Dera Sacha Sauda's Attack On Sikhism Through An Advertisemen

[PAL 07]

FATEH

HERES A VIDEO OF THE INCIDENTS ERRUPTING

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070515/211/6ftgg.html

[Niranjana]

Shaheediyan wrote:

"I feel the issue was probably not on the large part to do with your background, but probably more to do with your thoughts and opinions, which narrow minded, uneducated or fanatical people can't bear to debate, as it creates a big whole in their ozone layer."

Veera, the colour has no issue, in fact mainstream Gurdwaras (yes those had get the much touted neo-Sikh, SGPC blah blah label) actually are quite fond of hearing and learning from Sikhs from non-Punjabi backgrounds.

The problem is with the "uneducated or fanatical people can't bear to debate" who are ones that lash out all and sundry and especially other Punjabi Sikhs (I have no need to give examples here), however as I have indicated elsewhere repeatedly, these individuals and groups, are nothing more than fringe elements in the modern Sikh community, but appear at times to be THE sikh community owing to their online presence, uncanny ability to obtain control over Sikh Groups and Institutions.

Again, the majority of Punjabi Sikhs aren't getting hot and bothered about Nirankaris, Radha Soamis or this chap dressed in Pink and Green (only in India, man talk about contrast!!!) making his magic potion - it is predominantly those belonging to having sympathies for the fringe groups alluded to above (and hence falling for their "Sikhi khatre me hai" parchaar).

[Guest Javanmard]

Look I don't paint Panjabis with the same brush ok. I was engaged to a Panjaban, I speak more or less fluent Panjabi and have been teaching it for three years at SOAS at the language center. There are many aspects of Panjabi culture I love and have adopted. Unfortunately I have to face the reality which is this: the overwhelming majority of the people in the Panjabi Sikh community is far too obsessed by caste, the spirit of the blood for me to feel at home in it. I have been betrayed by people I considered brothers who told me to my face and behind my back that I wasn't a Singh or that I was nearly a Singh despite not being Panjabi. I am not talking here about some uneducated Southall mona. I am talking about amritdharis. When it happens a dozen of times you learn your lesson. No matter how hard I try to speak better Panjabi than anyone else around me, no matter how much I may know about Sikhi the fact remains: I am not Panjabi and for the majority of the community what counts first is blood! I have seen too many discussions end up with the opposing side using my origins as an argument saying: You don't know s°°° you're not Panjabi! Why should I try to be part of a community that obviously doesn't want me. It isn't just a few incidents, I am talking here about a regular feature.Yes gurdware like to have their token white convert but refuse to play that role.

1. I am mediterranean and the probability of me having Islamic ancestry is quite high. Like most Panjabis I have experienced racism from blond haired blue-eyed north Europeans since childhood. But nobody considers for a second that calling me "white" is extremely offensive to me.

2. I am a scholar, an Ustad. When I mention that in the Panjabi Sikh community I get called arrogant. My Shi'a brothers and sisters on the other hand honour that title and give the respect that goes with it.

It was never my intention to put all Panjabis in the same basket but to point out a tribal mentality that has brought Sikhi to the situation it is today.

I let you compare this with the situation of my friend Sayyid Ammar Naqshwani, a famous Shi'a lecturer. Though an Iraqi he gets invited in all types of mosques (Panjabi, Khoja, Iranian, Iraqi, Lebanese etc) the world over. He gets his airflight tickets paid and gets a substantial fee. Housing, food and accommodation are of course provided by the community in which he lectures.His lectures have attracted thousands in many countries. How old is he? 26. His speeches are broadcasted. What he has to say isn't some sakhis of some baba but actually lectures tackling very important points of doctrine. I may not agree with everything he says but he is a great speaker. He's also doing a PhD. Why is such a community successful not only in keeping ts youth but also at attracting new members: they invest in and respect scholars.

I compare this with what I have had so far from the Panjabi Sikh community in general and I have drawn my conclusions: I am not wanted! and I respect that decision.

[chatanga]

Javan mard dont lump us all wiv those few who you have met and experinced. please.

also this sacha sauda thing seems to be more of a piiss taker by sacha sauda of the Sikhs rather than some important feature of the sacha sauda movement. Has Sacha Sauda done this b4? i dont think so.

he knows the Sikh institutions are a joke, and the Sikh politicians, clergy are arsseholes, and so he's just doing a piiss take like the nirankaris and thier sat sitare/seven stars.

true this should encourage us more to preach Sikhi, but the thing is here the sgpc is full of idiots. They are full of reaction rather than action. Horribly, the Sikhs by and large seem to have fallen into this trap.

[Guest Javanmard]

Sorry but that has been my experience with most people in the community.

[Harbhajan]

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070516/asp/...ory_7784089.asp

Issue Date: Wednesday, May 16, 2007

Sikhs flare up at Guru in ad

- Sect depicts leader as Gobind Singh preparing amrit, violates religious tenets

OUR CORRESPONDENT

Chandigarh, May 15: The nectar of “humanitarianism†is threatening to rip apart Punjab’s secular fabric.

Furious Sikhs and followers of an influential sect — comprising Sikhs and non-Sikhs — clashed for the second day over an advertisement showing the group’s head dressed as Guru Gobind Singh and preparing “amritâ€, to be distributed among followers.

The ad released by the Sirsa-based Dera Sacha Sauda, which sparked clashes in Bathinda and left at least 20 injured since yesterday, also issued a code of conduct different from Sikh tenets, claiming it would revive “humanitarianism†among the masses.

The Sikh religion forbids depiction of any living man or woman as any of the 10 gurus.

The Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee, which maintains gurdwaras in Punjab and other parts of the country, has termed the advertisement “offensiveâ€.

“Guru Gobind Singh began the ritual of giving nectar to baptise Sikhs or others who chose to become Sikhs. The people will retaliate if someone else starts considering himself to be the guru,†an SGPC spokesperson said.

The Akal Takht, the highest Sikh temporal body, also voiced anger. At a meeting today in Amritsar, it, however, appealed for peace. “We appeal to all sections to remain calm,†head priest Joginder Vedanti said.

Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh, whose depiction as the tenth Sikh guru triggered the violence, defended the advertisement, saying he was only working towards making a human being better. “If somebody drinks the offering and becomes a better human being, humanity would be the gainer,†he said.

Yesterday, Dera followers who had gathered at the Bathinda local administration office to protest government apathy, clashed with Sikhs who had assembled at a nearby gurdwara to burn an effigy of Gurmeet.

“The Dera followers had come with sticks and iron rods,†a district official said.

Today, apart from the violence in Bathinda where the sect has a large following, Sikhs and Dera followers spilled onto the streets of Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana, Moga, Patiala, Mansa, Sangrur and Muktsar.

In Amritsar, followers of the Damdami Taksal, a Sikh seminary, brandished swords and shouted pro-Khalistan slogans to protest against the advertisement.

The Dera has a strong following in Punjab and played a vital role in ensuring that the Congress was not decimated in the February state polls.

It had issued a diktat to followers to vote for the party at the request of then chief minister Amarinder Singh, allegedly with an offer to bail out Gurmeet who is facing a CBI probe into allegations of murders and sexual exploitation of women followers.

[kirpa_karo]

Fateh,

This whole debate reminds me of the lecture of Swami Brahm Dev Ji Udasin about those who were agaisnt Siri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib >>> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...;q=dasam+granth

He says something which reminds me of this debate.

It is true that we have lost our respect for vidhvaans or scholars. The design of Guru Gobind Singh was amazing the Nirmalas and Udasis took on the role of scholars and the Nihang Singhs were there to act as the teghs or weapons.

Swami Brahm Dev says that the scholars are shastars of the panth but also the Nihang Singhs sitting before him are the weapons as well to make sure that the disrespect of the panth doesnt take place.

We have to work together - the wielders of the pen and the sword. The Nihang Singhs have fallen into their own disputes the scholars receive no support that is the problem.

Do not comdemn those who wish to pick up the sword or the pen both need to taken up at times like these!

But they need to be picked up in conjuction with each other - we need to bring back into the panth this mixture of scholar and soldier.

It is time to pick up arms and pick up the pen!

Siri Akaal Ji Sahai

[Harbhajan]

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/141678.php/...Punjab-violence

Sikh Diaspora bashes SGPC, SAD for Punjab violence

By Ravinder Singh Robin

Amritsar, May 16: The Shiromani Gurdwara Parbhandhak Committee (SGPC) and Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD) have invited severe criticism from the Sikh Diaspora over the violent incidents taking place in Punjab and its neighbouring states in the last few days.

Foreign Sikh organizations were of the view that clashes between different Sikh sects over advertisement in few newspapers showing Sirsa-based Dera Sacha Soudha head Gurmeet Ram Raheem Singh dressed as Guru Gobind Singh, was an outcome of the failure of "Dharm Parchar" wing of the SGPC.

They alleged that the SGPC officials were working for the Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD).

Talking to ANI from the US over telephone, Dr. Pritpal Singh, Convenor of American Gurdwara Parbhandhak Committee (AGPC), said it was unfortunate to see the SGPC derailing from its path, adding that the SAD and the SGPC were responsible for the encouragement of the Dera culture in Punjab.

He further expressed disappointment with the SGPC, saying it has been infiltrated for a long time by the anti-Sikh lobby and it was highly unlikely that it would serve the panth now, "because there are too many corrupt leaders in it".

Harminder Singh, senior leader of Sikh Council Switzerland, said this was high time for Sikh organizations to work together and have a bullet point agenda in bringing Sikhism back. He said the Sikhs living in Europe demand the Indian government to take strict action against Gumeet Ram Reheem to restore peace in the region.

Gurbinder Singh, a member of the Italy Sikh Council and president of Khalsa Welfare Association, Italy, demanded that the Jathedar of Akal Takhat should take strong stand against the Dera culture in Punjab and should initiate "dharm parchar laher" on war footage.

While echoing with the AGPC chief, he said it was because of the failure of the SGPC that these Deras were misleading the people in Punjab.

Ragubir Singh, a volunteer of Gurdwara Sigh Sabah, Paris, said these Deras should be discouraged by the Akal Takhat, as most of the Deras have been violating the "maryada" (sikh code of conduct) as formulated by the SGPC and Akal Takht.

He further demanded the police must put a ban of the activities of Dera Sacha Saudha.

Accusing the Dera Sacha Saudha chief of playing with Sikh sentiments, Manmohan Singh Khalsa from the UK blamed Punjab Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal for adopting dilly-dallying tactics while dealing with those responsible for making mockery of the Sikh ethos and principles.

Copyright Dailyindia.com/ANI

[akaali]

lol bahadur is too funny, hes just pissed because he couldnt get married to this ramgharia girl, thats all, not to mention how his scholarly life in sikhi is getting him no where, he blames it on him being white. w/e

[tSingh]

Well the on the ground punjab perspective right now, one of the main stories on all mainstream indian news channels, really taken off. CNN-IBN, reknowned for their global bullc**p broadcasting had a special 'panthic path' night last night, lots of people discussing why people are so sensitive, religion and moden india, etc. Lots of images of the usual sardar ji security guards who carry guns to religious functions, but instead suggesting Sikhs are all armed and crazed. The Deol stereotype of a bloated sardarji with a talwar in his hand screaming 'jo bole so nihal', interviews with people who can only hyperventilate and scream into the microphone. So not really a great day for the national impression of religious Sikhs. Gurmeet is either suffering egomania or is plain stupid since he is claiming he didn't know, and that he only wore it becuase his followers bought it for him ('its me followers wot made me do it guvna').

Badal has been accused (rightly so) of using the usual Akali/BJP-VHP-RSS tactic of religion to gain political advantage. He's delaying doing anything, letting it flare to fever pitch which is unbelievably disgraceful. plus he has such a slap me face. Its worth noting that he's been working his way around punjab, instigating similar set of protests or court actions against high level congress supporters such as the Vice Chancellor SS Bopari who he has been trying to get out of Punjabi University in Patiala through student organisation (run by badal jr) protests at the gates since Bopari is in with Amarinder Singh/pro-congress.

I guess, once the government agencies take a more heavy handed approach against his Akali activists, he'll then have the evidence to claim that Congressi are out to attack Sikhi by defending those who did its beadbi, the usual. There could well be a caste thing in here too, since Dera Sacha Sauda's main fanbase are sehajdhari mazbhis.

The only real solution in my opinion is a very swift, very public and very effective set of legal actions by Badal and jathedars against Gurmeet Ram Rahim. Otherwise it'll fester with the usual conspiracy crap (already used by Badal).

[shaheediyan]

"There could well be a caste thing in here too, since Dera Sacha Sauda's main fanbase are sehajdhari mazbhis."

I think this plays a very important part. I heard Ram Raheem's followers number 3m, on CNN I think (probably a slight exaggeration), but I don't doubt that he has many followers, and majority being so called Mazbhis.

This caste discrimination which is prevailent in nearly all corners of the panth (institutions and representatives) is the reason that Christian and Muslim conversions have been so successful in the Punjab historically. Today we have people like Ram Raheem making up huge numbers from communities which others have been treated unequally elsewhere.

Seems to me, that rather than ranting and raving (as there will always be imposters), it's better to put effort into welcoming and treating those most likely to be misguided (due to lack of acceptance elsewhere) with respect and encouragement. This would not eliminate the imposter problem, but, certainly hugely reduce it.

[DSG]

I personally believe the biggest mistake we make is use violence as the first resort , this gizza acting as Sri Guru Gobind Singh is obviously powered by some party to cause a bit of mayhem , which he has succesfully achieved.

We make the mistake of drawing the sword upon any persons/sect who disagrees with Sikhism ( one of the enemies to control is anger , we do our daily prayers to overcome this , but it doesnt seem to be the case)

SGPC have power , if they wish they could have easily put a stop to this gizza , not physically but via literature. literature which lists , why this gizza is fake , why he is making a mockery of sikhism ? They could have bombarded the whole of India with the truth , but oh no , its more the opposite i.e. use violence . They have to think , what is the cause of this sects arising , who is behind it all , get to the root cause.

The other thing ,if we just sit and do nothing , how would this affect our kids , what would happen if our kids follow this path , i'm sure we wouldnt just sit and carry on with life. Our biggest problem is that we have so many Gurudawars , its like a business , we fight amongst each other for power , theres no unity amongst us sikhs , for us to fight against these sects we must get ready to get along with ourselves .

[tSingh]

Well, its 8.30pm over here and its gone to a new level. Total media blackout non stop coverage on all channels. Talvandi Sabo SGPC jathedar decision was to give it 10 days and for sikhs not to associate with sacha sauda types. But it sounds like Taksal and according to the TV 'Nihangs' alongwith many others didn't accpet that and it reports '20,000' Sikhs are outside the dera. The TVs got footage of burntout vehicles and smashed property from somewhere earlier. There was something I didn't quite catch about the reporters not being allowed into certain villages by the inhabitants, who knows what thats about. Plus everybody's well aware of the nirankari paralells and footage from the late 70s have been shown on one news channel. What is it, five months in power for badal and he's made this? Not bad eh! 2 days on and he's still not doing a thing. The tv says that the police have told the sacha saudas to get out of their deras, which it seems they've done. But unlike some things in the past where there's a mixed reponse, I've not met anyone who sympathises with Gurmeet Ram Rahim - they also mentioned the man's got a string of court cases on his ass for sexual harrasment of women followers, corruption and a few murders!

[kirpa_karo]

I still think Swami Brahm Dev has got the right idea...

[Harbhajan]

http://www.indiaenews.com/politics/20070517/52106.htm

Sikh clergy asks community to boycott dera sect chief

The top Sikh clergy Thursday asked the community to socially boycott the Dera Sacha Sauda sect and its chief Baba Gurmit Ram Rahim, a decision termed as 'too mild' by several Sikhs here.

From correspondents in India, 17 May 2007 - (www.indiaenews.com)

The top Sikh clergy Thursday asked the community to socially boycott the Dera Sacha Sauda sect and its chief Baba Gurmit Ram Rahim, a decision termed as 'too mild' by several Sikhs here.

The boycott decision, taken at a meeting of Sikh clergymen and heads of various Sikh organisations at Takht Damdama Sahib gurudwara here (over 250 km from Chandigarh), led to an immediate reaction from thousands of Sikhs who had gathered here seeking a decision against the dera (sect) chief.

Brandishing their traditional 'kirpans' (dagger) and other weapons and sticks, the Sikhs outside the meeting venue said the decision was too mild and had let off the dera godman without much punishment.

The Sikh leaders also served a 10-day ultimatum on the Akali Dal government in Punjab led by Parkash Singh Badal to check the anti-Sikh activities of the dera and its followers.

They directed the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) - the mini-parliament of the Sikh religion - to keep a close watch on the sect's activities in Punjab and elsewhere.

The meeting demanded registration of cases against the dera followers who were involved in rioting in Bathinda, 50 km from here, Monday and Tuesday. They sought the arrest of the dera followers involved in the violence.

The Akal Takht - the highest temporal seat of Sikh community - had called for a meeting of the community here to decide on the reaction of the Sikh community to Gurmit Ram Rahim attiring himself like the revered 10th Sikh guru, Gobind Singh.

Punjab remained tense Thursday following three days of clashes involving Sikh community and members of the Dera Sacha Sauda sect.

The dera is based in adjoining Haryana's Sirsa town, 300 km from here, where the dera management and followers have called a parallel meeting.

Even as the news of the decisions came, Punjab remained tense and Sikh leaders and activists said they would not settle for anything less than the arrest of the dera godman and an apology from him.

In Haryana's Karnal town, 130 km from state capital Chandigarh, dera followers were cane-charged by police after they tried to move towards a gurudwara (Sikh shrine).

Tension prevailed in the Sikh holy city of Amritsar and Patiala as Sikh activists took to the streets Thursday and forced shops to down shutters.

'We want the arrest of this man. We are capable of teaching him a lesson,' Taksal chief H.S. Bhindranwale said before the meeting.

Earlier, Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) president Avtar Singh Makkar said that the Sikh clergy would decide the action against the sect head for 'showing disrespect to the Sikh religion'.

'We don't want to negotiate with him. We will not talk to him. He will have to face action. We will not spare him,' Makkar had said.

Punjab has witnessed violence in several towns and cities over the last three days over the matter, leaving over 50 people as well as policemen injured.

Followers of the dera laid siege to Bathinda town Monday and Tuesday and clashed with the police. They damaged public property extensively before retreating.

As a face saving measure aimed at pacifying the Sikh community, the Bathinda police Wednesday night registered cases of violence against over 3,000 dera followers.

Sikhs have taken to the streets in various towns and cities across Punjab and other parts of the country, burning effigies of the sect godman.

Sikh activists resorted to violence in Amritsar and Patiala Wednesday and forced shopkeepers to down shutters.

Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal, whose government has been embarrassed by the turn of events in the last three days, said that the state government would not allow anyone to take law and order in their hands.

(Staff Writer, © IANS)

[gsingh00]

as much as I think action needs to be taken against this gurmeet ram raheem character, I can't help feel bad for the countless number of people whose faith and safety are being manipulated by dirty politicians.

[Harbhajan]

source: http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/3288/2007-05-16.html

(for pictures please click on the above link )

Sirsa Cult Leader Makes Mockery of Guru Sahib!

Wednesday 16th of May 2007

Panthic Weekly News Bureau

Cultists: "Our Guru is better than your Guru!"

Cult leader wearing clothes similar to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, complete with a Kalgi on his head

Bathinda, Punjab (KP) – Panthic organizations in Punjab and around the world have taken strong notice of the recent controversial and blasphemous acts of the Dera Sacha Sauda Cult leader Gurmeet Ram Rahim in which he dressed himself as Guru Gobind Singh Ji and mimicked the sacred Sikh Amrit-Sanchar ceremony carried out by Guru Sahib on Vaisakhi of 1699.

In a mockery of the historic Amrit sanchar more than three centuries ago, Gurmit Ram Rahim prepared a Ruhafza Sharbat (flavored milk) drink, labeled it as the 'Jam-e-Insa' (drink of humanity), administered it to the Sacha Sauda followers and announced the formation of the 'Insa Panth'.

Insulting the Amrit-Sanchar Ceremony

To inaugurate the ceremony, Ram Rahim first administered the drink to seven men and announced the forty-seven golden rules of the so-called Insa Panth which all members of the congregation must abide by. Later, Ram Rahim appeared in front of the seven men, whom he titled the 'Sat Sitare' (Seven Stars), satirizing the ‘Panj Pyare’ (beloved five) of the Sikhs and asked them to carry out a ceremony to initiate him in this newly formed religious order. At this ceremony, Ram Rahim was dressed in clothing much like the type adorned by Guru Gobind Singh Ji and mimicked historical accounts of Vasakhi 1699.

Later after this event took place, tensions broke out in Bathinda in which Sikhs protested the acts of Ram Rahim's cult. Sacha Sauda followers also came out to oppose the protesting Sikhs and the scene became violent when at least twenty-five persons were badly injured. According to witnesses, Punjab Police officers just looked on as cultists beat the Sikh protestors with sticks and stones. Once the fight began to even out, the police finally decided to intervene and the tense situation was brought under control.

Call for Strong Action

Panthic Organizations have submitted this case to Akal Takht Sahib and the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee and asked the Sikh leadership to take strong actions to counter the Sacha Sauda propaganda. Several foreign based Panthic organizations have also submitted appeals with the Akal Takht Sahib to take strong actions against Ram Rahim in the form of a HukamNama similar to the one issued in 1978 against the nakli-Nirankaris. Under pressure from the protesting Sangat, the Takht Jathedars have called for an all Panthic meet at Takht Sri Damdama Sahib, Sabo Di Talwandi.

Secret Pact with Badal?

Panthic Weekly has also learned that Dr. Daljit Singh Cheema, special assistant to Parkash Badal asked the Takht Jathedars to postpone any announcement or verdict directed at the cultist Baba. Akali Dal insiders have revealed that a secret pact between Parkash Badal and the cult leader was worked out. In the deal, Badal has assured the Sirsa Baba that no religious or police action would be taken against him. Panthic activists have long warned that internally Parkash Badal has had cozy relationships with cult leaders such the Ram Rahim of Sucha Sauda, Aushutosh of Nurmehal, and even notorious Gurbachan Sinh of the Nakli-Nirankaris.

Panthic insiders have revealed that early this week, the Jathedar of Akal Takht Sahib, Joginder Singh Vedanti--who incidentally was appointed by Badal and his party--held a meeting with Takht Jathedars to cancel the Panthic meeting at Bathinda. Over objections from other Jathedars, Vedanti was overruled. Numerous representatives of organizations such as Shaahbaaz Khalsa, GURSIKH and Panthic Weekly attempted to contact the Jathedar but he has not responded. Despite his attempts to uphold Badal's pact, Vedanti was seen on television Thursday saying the Khalsa Panth needs to take strong action.

Deja Vu All Over Again

A representative of the Khalsa Alliance, while talking with Panthic Weekly, compared the Bathinda incident with the various Nirankari clashes that occurred in the late 1970's. Those clashes came to a climax on Vaisakhi of 1978 when thirteen innocent Sikhs were killed by the armed Nirankaris with the aid of local Police. The Nirankari leader Gurbhachan Sinh had paraded the streets of Amritsar Sahib on Vaisakhi mimicking Sikh traditions. Copying the ideology of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Gurbhachan Nirankari had promised to form 'Sat Sitare' in comparison to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Punj Pyare. That incident had involved hundreds of Sikhs peacefully marching and chanting hymns when dozens of armed gunmen opened fire on them with automatic weaponry.

Silence of Badal and SAD

Not surprisingly, the Shiromani Akal Dal ( government which failed to take any actions against the Nirankaris in 1978 for their rampage is again showing reluctance in taking timely actions against the Sacha Sauda Cult. Neither Parkash Badal, nor his son, the acting Chief Minister of Punjab, was available to comment on this issue. An office bearer of Shiromani Akal Dal (B)'s headquarters told the press that the Chief Minister has asked all Punjabis to work together to preserve the peace in Punjab by rising above ideological differences.

Editors can be reached at editors@panthic.org

[shaheediyan]

Is there a reason why Mr. Barmy (sorry I can't bring myself to call him Gurmeet, Ram or Rahim), also used this same concept of Sat Sitare? Is he or his dera connected to the Nakli Nirankari's?

[fatehsingh]

ur taking panthic.org as factual source for news? :lol: those jokers can't even spell their own names right!

I'd bet a million bux panthic.org has intentionally mistyped the 'sat sitare' to incite the hot-heads... but too bad I don't gamble.. would've made an easy million!

The response with violence and forcing innocent ppl to shut down shops by akali activists is uncalled for... so all this crap happens.. the ram rahim dude gets a celebrity status and special protection from police.. who's paying the price? What an embarassment for everyone this entire ordeal has turned into... great to see our 'panthic' news organizations inciting more barbaric behavior.. ramrahim dude made a mockery of vaisakhi or not is one thing.. but the tbt singh soorme going around shutting down ppl's shops and livelihoods acting like law-less persons have definitely made a mockery out of all Sikhs!

[chatanga]

forcing people to close their shops will only turn these people against them. The Band(closure) of towns is seen as a sign of protest in ravan raj hindustan, i have no idea why. you couldnt really imagine it in uk.

[tSingh]

Well predictably the news this morning has a very clear message to it. This is on the national indian news channel. Inside the dera in Bhatinda (which had a rather well organised publicity stunt on their part) they had 100s of women shrieking with anger at Badal surrounded by loads of news teams last night. Outside the dera 3000 police and Rode and Baba Harnam Singh of Taksal with 20,000 or so in troop (although most of the footage seems to show young jats from villages). While the images from inside are showing a lot of scared women, from outside the only have images of headlights full of young screaming men holding swords. The TV crews were broadcasting live until late last night thinking the place was going to be torn down with a massacre by the 'mob' outside. Thankfully they didn't but behind the images of 1000s of young men screaming brandishing swords was a 'dark ambient' soundtrack on the news item. Then some footage of sunaam pind nr sangrur where one person was shot by police...this another mob burning down a dera.

Is the indian media biased? Hard to say but I don't think so. Even if they are, Akalis etc have given them everything they needed. Some channels are blind to the offence caused and see it as sectarian, but alike any other country, the sight of 1000s of men (reportedly 50,000 last night) carrying swords, axes and guns screaming isn't one that sits well with your middle-class family watching the news in Gwalior or wherever. It just reaffirms every dumb-ass stereotype there is about bara bujhe sardar ji. This is the real damage. Protests and effigy burning is quite normal, but the sense of lawlessness in the later images will affirm people's fear and stereotypes.

[shaheediyan]

Some interesting points by veer Kulbir Singh Ji:

Author: Kulbir Singh

Date: 05-18-07 05:26

The anger towards Sacha Sauda Dera is not purely because of the most recent action taken by Gurmit Ram Rahim the baba of this dera. The roots of this latest agitation by Sikhs lie in the years of provocations done by this dera. For years, Sikhs have been upset at their distortation of Gurbani and targeting gullible Sikhs and brainwashing them. Gurmit Ram Rahim mimicking Guru Sahib is just the last straw that broke the camel’s back. Before this, there have been many wrongdoings from their side.

From what I have heard from Punjab, after losing up to 20 seats in the last elections because of Sacha Sauda effect, the Akalis decided to neutralize this cult and therefore the Dharam Parchar committee of SGPC started doing parchaar of Sikhi in full force in the strongholds of this dera i.e. Bathinda, Mansa and other parts of Malwa. Not taking this very well, the cult leaders did this latest provocation of mimicking Siri Guru Kalgidhar Patshah jee.

It may be true that the Badal Akali Dal may be into it for political reasons but nevertheless, it is still good for the Panth because it has brought unity in Panth and it may force the Sikhs to look within and become better Sikhs. Here are some points that I would like to make with respect to this event:

1) This event has brought unity in Khalsa Panth. In the recent past, this kind of unity has rarely been displayed by Panth. May Guru Sahib do kirpa and Panth may always stay united.

2) I have never witnessed such good media coverage in India, for Sikhs. Almost always the media has been biased against Sikhs but in this case, they are positively covering the Sikh side of events and most of the media has condemned the Dera’s activities.

3) The statements of support from Hindus organizations like RSS, Bajrang Dal and others is a positive step. It does not matter whether they are doing this for some ulterior motive. The truth of the matter is that it is good to hear them praise Siri Guru Gobind Singh jeee and support Sikhs in this battle. By the same token, support from leftist parties and pro-communist parties is also a good thing. Even Congress MPs in the centre have expressed anguish at Dera’s activities. BJP MPs arguing in favour of Sikhs, in the parliament, was good.

4) I have not heard a single statement from Sardar Simranjit Singh Mann and it is pretty sad that at the time of such grave situation, he is fighting non-issues like installation of Beant Singh’s statue in Jalandhar. He has now ended up in jail and thus unable to be fighting for Sikhs. Involvement of Daljit Singh Bittu has been positive.

5) I have heard some shouting anti-Badal slogans and others shouting Khalistan slogans. I believe that this is not the right time and right place for such slogans. It will give the media and anti-Sikh politicians a chance to defame Sikhs. The police too will get an excuse to arrest and suppress this perfectly democratic and peaceful agitation against an anti-Sikh cult leader.

6) Dhadrian and all Sant-Mahatma along with leaders of all Sikh organizations were present at Damdama Sahib. I have heard that Mann Singh Pehowa said that whoever would cut off the head of the cult leader would receive one crore ruppees prize from him.

7) Comparing the Sikh sants with this dera leader is a very far fetched thing. Dhadrian has never mimicked Guru Sahib by making his own amrit or doing other such anti-Gurmat stuff. He did wear chamkeelay clothes but I don't think the idea was to imitate Guru Sahib and he has apologised for committing this mistake.

Just my thoughts.

Kulbir Singh

[fatehsingh]

Agree with t-singh.. this outbreak has brought absolutely nothing positivem, only more stereotyping that sardars r brainless drones that can be manipulated to do al kinds of dirty work for politicians.... ekta?.. ekta in doing what? ravaging cities and causing traffic jams, shutting down people's livelihoods in one of the poorest countries on the planet and injuring civilians?.. someone should arrest these goons for impersonating Sikhs and doing beadbi of Kirpan... I hope no one breaks the news of majbis (whites) in the USA impersonating Panj Pyaras and giving ppl Amrit to these talibans?

[chatanga]

Agree with shaheediyan post,..this outbreak has brought some positves, altho they may not be too transparent yet to some. However what i heard on the news today it seems that the Sikhs have borrowed from Bhai Ram Singhs swadeshi moevment and have cut all ties, personal and commercial with the dera. Dont know how true it is, but something needs to be done. Satguru Fateh Singh what you suggest the Sikhs do, as you disapprove of how they have tackled this so far?

Could it be that just as the Sikhs had disagreements with the namdharis, and in a way forced them to stop certain acts, you view this in the same light?

consider this, its all true. Yesterday Bhai Ram Singh appeared to me in person, and has given me the gurgaddi the Bhai Balak Singh gave to him. i have 2 witnesses to this act and they are going to put it in a book. Thier names are Alam Singh Inder, and Chakrbarti Singh Nidhan. So absolutelty no-one can dispute this at all. Soon the whole world will know, and people will recognise me as the roop of Bhai Ram Singh. Even Bhai Partap Singh will bow to me. I am going to place an advert in the newspapaers of uk and india now. With myself in total in namdhari bana. Watch out for this advert.

[fatehsingh]

chatanga grow up and look at what kind of impact this has on ALL sikhs regardless of sect... is this kind of publicity any different than the hamas and other terrorist groups in palestine get? Don't ask me what to do.. ur Satguru panth (i.e. akal takhat) is not being listened to.. it told them to boycott the dera.. not to act like lawless barbarians.. its on public news the whole world knows about it.. what does this say about Sikhs' respect for the akal takhat's sovereignity?