chatanga Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 " durmat mad jo peevte bikhli pat kamli! is a line in gurbani by Guru Arjan about alcohol. The translation i have used for this comes from sikhi to the max, and also a Taksal steek. I used this translation on a screen at my local gurdwara and the pardhaan went mad after he recieved complaints. PLesae can you offer your or any Gianis tranlsation of this please, as I 'm gonna be up in front of the firing squad ie the alcohol selling/drinking comiittee members. Time is of the essence here. chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 The verse talks about being evil, and has nothing to do with alcohol. its a metaphor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinegar Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 "Those fools, who drink in the wine of evil-mindedness, become the husbands of prostitutes." has nothing to do with alcohol tell them they need english lessons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted May 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 can anyone explain what is the wine of evil mindedness? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Wine is being used as a metaphor. In Maharaj, wine is nearly always used to describe mans infatuation with maya, a state of drunkenness or intoxication for those things that take us away from Parm-atma (just like alcohol does in any case) which veils the drunk's eyes from truth. It is "nearly" always used in a derogatory sense (others may disagree). Gurbani often tells us that wordly wine is weak and insipid, and to find and become intoxicated by the true wine, naam. ਸੁਰਤਿ ਪਿਆਲ ਸੁਧਾ ਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਏਹੁ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਪੇਉ ਰੇ ॥੩॥ My focused consciousness is the cup, and the Ambrosial Nectar is the pure juice. I drink in the supreme, sublime essence of this juice. ||3|| ਨਿਝਰ ਧਾਰ ਚੁਐ ਅਤਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਇਹ ਰਸ ਮਨੂਆ ਰਾਤੋ ਰੇ ॥ The pure stream constantly trickles forth, and my mind is intoxicated by this sublime essence. ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਗਲੇ ਮਦ ਛੂਛੇ ਇਹੈ ਮਹਾ ਰਸੁ ਸਾਚੋ ਰੇ ॥੪॥੧॥ Says Kabeer, all other wines are trivial and tasteless; this is the only true, sublime essence. ||4||1|| 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinegar Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 its not used in a negative sense in that quote shaheediyan. all 'other' wines implies that Amrit is a 'wine' too. Gurbani often says that simran will get you intoxicated on the wine of Naam and you forget worldly pleasures. Its a metaphor, there is no physical 'wine of eveil mindedness'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Says Kabeer, all other wines are trivial and tasteless; this is the only true, sublime essence. ||4||1|| "all 'other' wines implies that Amrit is a 'wine' too." Veer ji, I don't think you meant to say that. The word "other" in this tuk refers to wordly wines (and ways) which are trivial and tasteless, "Amrit" is certainly not included in this grouping. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinegar Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 I stand by what I said tbh, the word 'other' implies wines or intoxicants that are not pure i.e. not based on God or Naam... imo anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Sorry to be pedantic, but your contradicting your self: "all 'other' wines implies that Amrit is a 'wine' too." Then; "the word 'other' implies wines or intoxicants that are not pure i.e. not based on God or Naam..." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Basically all other intoxicants don't compare to the intoxication of Naam (the purest Wine). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 so is Gurmat Mad refering to amrit or naam as an eternal nasha, as durmat mad is refering to the opposite ie the nasha whichs only lasts a while and is of no value? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirpa_karo Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2126 khojee upjai baadee binsae 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 thanks for that info kirpa karo. that verse actually talks about alcohol and the effect it has on a person ie madness enters and wisdom departs, so is this the same as gurmat departing and durmat entering ? also the taksali translation of durmat mad jo peevte... is "those that drink that which brings durmat/madness into the mind they are/have the status of a man who's wife is a prostitute. " this above is the translatiuon i used and the comittee have now forbade me to use this pangati, which i have agreed to, in any future presentations. They were saying that the above translation as given by taksal is not correct. Others have posted that durmat mad is not refering specifically to alcohol, but i still get the feeling that the taksal interpretation is a valid one altho it can be one of many interpretations. Das will value any Gurmukhs help iin the above. And does anyone know what has hapned to Vijaydeep Singh? chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Chatanga, I agree with you here. Ask N3O, he would know, he's a takshali 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I forgot to mention, alcohol is used for merriment, a tonic, and is applicable to wounds... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinegar Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 even that translation doesn't apply to physically drinking anything, metaphorically, doing anything that is conducive to durmat is to 'drink' that which brings durmat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 can you give me anyexamples plz vinegar of what would constitutue durmat? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 And does drinking physical alchohol not bring durmat? Alchohol is the true scurge of the Punjabi community, it has devastated it and caused untold misery and violence to hundreds and thousands of wives, mothers and children. Chatanga, you don't need Gurmat to prove the durmat affect of sharaab, the NSO is all you need (not that bani does not explain it clearly, even though parties that be will twist it to suit their own lifestyle). To see the beautiful affects of sharaab, all one has to do is attend a Punjabi wedding. Seedy night/fight/caste promoting/ninda/ego boosting/name calling club all roled into one. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1091 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/r216.pdf http://www.sirc.org/publik/alcohol_related_violence2.shtml http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/files/200...y%20release.pdf http://www.marininstitute.org/alcohol_policy/violence.htm http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/45856/ Each year, a typical young person in the United States is inundated with more than 1,000 commercials for beer and wine coolers and several thousand fictional drinking incidents on television. Alcohol is involved in 50% of all driving fatalities. In the United States, every 30 minutes someone is killed in an alcohol related traffic accident. Over 15 million Americans are dependent on alcohol. 500,000 are between the age of 9 and 12. Each year the liquor industry spends almost $2 billion dollars on advertising and encouraging the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Americans spend over $90 billion dollars total on alcohol each year. An average American may consume over 25 gallons of beer, 2 gallons of wine, and 1.5 gallons of distilled spirits each year. Pregnant women who drink are feeding alcohol to their babies. Unfortunately the underdeveloped liver of the baby can only burn alcohol at half the rate of its mother, so the alcohol stays in the baby's system twice as long. Each year students spend $5.5 billion on alcohol, more then they spend on soft drinks, tea, milk, juice, coffee, or books combined. 56% of students in grade 5 to 12 say that alcohol advertising encourages them to drink. 6.6% of employees in full time jobs report heavy drinking, defined as drinking five or more drinks per occasion on five or more days in the past 30 days. The highest percentage of heavy drinkers (12.2%) is found among unemployed adults between the age of 26 to 34 Up to 40% of all industrial fatalities and 47% of industrial injuries can be linked to alcohol consumption and alcoholism. In 2000, almost 7 million persons age 12 to 20 was a binge drinker; that is about one in five persons under the legal drinking age was a binge drinker. The 2001 survey shows 25 million (one in ten) Americans surveyed reported driving under the influence of alcohol. This report is nearly three million more than the previous year. Among young adults age 18 to 25 years, almost 23% drove under the influence of alcohol. Drunk driving is proving to be even deadlier then what we previously know. The latest death statistics released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), using a new method of calculation show that 17,488 people where killed in alcohol related traffic accidents last year. This report represents nearly 800 more people where killed than the previous year. Alcohol is the number 1 drug problem in America. 43% of Americans have been exposed to alcoholism in their families. Nearly one out of 4 Americans admitted to general hospitals have alcohol problems or are undiagnosed alcoholics being diagnosed for alcohol related consequences. Alcohol and alcohol related problems is costing the American economy at least $100 million in health care and lost of productivity every year. Four in ten criminal offenders report alcohol as a factor in violence. Among spouse violence victims, three out of four incidents were reported to have involved alcohol use by the offender. In 1996, local law enforcement agencies made an estimated 1,467,300 arrests nationwide for driving under the influence of alcohol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 "metaphorically, doing anything that is conducive to durmat is to 'drink' that which brings durmat...." so could doing anything evil/ thinking anything evil, hearing slander, etc all be classed as durmat? chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 cos that is pretty far reaching and almost everyone but the mahapursh would be included in this group, and I would be the husband of 2 prostitutes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Chatanga, I agree with you here. Ask N3O, he would know, he's a takshali chatanga, i aint taksali .. drawrof is just joking there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Drawrof you are a naughty boy. ok n30 lets have your opinion on this matter anyway. The word durmat in what some of the others are saying would include more or less everyone but the mahapursh in its category. So if the majority of the world falls into this category or even half the world are there enough prostitutes in the world to make this true? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinegar Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 it wasn't an absolute statement - it was a generalisation what I meant was that to 'drink something' was being used metaphorically and referred to the act of intentionally doing something 'bad' on a sustained basis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 This is how I interpret it. Maya is a Wine, drinking it Intelligences departs. Drinking Maya your intoxicated by it, your wealth, home, attachment, fame etc etc. Only by Knowledge can one start understanding God's Will. This is why Guru Ji says that a cup (mind) which is empty (of knowledge) makes the most noise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 I think it is blasphemous that you guys all subscribe to 'khao peeo aish karo mitro, dil par kissay da dukhayo na' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.