known that the Koran refers as kafir (deviant) anyone who doesn't believe in the possibility of rebirth. Not many in India have perhaps come across the verses of the great mystic, Hazrat Jalal-ud-Deen Rumi, describing the process of evolution through reincarnation - from mineral and plant to animal and man and then to angelhood and beyond. Take the verses from the world famous Masnawi by Hazrat:

I died as mineral and became a plant,

I died as plant and rose to animal,

I died as animal and I was man.

Why should I fear?

When was I less by dying?

Yet once more I shall die as man,

To soar with angels blest;

But even from angelhood I must pass on ...

Another great mystic, Mansur al-Hallaj, famous for his formulation, Anal Haq (I am the truth: Aham Brahmo Asmi) wrote:

Like the herbage

I have sprung up many a time

On the banks of flowing rivers.

For a hundred thousand years

I have lived and worked

In every sort of body.

The Koran itself seems quite clear: "And you were dead, and He brought you back to life. And He shall cause you to die, and shall bring you back to life, and in the end shall gather you unto Himself." (2:28). The words "you were dead" can only mean that they had lived before becoming dead. And the words "in the end shall gather you unto Himself" could very well mean the attainment of moksha (release) rather than an eternal life in heaven or hell. Those who disagree, however, contend that "dead" is very commonly used for non-living things. "It does not necessarily mean that you were alive before being a non-living thing or dead." (S Abdullah Tariq in Islamic Voice, February 2002)

Responding to my published view that the concept of reincarnation may be a part of Islamic teaching as well, Tariq also quotes the following verses in support of his contention that reincarnation is not an aspect of Islamic teaching: "Every living being shall taste death, then unto us you will be returned." (29:57)"Until when death comes to a wrongdoer, he will say: 'Lord let me go back, that I may do good works in the world I have left behind'. Never! It is only a word which he will speak. Behind them, there shall stand a barrier till the day of resurrection." (23:99-100)"And spend of that with which we have provided you before death befalls any of you and he says: 'Reprieve me my Lord a while that I may give in charity and be among righteous'. But Allah reprieves no soul when its term expires and Allah has knowledge of all your actions." (63:10-11)"They [the unbelievers] will say: "Our Lord! Twice you have caused us death and twice you have given us life. We now confess our sins. Is there any way out [now]'?" (40:11)

But Tariq and other critics seem to be confusing reincarnation with transmigration of souls, which are not necessarily the same concepts. He goes on: "The theory of transmigration of souls popularly known as avagaman or punarjanam is non-existent even in the Hindu scriptures proclaimed as the word of God by them. Following are the declarations of two well-renowned scholars of Hindu philosophy. The rishis [seers] of the Vedic era were not aware of punarjanam (Rahul Sankrityayan, Darshan Digdarshan, Kitab Mahal Allahabad, 1992, page 388.

"In the ancient Indian literature, Chandogya [author of an Upanishad] was the first to talk of punarjanam ie besides parloka [the world hereafter] a being takes birth in this loka [this world] also according to deeds. (ibid P.403) There are dozens of Koran-like descriptions of heaven in Vedas, but at no place do the Vedas talk of humans taking rebirth in inferior moulds according to deeds. Much later, the philosophers of the Upanishads presented the idea of transmigration of souls."

Thus the debate goes on. One thing, however, is certain: most of the greatest saints Islam has produced believed in reincarnation and it does constitute a part of many Muslims' belief system. This is primarily caused by a reluctance on the part of many Muslims to believe that God will merely reward or punish human beings on the basis of a lifetime in which they may not have received the guidance necessary to improve their conduct. That God will just be reconciled to their being sent to an eternal life in heaven or hell without their being given another chance to improve themselves becomes a proposition difficult to believe.â€

Reincarnation in Islam

Sultan Shahin, Asia Times Online, Dec 25, 2003

Amardeep singh i see you have had this discussion on yanabi.com

[Mystical]

I believe Reincarnation is a form of hell for me.

If you were to find God within yourself would you ever want to be separated again? Spending 8.4 Million lives without him?

[amardeep]

there are tens of verses contradicting reincarnation and those verses from the posted article in the Quran

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

You can never see God because of maya, a person can only see God through maya. There are people close to him and people far. Everything in the world is imagination. Therefore teachings that point towards God are and can be contradictory. Reincarnation has no reality except as an imagined idea. Judgement day is the same. But following a tradition these ideas are vital crutches to become close to God. Without these supports a seeker would fall into the ocean of entaglements that is the world. For support faith is essential, have faith in the teachings of the Guru's and you will be on the way to negotiating lifes ocean. Faith in one belief does not mean an opposing belief is invalidated. It is that you choose to follow a certain imaginary path to go somewhere that cannot be known. How can one imaginary way be correct and another wrong, i cannot say your thinking process your whole mind memory etc. is wrong because it is different to mine, that would be absurd. They are both valid.

[Guest Javanmard]

Vâhigurûjîkâkhâlsâ Vâhigurûjîkîfateh

What Islam is concerned the belief in tanasokh or reincarnation is restricted to the ghali movements of Shi'ism. The ghali or ghulat movements of Shi'ism are those who declare that Imam Ali (as) is the manifested aspect of Khuda or wajhullah (Face of God in Arabic). The names of the movements who believe in tanasokh are the following:

-the Alevi Shi'as of Turkey

-the Alawis of Syria and Lebanon

-the Ahl e Haqq (People of the Truth) of Iranian Kurdistan

-the Nizari Ismailis whose Imam is the Maulana Shah Karim Agha Khan IV

-some Shi'a Sufi orders like the Ni'matullahi, Khaksar and Kubrawi.

-deriving from Ismailism but having become an independant religion: the Druze of Lebanon, Syria and Palestine.

-some rare mystics of the 12er Jafari school of Shi'ism

Needless to say that tanasokh is not accept in Sunnism or mainstream shari'a abiding 12er Jafari Shi'ism.

[amardeep]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh.

and welcome back JavanMard. i've missed you and your knowledge

the reason im asking these question, is that a had a debate with a few muslims friends, and i explained to them, that there is no contradiction between Islam and Sikhism, and that they have their law, and we have ours... both religions are true and sent by God....they then said that we have different rules...

i gave them the example of:

if i give permission for my first son to go outside at night, and i refuse the second son to do so, i have not contradicted myself, but rather given two different laws to two different sons.

they agreed on this..

the only issue that religions can not contradict each other on fundemental issues such as the Tawhid of God, the fact that there is a life after death etc. etc.

i have always thought that the issue of the grave was a metaphor in the Quran, and that it could also talk about reincarnation, but then he showed me that Islam rejects reincarnation, and says that if two religions contradict each other on fundemental issues, only one of them can be right.

thats why i started this topic..

[John]

If one ceases to take anotehr stance and view on this, it is that fact that both Religions are pointing towards God, for Indian Religions to step out of the Cycle of Rebirth, and for Muslims to attain Paradise and be correct in the hereafter, the fact remains that the cure is God. One must look at what these notions are pointing towards........Alllah, Ram. This one feels that no Religion will reject.

[Guest Javanmard]

Maulana Hazar Imam Shah Karim Agha Khan IV being the source of all knowledge in Islam knows better. And he says reincarnation is the right interpretation. Read the Ginans.

[amardeep]

so is there more than 12 infalible Imams in Islam?

yes i will try to get a copy of the ginans. thank you very much

[Guest Javanmard]

This is in Nizari Ismaili Shi'ism not in Ithna'shari Shi'ism.

[amardeep]

just a personal question:

do you regocnise (imam) Agha Khan as being a succesor of the 12 infalible Imams?

if so, does it not mean that the the last 2-3 imams are rejected as being Imams, as the the first Ismali Imam considers himself to be the succesor after Imam Musa

[Guest Javanmard]

My personal opinion is that both lines are legitimate, just like Jacob and Ismail succeeded Prophet Ibrahim (as). The two lineages fulfill different functions. But that's my opinion. But yes I believe Maulana Shah Karim Agha Khan IV is as legitimate as Imam Muhammad al Mahdi (fa). Needless to say that our Satgurus are the Ahluk Bayt min Hind announced in the hadiths of Imam Jafar as Sadiq (as). In fact Ismailis consider Krishna and Rama as previous Satguru Imams and the fact that our Satgurus descend from Satguru Imam Rama is only a confirmation of their legitimacy.

[amardeep]

that sounds interesting...

i found that gnostics of christianity, kabalah of jewism, and mystical branches of Islam all regocnise reinkarnation. it means that all mystical groups of the three law-giving religions of middle east recognice reinkarnation.

it gives me the impression that the Gurus brought the hidden deeper meaning of all religion and thats also why i think Gurbani tells hindues etc how to become better hindues.

[SAadmin]

great knowledge guys, please keep them coming. javanmard and amardeep singh have answered the question of reincarnation which i was also wondering for about a long time.