Some questions on Islam

[Kam1825]

I have a couple of questions on the faith of islam which i would like answering, i am sure that Javanmard or my old friend Tsingh will be able to answer these with great ease,

1) What is the relevance of the colour gree in Islam, alot of flags of pirs and outside Masjids have green flags. Is there a reason why this coulour is used?

2) What is the relevance of the crescent moon in all of the flags or any literature found on islam. What is the relevance of the moon to islam? Is this to do with the moon being worshiped in pre islam? A deity by the name of Allah from pre islam has been found and has the moon carved on it, is this the reason why the moon is represented as in pre islam it was worshipped in the name of allah. A picture should be attached to this thread of the pre islamic deity.

3) what is the reason for a muslim to undergo the circumcision, what is its historical relavance and spiritual relavance? What happens if one is not to undergo circumcison? Is this got some relevance to the patriarch Abraham?

4) Why do muslims shave their moustache? Where does this come from and in their history? What is the spiritual relavance?

5) DO muslims believe that Ali the son in law of the prophet mohammed and husband to fatima was born in the Kaaba? If so can you elaborate further?

6) Why did the prophet use the name of Allah as the greatest name for God rather then using a name that is from Pre Islam. In the same was Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the Sikhs use the Gurmantar of Waheguru which as far as i am aware was not used before the time of the Gurus?

7) What happens to a soul after a muslim dies according to their faith? If they do not believe that they will go to Heaven until the day of Judgement, what hapens til then?

8) As far as i am aware (which is little hence the reason for the questions) i am told that Islam rejects that Jesus died on the cross and another with a similar likeness was on the cross? If this is the case what happened to Jesus and who was this person who suffered on the cross? What sin did this other commit or what reason did this other have to suffer on the cross instead of the prophet jesus?

9) What is the relevance of the black stone in the corner of the Kaaba? Where has it come from? Has it been scientifically been tested to see what it is? Why is it covered in musk?

10) why was the original direction in which muslims prayed jeruselum and later changed to the Kaaba by the prophet?

11) Why did the prophet get flown on the Buraq (hope i have spelled it right) to Jeruselum and then ascend to heaven from there to meet the prophets? Why did he not ascend from the Kaaba if it is seen as the link to God by Muslims?

12) Did the prophet state that he was the last messanger from god and there would be no other after him as all muslims that i talk to say? if so then wha of our divine Gurus?

with these questions i am not trying to take the @@@@ just want to know and am genuinly interested

[Kam1825]

Hello can anyone answer these questions

[Kam1825]

Another couple of questions to add to the list which still remains unanswered. I'm guessing that is the way they will remain!!

13) Is King David revered as a prophet in islam? If so why when he did commit sin and broke the commandmants by commiting adultury with Bathsheba and killing Uriah the Hittite so that he could marry Bathsheba who later gave birth to King David's second son Soloman? How can one who commits sin and breaks the rules of God given to Moses be a prophet?

14) The islamic community claim to have rare relics of the prophets such as the staff of moses, the untensils of prophet abraham, the sword of king david and the turban of prophet joseph. Where have these items been since the times of each prophet to the creation of islam. Obviously the time of Moses and the patriarch abraham was over 1500 years before islam. Where were they during this time, why are these items not mentioned in any other writings before islam, such as during the times of christ, the gnostics, the gospals, the dead sea scrolls, etc? How can they really be the items of the prophets?

15) according to the quran it states that God created the Kaaba as the first mosque and 40 years later created the Al Aqsa mosque in Jeruselem. Why is the Kaaba not mentioned by any of the prophets after, including in the words of the gnostics. All of these were divine. Even if the excuse of 'all of the scriptures being tampered with' comes up then would not a community want to claim what is rightfully their heritage? If this was the first place of monothiestic reverance to God then obviously the later prophets would have gone back to reclaim it in the name of the Lord?

Im sure i will think of some more questions the more i read on islam.

[Kam1825]

Right i will give anyone on the forum a chance to answer these questions if they can.

Personally i dont think that anyone has the knowledge to do so, if that is the case i will take the questions to another forum for some help.

[amardeep]

i'll just answer with short answers

What is the relevance of the colour gree in Islam, alot of flags of pirs and outside Masjids have green flags. Is there a reason why this coulour is used?

as far as i have been told, there is none! its just cultural, the same way the crecent moon has nothing to do with Islam, and is just a symbol that the turks adopted during their rule of the so called "Chaliphate"

2) What is the relevance of the crescent moon in all of the flags or any literature found on islam. What is the relevance of the moon to islam?

answered above. the ottomans took the symbol when they saw it in a christian church. the muslims follow the moon-calendar.

Is this to do with the moon being worshiped in pre islam? A deity by the name of Allah from pre islam has been found and has the moon carved on it, is this the reason why the moon is represented as in pre islam it was worshipped in the name of allah.

it was called Allat, and it is different from Allah.. Allah means The God.. the one and only from whom there is no second. read surat al iklas.

3) what is the reason for a muslim to undergo the circumcision, what is its historical relavance and spiritual relavance? What happens if one is not to undergo circumcison? Is this got some relevance to the patriarch Abraham?

i have asked many muslims about this and they say it is due to hygiene but i dont think that is true.

as far as i remember, God tested Abraham by telling him to cut off his foreskin to see how loyal he was

4) Why do muslims shave their moustache? Where does this come from and in their history? What is the spiritual relavance?

it is from the sunnah of the prophet. he told them to trim their mustaches.

5) DO muslims believe that Ali the son in law of the prophet mohammed and husband to fatima was born in the Kaaba? If so can you elaborate further?

Ali was born there. i have not heard anything about Fatima Zehra beinig born there.

6) Why did the prophet use the name of Allah as the greatest name for God rather then using a name that is from Pre Islam. In the same was Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the Sikhs use the Gurmantar of Waheguru which as far as i am aware was not used before the time of the Gurus?

Allah means The God... before Muhamad came, meccans use to worship hundreds of Gods.. he destroyed them all, as did Abraham, and made them worship the one and only.

7) What happens to a soul after a muslim dies according to their faith? If they do not believe that they will go to Heaven until the day of Judgement, what hapens til then?

Punishment of the grave. either you taste a small part of paradise, or a small part of hell, according to your actions in this life.

Cool As far as i am aware (which is little hence the reason for the questions) i am told that Islam rejects that Jesus died on the cross and another with a similar likeness was on the cross? If this is the case what happened to Jesus and who was this person who suffered on the cross? What sin did this other commit or what reason did this other have to suffer on the cross instead of the prophet jesus?

the man was one of those that hunted Jesus. Jesus body was killed and Allah raised him to himself.

10) why was the original direction in which muslims prayed jeruselum and later changed to the Kaaba by the prophet?

to break away from the jews that had gone astray to give the muslims their own identity as the only Ummah that followed the path of God. (so i have heard)

11) Why did the prophet get flown on the Buraq (hope i have spelled it right) to Jeruselum and then ascend to heaven from there to meet the prophets? Why did he not ascend from the Kaaba if it is seen as the link to God by Muslims?

because this is what Allah willed.

12) Did the prophet state that he was the last messanger from god and there would be no other after him as all muslims that i talk to say? if so then wha of our divine Gurus?

yes he did. there will be no more prophets and messengers after Muhammad.

regarding the last question, i hope javanmard could tell us more on this.

[Kam1825]

Singh thanks for the quick replies but from what you have said i have got more questions.

If the crescent moon has nothing to do with the islamic faith then why was it given to guru nanak dev ji in mecca and then later adorned by the nihangs in the form of the aad chand. why would guru nanak dev ji agree to wear the crescent moon in his tenth form as he promised the meccans?

I thought the covenant between God and Abraham was the cutting of the moustaceh and the circumcision, again why would God ask for these to be a covenant. God created Adam and all human beings in his divine imagae if this was the case why ruin what is perfect?

Where can i get further reading about Imama Ali being born in the Kaaba, has the Kaaba still got the crack from when openeing to allow Ali in? If so are the pictures anywhere on the net?

Whwer can i find some referances on this male that was killed instead of jesus? I have gone through different Tasfirs but none explain this. All they say that Jesus was risen to heaven again can anyone elaborate further?

I dont get the answer about praying initially in the direction of israel and later the Kabba. The prophet would only pray in the direction of the Lord? Does that mean the Lord according to islam can be found in both directions? Otherwise why else would the Namaz have been performed int eh direction o fht eAl Aqsa Mosque

[Guest Javanmard]

I'll reply to these questions PROPERLY when I have time i the next few days.

[Kam1825]

Thank you Javanmard

[Guest Javanmard]

Beh nam-e Khoda

3. Prophet Ibrahim was asked by Allah (swt) to start the shari'a of circumcision as a sign of the covenant between Him and Ibrahim. As to the so-called perfection of humans there are parts of your own body which you shed off not only naturally but which if not cut off could cause harm like the appendice when you have a case of appendicitis. In some cases a woman needs to have her stomach open in order to give birth by caesarian. If the human body is so perfect then why does it become ill, dies etc... The assumption that the human body is somehow "perfect" is wrong. You are confusing the notion of form and body. When it says that Allah (swt) created man in His image we are referring to a 2 dimensional concept NOT a 3 domensional one. Hence the difference between theophany and incarnation.

4.The sunnah of trimming moustaches is not wajib (obligatory) it only mustahab (recommended). At the time of the Propet (pbuh) the Jews would shave their beards and keep their moustaches. As a way of being distinguishable he recommended to Muslims to clip (not shave) their moustaches. Nevertheless in the Shi'a world many of those who consider Imam 'Ali's status to be superior don't shave their moustaches and sometimes never cut their hair.

5.As to the direction of prayer the change of it was there to prove that Allah (swt) changes the laws of religio whenever He so wishes. This is the principle of ibda'. Whenever He sees it fit and appropriate for man to change the laws of worship He thus does.Allah (swt) does not abide in any place. His Face is everhwhere. Bowing down to one particular direction is just a sign of allegiance and loyalty to Allah (swt)

6. The aad chand does't represent a moon. It actually represents degh (the crescent is actually the form of a degh), the khanda represents tegh and the combination of the two is fateh.

7. Some sources say it was Judas who was crucified instead of Jesus, other like Ibn Arabi say that Jesus' body was spiritualised into pure energy and that what the Jews crucified was a mere bodily phantom.This actually is a Christian theory called Docetism which was supported by many Eastern Christians but suppressed by the Church.

[shaheediyan]

Veer ji,

3. It would interesting to know how you interpret this bani:

"ਸਕਤਿ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਕਰਿ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕਰੀਐ ਮੈ ਨ ਬਦਉਗਾ ਭਾਈ ॥

Sakaṯ sanėhu kar sunaṯ karī­ai mai na baḏ­ugā bẖā­ī.

Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny.

ਜਉ ਰੇ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕਰੈਗਾ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਕਟਿ ਜਾਈ ॥੨॥

Ja­o rė kẖuḏā­ė mohi ṯurak karaigā āpan hī kat jā­ī. ||2||

If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. ||2||

ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਕੀਏ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਜੇ ਹੋਇਗਾ ਅਉਰਤ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੀਐ ॥

Sunaṯ kī­ė ṯurak jė ho­igā a­uraṯ kā ki­ā karī­ai.

If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?

ਅਰਧ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਛੋਡੈ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੀ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੩॥

Araḏẖ sarīrī nār na cẖẖodai ṯā ṯė hinḏū hī rahī­ai. ||3||

She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. ||3||

ਛਾਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਰਾਮੁ ਭਜੁ ਬਉਰੇ ਜੁਲਮ ਕਰਤ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥

Cẖẖād kaṯėb rām bẖaj ba­urė julam karaṯ hai bẖārī.

Give up your holy books, and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly.

ਕਬੀਰੈ ਪਕਰੀ ਟੇਕ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਤੁਰਕ ਰਹੇ ਪਚਿਹਾਰੀ ॥੪॥੮॥

Kabīrai pakrī tėk rām kī ṯurak rahė pacẖihārī. ||4||8||

Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord's Support, and the Muslims have utterly failed. ||4||8||

4. With all due respect to the Prophet Mohammed, is "distinguishing" a group not a sign of tribalism (not that this is necessarily a bad thing)?

Also, I am not sure why anyone would not want to listen to their Prophets recommendations, should they not be considered Gurbani?

5. "Bowing down to one particular direction is just a sign of allegiance and loyalty to Allah (swt)"

This was not a practice of Satguru, so this proves that Satguru did not have allegiance to Islam (alone). Also you say laws change, the Prophet changed the law to pray toward Macca, Satguru changed it to emphasise the omniprescence of Akaal. Therefore, if Satguru was also a law changer, then does that constitute a distinct path from Islam... be it, having the same objective?

[amardeep]

The way i was told, is that the verse is talking about forced conversions to Islam.

the beginning of the verse makes it clear:

Where have the Hindus and Muslims come from? Who put them on their different paths?

Think of this, and contemplate it within your mind, O men of evil intentions. Who will go to heaven and hell? ||1||

O Qazi, which book have you read?

The above verse is probably reffering to the Quran that says that you can not force anyone to believe, and there shall be no forcement when it comes to religion.

Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny.

i think in a wider perspective circumcision is a metaphor that represents the zahir, the outer aspect of religion, saying that one does not become a muslim by looking a certain way. Some of the extremist Mughal leaders would destroy hindu idols and ban them from practising hinduism, and afterwards make them look like muslims in their apperance. Guru Nanak critices hindues that have adopted the way of muslims in their zahir, while they still practice hinduism in their hearts.

the following verse gives a hint to the real meaning of the verse

She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu.

remains a hindu it says. it is not talking about newborn babies, but rather people being forced into Islam just by circumsising them. in Sau Sakhi there is also a narration about a man comin to Maharaj saying the turks have curcumsised him.

Give up your holy books, and remember the Lord, you fool, and stop oppressing others so badly.

Kabeer has grasped hold of the Lord's Support, and the Muslims have utterly failed. ||4||8||

The theme of the shabad is to avoid extremism in religion and practice religion out of love, rather than duty. Looking a certain way will not give you alligience to that religion, unless you practice it with your heart.

[Guest Javanmard]

4. With all due respect to the Prophet Mohammed, is "distinguishing" a group not a sign of tribalism (not that this is necessarily a bad thing)?

Also, I am not sure why anyone would not want to listen to their Prophets recommendations, should they not be considered Gurbani?

In a time where uniforms didn't exist how would you have distinguished the Muslims and Christians from the Jewish tribes on battlefield. But we know that Ali didn't clip his moustache so it was never imposed. Just a recommendation!

5.

5. "Bowing down to one particular direction is just a sign of allegiance and loyalty to Allah (swt)"

This was not a practice of Satguru, so this proves that Satguru did not have allegiance to Islam (alone). Also you say laws change, the Prophet changed the law to pray toward Macca, Satguru changed it to emphasise the omniprescence of Akaal. Therefore, if Satguru was also a law changer, then does that constitute a distinct path from Islam... be it, having the same objective?

Silly argument really! Don't you bow bown to Guru Granth Sahib? Don't people bow down to Maharaj after the ardas? All in the same direction?

You might be surprised to know that many Shi'as bow to other directions also. When people visit shrines out of devotion and out of knowledge that the Imam is the esoteric Kaaba. The brothers of Prophet Yusuf (as) bowed down to him because he was the manifest Imam of his age.

The Kaaba is the exoteric qibla. The Imam and his hujjah are the esoteric qibla.Guru Nanak being the Satguru he is the esoteric qibla. This is a Shi'a espteric principle. This is also the reason why the Kaaba turned around Guru Nanak: to show the superiority of the esoteric over the exoteric. Also Guru Nanak allowed Bhai Mardana to pay respect to the exoteric Kaaba as well. Guru Nanak never forbid namaz and Nanakshahi Shi'a still practise namaz. Guru Nanak like many great Shi'a Sufis didn't need to do it. He was the qibla himself. Ya Nanak Shah Faqir!!!

[Xylitol]

What is the significance of the old and new testament in Islam? Are they considered secondary authorities after teh Koran, or are they merely to be respected?

[Guest Javanmard]

To be respected and used as authority insofar as they don't contradict the Qur'an.

[vinegar]

Hope you don't mind if I ask some questions too.

Is it possible that circumcision is just a cultural practice that prevailed from before Islam was established?

What about hijab/burkha etc - these were in use from before Islam, why was their use not stopped?

Does Islamic law support 'honour killings' etc that were also part of the culture before Islam came about?

If this is the case is it not possible that Islamic law has to be adapted for use between different cultures?

[Guest Javanmard]

1. Circumcision started with the pact between Allah (swt) and Prophet Ibrahim (as) so it is only normal to find it already present before the birth of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

2. Hijab and burkha are NOT the same thing. Hijab means veil and it refers to both men and women who are not supposed to show parts of their body that can entice the other gender to thoughts leading to adultery. For women the Qur'an says that they should use their hijab to cover their bosom. The Ulema differ as to whether this includes the hair or not. The burkha (afghan ful covering) and niqab (face veil) are cultural practises. They are NOT Qur'anically approved.

3. Honour killings are of course strictly forbidden in Islam and are an evil cultural practise found in many countries even non-Muslim countries such as Sicily.

4. I can only talk of Shi'ism here. Sunism doesn't allow an interpretation of shari'a to suit the modern times. Shi'ism allows it. Iran has great jurists who have come with very progressive legal decisions that go in the direction of the rule of law, women's rights, equality. Too bad the guys at the top are top conservatives.

[shaheediyan]

1. The practice of circumcision did not start from the prophet Ibrahim, certain aboriginal African and Australian tribes have been practicing this ritual for probably tens of thousands of years.

[Guest Javanmard]

1. The practice of circumcision did not start from the prophet Ibrahim, certain aboriginal African and Australian tribes have been practicing this ritual for probably tens of thousands of years.

And Islam was born in Australia? I meant in the Middle East of course according to Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

[shaheediyan]

Veer Ji I didi not imply Islam was born in OZ, not sure where that came from.

My point it, that history shows that circumcision has been a tradition in the world long before Judaism, so it is more likely that it was just an adoption of existing cultural traditions.

[Guest Javanmard]

It may have been a tradition in other continents but circumcision as a sign of a pact with God starts with Judaism which actually only starts with Moses (as).

[dhan96Crore]

'. Circumcision started with the pact between Allah (swt) and Prophet Ibrahim (as) so it is only normal to find it already present before the birth of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). '

Yes it did start with ibrahim as you state but not as the 'pact' that you like to descrbe. It started because ibrahim was married to 1 woman, but one day he saw a attractive woman and wanted to have sexual intercourse with her. They both had intercourse with each other and then she found that ibrahim was already married, she was angry and he said sorry, and she told him that the punishment for this adultry will be for him to cut off all his parts of the body that he touched her with. but she said that you must be punished for what you have done, she said to ibrahim to cut his penus off, he said i cannot do this as i will die, so instead this is when he got CIRCUMCISED!!!!! and he then proclaimed that God has ordered it! LOL

Then the lips to be cut off, so he then cut his moutache etc etc etc.

All the above info is taken from suraj prakash Granth.

Fathe.

[Guest Javanmard]

Well that's of course not stated in the Torah or the Qur'an...Suraj Prakash Granth was written a good 3000 years after Prophet Ibrahim (as) so...I doubt he has any authority on that matter. Doesn't Bhai Santokh Singh also say that Ragmala isn't gurbani?

[dhan96Crore]

Lol i know your standard now i knew you was going to mention Sri Raagmala when i laid the truth down there.

Oh yeah and if the quran is real and untouched as your community claims it to be then what is it about mehdi mir that when he returns he will bring the original version of the quran back with him that was rejected, so basically the quran now is not the original, all that has been preeched is just not from the original quran.

Dhan Sant gyani gurbachan singh ji khalsa bhindranwale.

[Guest Javanmard]

I never said the Qur'an people have today is the original one. You are referring to a Sunni doctrine sorry. I believe this Quran is only one third of the original.

[amardeep]

hahah a prophet, a man sent with authority from God, commiting adultary? yeah right...