Some questions on Islam

[Guest Javanmard]

Well amardeep for Dhan96Crore God has got to be a sad loser:

The all-knowing Almighty sends avatars and prophets to humanity and they ALL I repeat ALL manage to sin and mess up their mission except of course the Gurus and the brahmgianis and the 96crore.

Let's suppose that the first ever avatar messed up....wouldn't God who is all knowing make sure the next ones were at least sinless and perfect so as to not misguide humanity?

If not what is the point in sending prophets and avatars who are imperfect? That means God would be misleading humanity and he wouldn't be God anymore.

As you see Dhan96Crore's theology makes great sense...

[dhan96Crore]

'Well amardeep for Dhan96Crore God has got to be a sad loser: '

How dare you! Again javanmard its sad to see such low thoughts enter your mind.

'The all-knowing Almighty sends avatars and prophets to humanity and they ALL I repeat ALL manage to sin and mess up their mission except of course the Gurus and the brahmgianis and the 96crore.'

Yes you have finally spoken the truth, preech brother preech. But really you need to go back to basics, read all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, and also all of Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib ji where maharaj states what happened to the previous avataars, prophets, devte etc and what happened to them.

'Let's suppose that the first ever avatar messed up....wouldn't God who is all knowing make sure the next ones were at least sinless and perfect so as to not misguide humanity? '

You still dont get it, this is all Gods play, go back to basics.

'If not what is the point in sending prophets and avatars who are imperfect? That means God would be misleading humanity and he wouldn't be God anymore. '

When akaal purkh sent the previous avataars to earth, they were pure and free from the 5 vices, basically they made mistakes when they were here, and you need to read about how this happened read brahma avataaar, etc from sri dasam Granth sahib ji.

Also for those of you have read sri sarbloh granth sahib ji its clear when in bani in there it says that akaal purkh vaheguru sent Guru nanak dev ji into the world ki ' Duniya nu sada sacha nam japau', this was the hukum given to Guru nanak directly by Akaal purkh vaheguru in sachkand.

I advise the sangat to listen to katha of sri sarbloh granth sahib ji by baba santa singh ji which can be found on gurmatveechar and keertan.org where he talks about all the above.

'As you see Dhan96Crore's theology makes great sense...'

You are still so funny i mean really brother go back to basics:

Read the ithaas of our brothers the chote sahibzade, did they bow to the islamic mad men? nooooooo way did they, the muslims thought they were clever by making bend down to go into a small room where their quran was stored, instead the sahibzade went into the room feet first and not head first, showing what they thought of islam right there, and also the quran that you also speak of.

Javanmard on a serious note it seems you have gone onto a side road and got lost , you need to go back to basics.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa

Vaheguru ji ki fathe

[dhan96Crore]

'hahah a prophet, a man sent with authority from God, commiting adultary? yeah right... '

All the prophets sent previous by akaal purk vaheguru were just that, nothing more nothing less, they are messengers nothing more nothing less.

The gurus were avataars of akaal purkh vaheguru, they were Satguru's which is something way above a messenger.

[dhan96Crore]

'I believe this Quran is only one third of the original.'

And you have the nerve to disrespect sant gyani gurbachan singh ji, your incredible.

The truth of the quran is coming out now, point is proven.

[amardeep]

what kind of God misguides humanity for thousands of years?

how do you know the Gurus were pure and sinfree, when all the other 124.000 prophets and millions of avatars all commited sins? if you say that Gurbani states they were, how do you know that the Gurus did not just write this on their own, as there is a possibility that they were sinners.

Gurbani tells you not to follow men that are sinners, and at the same time it tells muslims/hindues to be better muslims/hindues and follow Prophet Muhammad/their respective avatar? that makes no sence. are you saying that Gurbani is sending them into the arms of sinners?

what kind of God are you obeying?

[Guest Javanmard]

The "God" he obeys is the copy of the institutions he loves...bound to constant failure...

[Kam1825]

Javanmard i am not sure about Prophet Abraham commiting adultry although i have heard it is due to polygmy rather then adultry.

However what about Prophet David who is also known as King David. What about him as he was a beloved of the lord but committed adultary and murder as i stated in the questions first stated.

[amardeep]

that is according to the bible which is a book that has been edited several times throughout history

[Guest Javanmard]

The issue of David's supposed adultery with Betsabeh is subject to debate in the Talmud. Some Talmudic authors argued that the affair was not adultery at all, quoting a custom of divorce on the eve of battle to prevent the wives of the missing-in-action from becoming agunot (chained to a missing husband). The Qur'an affirms that Uriah was part of Saul's army not David's own general.

[dhan96Crore]

'what kind of God misguides humanity for thousands of years?'

Like i said its all Gods play, have you read sri dasam granth if not all your answers you will find in there.

'how do you know the Gurus were pure and sinfree, when all the other 124.000 prophets and millions of avatars all commited sins?'

LOL i still cant believe you are asking this dumb question, the Guru is the avataar of Vaheguru, they are sinfree and pure because they are one with vaheguru, and the 124,000 are prophets just like you say, thats all they are messangers of vaheguru

Guru - avataar of vaheguru (is 1 with akaal)

Prophet - messanger of vaheguru

'if you say that Gurbani states they were, how do you know that the Gurus did not just write this on their own, as there is a possibility that they were sinners. '

GUR KI NINDA SUNA NA KAAN.

You seriously need to read Sri guru granth sahib ji and then you will find all your answers, possibility they were sinners? You are the most ridiculas singh i have come across, the gurus were perfect, sinfree and not liars and sinners like you are starting to think, my friend you need to start reading guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth sahib ji, and sri sarbloh granth sahib ji, all your doubts about maharaj will be destroyed.

'Gurbani tells you not to follow men that are sinners, and at the same time it tells muslims/hindues to be better muslims/hindues and follow Prophet Muhammad/their respective avatar? that makes no sence. are you saying that Gurbani is sending them into the arms of sinners?'

Its about how one understands their own religion, that is exactly what maharaj is saying not to send them to sinners but to send them into the truths of their real beliefs.

what kind of God are you obeying?

I am obeying the all great akaal purkh vaheguru, i am on the path of sikhism which is as thin as a hair, sharper than the edge of a sword. My guru is the great dhan dhan satguru guru granth sahib ji maharaj, dhan dhan sri dasam granth sahib ji maharaj, dhan dhan sri sarbloh granth sahib ji maharaj.

[dhan96Crore]

'what kind of God misguides humanity for thousands of years?'

Like i said its all Gods play, have you read sri dasam granth if not all your answers you will find in there.

'how do you know the Gurus were pure and sinfree, when all the other 124.000 prophets and millions of avatars all commited sins?'

LOL i still cant believe you are asking this dumb question, the Guru is the avataar of Vaheguru, they are sinfree and pure because they are one with vaheguru, and the 124,000 are prophets just like you say, thats all they are messangers of vaheguru

Guru - avataar of vaheguru (is 1 with akaal)

Prophet - messanger of vaheguru

'if you say that Gurbani states they were, how do you know that the Gurus did not just write this on their own, as there is a possibility that they were sinners. '

GUR KI NINDA SUNA NA KAAN.

You seriously need to read Sri guru granth sahib ji and then you will find all your answers, possibility they were sinners? You are the most ridiculas singh i have come across, the gurus were perfect, sinfree and not liars and sinners like you are starting to think, my friend you need to start reading guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth sahib ji, and sri sarbloh granth sahib ji, all your doubts about maharaj will be destroyed.

'Gurbani tells you not to follow men that are sinners, and at the same time it tells muslims/hindues to be better muslims/hindues and follow Prophet Muhammad/their respective avatar? that makes no sence. are you saying that Gurbani is sending them into the arms of sinners?'

Its about how one understands their own religion, that is exactly what maharaj is saying not to send them to sinners but to send them into the truths of their real beliefs.

what kind of God are you obeying?

I am obeying the all great akaal purkh vaheguru, i am on the path of sikhism initiated into the khalsa panth, the path which is as thin as a hair, sharper than the edge of a sword. My guru is the great dhan dhan satguru guru granth sahib ji maharaj, dhan dhan sri dasam granth sahib ji maharaj, dhan dhan sri sarbloh granth sahib ji maharaj.

'The "God" he obeys is the copy of the institutions he loves...bound to constant failure... '

Javanmard you have seriously lost the plot, you cannot accept the truth, you are very confused.

According to shia beliefs the current quran that muslims have is not the correct one, they believe mehdi mir has the correct version, so javanmard why is the current version not correct? are we seeing a a connection between the bible and the quran of differences, edited versions?

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa

Vaheguru ji ki fathe

[Guest Javanmard]

The issue of the Qur'an's tahrif has already been treated. It's not a matter we Shi'as hide. The content of the present Qur'an is not incorrect. It's just that there is stuff missing. The Imams themselves said this. No insecurity on our part. In any case the real living Qur'an is the Imam.

Is it true you Brahmgianis can be at 101 at once? That's interesting. I read about a native tribe in the Amazon rain forest whose shamans can be at 102 paces at once. Seems you and I are following the wrong path! Guys I am going to go to Brazil, get naked and live in the forest and eat roasted spiders because their saints can be at 102 places at once. I hope there isn't another tribe whose saints are at 103 places at once!

[Kam1825]

Brother Javanmard does that mean according to what you have learned that the wives of the people in the army of David or Saul would divorce before battle. Would that mean that they get married again after the battle if the men survived! That personally is a silly concept in order to excuse one of Adultary. However if you do agree with this idea i must say i do not think David married Bethsheba before he slept with her following seing her taking a ritualistic bath.

The Old testament states the Urriah was the husband of Bethsheba and that he was in the army of David. This is what is written in the bible. Bethsheba had an affair with King David and she got pregnant with the Child. God punished the couple with the death of this child. Is this recorded in the Quran or not!

Does The Koran talk about prophet Nathan? As he is the one who was the Judge at the time and spoke aout about the sin committed by David and told him of the forth coming punishment he will face from his own son Absalom! Im guessing this is also missing from the Qu'ran.

If Uriah was in Saul's army then for how long was Bethsheba a widow before David slept with her without being married to her. She would have been pretty old then compared to David. Don't think he really would have been tempted by the beauty of an old woman?

It just seems perfect that these things are left out of the Qu'ran. The mormons who have taken their religion to be an offshoot of Christianity seem not to have edited anything out unlike that in the Qu'ran

Does the Qu'ran speak of the actions of the prophet Lot following leaving the cities which were being destroyed by God? I bet it doesn't mention him drinking and impregnating his daughters!

Does the Qu'ran mention the prophet Noah cursing his son Ham and his descendants to slavery?

Does the Qu'ran mention the Prophet Aaron and his part in the building of the golden Calf whilst prophet moses was recieving the ten commandments.

Also the Qu'ran mentions 124,000 prophets and mentions only 25 prophets. While Jewish Sources state there have been 600,000 male prophets and 600,000 female prophets out of which 48 are mentioned in the jewish scriptures. The Bah'ais later in time go on to mention even more prophets including alot of minor prophets as well.

It seems to me that Qu'ran has been edited to suit those who wrote it rather then being te truth. As you state this is the Sunni Quran and maybe they have done this in order to help their teachings and movements on this i can only speculate but even you have said that you believe that this Qu'ran is only a third of the original.

Again before i am condemned for blasphamy i am not trying to be, i am currently studying the jewish texts in comparison to the islamic texts on the prophets for a paper at Uni thus is the reason for realising all of these differences and trying to find answers!

[Guest Javanmard]

Brother Javanmard does that mean according to what you have learned that the wives of the people in the army of David or Saul would divorce before battle. Would that mean that they get married again after the battle if the men survived! That personally is a silly concept in order to excuse one of Adultary.

How can this be adultery if the divorce has been pronounced?

Does The Koran talk about prophet Nathan? As he is the one who was the Judge at the time and spoke aout about the sin committed by David and told him of the forth coming punishment he will face from his own son Absalom! Im guessing this is also missing from the Qu'ran.

In the Qur'a it is David (as) who is both prophet and king. He is not punished at all for he hasn't commited any crimes.

If Uriah was in Saul's army then for how long was Bethsheba a widow before David slept with her without being married to her. She would have been pretty old then compared to David. Don't think he really would have been tempted by the beauty of an old woman?

It just seems perfect that these things are left out of the Qu'ran. The mormons who have taken their religion to be an offshoot of Christianity seem not to have edited anything out unlike that in the Qu'ran

Does the Qu'ran speak of the actions of the prophet Lot following leaving the cities which were being destroyed by God? I bet it doesn't mention him drinking and impregnating his daughters!

Does the Qu'ran mention the prophet Noah cursing his son Ham and his descendants to slavery?

Does the Qu'ran mention the Prophet Aaron and his part in the building of the golden Calf whilst prophet moses was recieving the ten commandments.

No these things are not mentionned at all. By principle in Shi'a Islam all prophets are sinless! Otherwise they wouldn't be prophets!

It seems to me that Qu'ran has been edited to suit those who wrote it rather then being te truth. As you state this is the Sunni Quran and maybe they have done this in order to help their teachings and movements on this i can only speculate but even you have said that you believe that this Qu'ran is only a third of the original.

We know from Ahl ul Bayt (as) that:

a. Even though we use Uthman's Qur'an it's content is correct.

b. There are only things missing from it

c. the things missing are references to Imam Ali (as) and Ahl u Bayt (as)

d. Nowhere does it state that it included blasphemous passages about the past prophets.

[Kam1825]

is sex outside of marriage or before marrage not seen as a sin. if not what is the concept of a wedding in islam.

[Guest Javanmard]

Sex outside marriage is a sin. The Talmudic scholars do of course say that David married Betsabeh before having sex with her.

[Kam1825]

Who are the Talmudic scholars you speak of as would like to read their views. It does not matter if the books are in arabic as that is not an issue.

I personally think this view is wrong it states that David saw Bethsheba and after falling for her beauty he spent the night with her and she fell pregnant.

For this the Prophet nathan challanged him and David suffered humiliation at the hands of his son

None of the testements talk of a wedding til Uriah was killed and after Bethsheba had lost her child which concieved out of wedlock.

Can i ask doe sit state in the Qu'ran that David married Bethsheba and did not break the laws of God given to Moses. I am after this from the Quran not from scholars. As you say the Qu'ran in the word of God not that of scholars

[vinegar]

dhan96crore, argue all you want, but your triple posting makes me want to violate myself with a spork.

we have 'edit' and 'quote' functions y'know

[nimarta da daan bakhso]

12) Did the prophet state that he was the last messanger from god and there would be no other after him as all muslims that i talk to say? if so then wha of our divine Gurus?

How about the Gurus are avatar of Waheguru, because no other prophets gave the right updesh:

srb Drm mih sRyst Drmu ]

sarab dhharam mehi sraesatt dhharam ||

Of all religions, the best religion

hir ko nwmu jip inrml krmu ]

har ko naam jap niramal karam ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.