was guru nanak dev ji shia muslim?

[Xylitol]

I never said the Gurus never respected those scriptures. Just that they gave all authoritiy to scriptures of Sikh dharm, and did not allow those other scriptures to hold authority over them. They referrred to them b/c truth exists in those scriptures as well as in Gurbani. Also, the Gurus would take whatever prexisting practices from other religions they felt were most suitable, and keep them intact or modify them. Like the saying goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Additionally, if the Guru stated that he does not yield to the Puranas, than I believe him. Why would my Guru lie to me in his Bani? His own life showed that he did not yield, merely kept what he thought was useful, consistent with the idea of Sikh dharm being separate but at the same time accepting that truth exists in other religions.

Also, the same light existed in the first Nanak as existed in the tenth Nanak, the tenth Nanak rejected the authority of the Koran over him, so how could you put an exclusively Muslim flag on the first Guru?

No one said anything against the universal aspects of the Gurus or their teachings.

Did any of the brotherhoods you mentioned in earlier posts give Guruship to a newly written scripture? Did any of them reject authority of the main scriptures of other religions, including religions of their original followers? Without granting authority to the other scriptures, the Gurus gave it to Gurbani. Sikhi is a religion, but it's also a brotherhood of Hindu, Muslim, and Sikh.

[Guest Javanmard]

yes the Ismaili Imam declared the book Pandiyyat e Javanmardi to be a livig Pir. And it is treated as such by Ismaili Shi'as.

There is no expression such as "Sikh dharm" in gurbani. Pure invention.

There is a difference between not relying entirely on scripture and rejecting it. You don't seem to make that difference. And I never said Guru Gobind Sigh was Shi'a did I?

[amardeep]

what is the meaning of the following verse:

ਏਕੋ ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਸਚੁ ਕੋਈ ॥

एको धरमु द्रिड़ै सचु कोई ॥

Ėko ḏẖaram ḏariṛai sacẖ ko­ī.

There is only one religion of Dharma; let everyone grasp this truth.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਸੋਈ ॥

गुरमति पूरा जुगि जुगि सोई ॥

Gurmaṯ pūrā jug jug so­ī.

Through the Guru's Teachings, one becomes perfect, all the ages through.

[Dancing Warrior]

Javi stated

“But what did he do in Baghadad?

He publicly recited the Shi'a adhan which includes the shahada:

I witness that there is no God but God

that Muhammad is his rasul

and that Ali is his wali!

reciting this in front of witnesses makes one AUTOMATICALLY a Muslim!”

Then Javi goes on to state

“How come half of dasam bani deals with puranic material? How come Ram and rahim are used as names of God in gurbani then? Why does Guru Gobind Singh re-use Qur'anic verses?

Unless of course you miss the point of the verse which that Guru Gobind Singh looked beyond religious boundaries.”

So according to Javi, Guru Nanak was bound by Islamic law because he recited the “Shi’a adhna” so that makes him a Muslim! but he then goes on to say “Guru Gobind Singh looked beyond religious boundaries.” So Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s projection and mindset was beyond religious rules, laws and boundaries therefore not bound by any of them.

May I suggest that none of our Gurus were bound by any established system of religious law however glorified or beautified. Actually I also have just recited “Shi’a adhna” and I am still very much the same!

[Mahakaal Singh!]

javanmard has really lost it, too much hankaar has poisoned his mind.

[Kharag Singh]

maharaj dasme patshah, glorifies chandi which in accordance to islam would be considered heracy. So if Pehli Patshah is a muslim, then surly so is Guru Gobind Singh Ji since he is considered the 10th Nanak.

Also dasme pathshah clearly states raam RAHEEM puraan QURAN anke kahe mat ek na manyo. Quite clearly it seems evident that maharaj has denounced rahim and his kataib as he has ordered the panth to ignore such books and religious leaders. So if you say that dasme patshah the 10th Nanak is shia then isnt Maharaj contradicting himself and portraying him self as (lord forgive me) a blasphemer?

[Guest Javanmard]

I see the Sanatan crew is back! Actually the status of chandi i gurbani is such that it fits the status she has in the ginans. So not really a heresy (not heracy as you say). Just in case: Lady Fatimah is called Shakti in the ginans...So not really a heresy... I doubt you know what I mean by mystical Shi'ism. You probably think I am referring to the Khomeini types...but again I am ot surprised.

If Guru Gobind Singh "rejects" the Qur'an why does he quote from it on many occassions. And if her also rejects the Purans the why is dasam bani full of it?

[Kharag Singh]

dasam bani is not full of quotes of the Quran nor the puraans, they are Maharajs own compositions, and are you then calling my kalanidhaan guru a copy cat? also did lady fatimah destroy chand and mund if not then she has no status to that of chandika. Is she reffered to as the "dhulfikar" or any weapon in the ginans? Admin Cut: No Personal Attacks Allowed !

[Guest Javanmard]

Coming from you I take those insults as a compliment. No I don't call Guru Gobind Singh a copycat. But unfortunately for you Guru Gobind Singh clear mentions the Markandeypurana from which the Devi cycle is taken from. As to Lady Fatimah, the status of Shakti isn't limited to Durga alone. It also applies to Radha, Lakshmi and Sarasvati and these devian didn't kill demons!

[Kharag Singh]

you haven't answered my question, but has stalled them which i have noticed you have a tendency to do so

[Guest Javanmard]

She is referred to as Shakti in some Ginans. As to the dhulfiqar, it is mentioned in Sarabloh Guru Granth Sahib.

As to the "kalank to Sikhi" comment: have I insulted you for you to call me names. Maybe we should meet and sort it out next time I am in the UK.

[Kharag Singh]

no problem jehre marji din aajavi

yeh but how can you drag Sarbloh Guru Granth Sahib Ji into it. The ginans and Granth maharaj are two different and separate sources you cant correlate both to prove your point

[Guest Javanmard]

I'll let you know in due time. As to sources: ever heard of intertextuality?

[Kharag Singh]

yes if they were in the same plane, but Granth Maharaj and the ginans are in two different "mediums" thats like correlating the Buddhist Sutras and the Zoroaster books of fire

[amardeep]

Where is the Zulfgar of Imam Ali mentioned in Siri Sarbloh Guru Granh Sahib? i have never heard this before.

[Guest Javanmard]

It's mentioned in a hymn as one of the weapons of the Sarabloh Avatar.

[amardeep]

Is sarabloh Avatar a future manifestation or is he one that has already been manifested on this earth?

[Guest Javanmard]

Like the Durga cycle in Dasam Guru Granth Sahib it seems to me to be meta-historical.

[Kharag Singh]

youve gone off somewhere else now. reread my posts then reply please

[Guest Javanmard]

I already responded to it in another post and thread. It keeps recurring I don't like to repeat myself.

[John]

Admin people on this forum cannot obviuolsy hold a historical discussion and have to resport to name calling.

NOTE I am NOT backing up Javanmard but am stating that if the admins of this forum wish to keep it at a decent level, keep fools out!!!

[amardeep]

admin lock this thread. people are acting like morrons towards javarnmard and the debate is going no where,

[amardeep]

if a friend of mine behaved towards me like that i would have chopped his head of..

[Guest]

sorry guys i was away for the weekend, couldnt really moderate the forum and filter junk out.

I have just cleared all the junk out from this thread.

Again reminder- Keep it clean guys, no personal attacks will be tolerated against fellow members, just freindly warning.

[namjap]

In his lifetime Guru Nanak traveled to distant places and one such place was Tibet. Guru Nanak is well respected by Tibetan Buddhists who consider him a saint; The Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of Buddhists in Tibet, has confirmed it in his discussions with some Sikh leaders and that Tibetans revere Guru Nanak as a Buddhist saint under the name of Guru Gompka Maharaj.

According to the local legends of North Sikkim, some people approached Guru Ji with an appeal for help. The lake had remained frozen during most of the year and rendered it incapable as a source of water. Guru Nanak Dev Ji is said to have touched the lake with his foot, and it has never frozen since. Guru Nanak's footprints, a robe and a water-carrying utensil are preserved in a nearby place called Lachen Gompha. Here the locals refer to Guru Ji as Rimpoche Nanak Guru who on his way to Tibet had rested there.

For full version:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=G...p;printable=yes

Everyone loved Guru Nanak and want to believe that he was a Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, etc.