Niranjana Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 "Ikongkar is bij(seed) of sri guru granth sahib ji, mool mantar is root of sri guru granth sahib ji, japji sahib is summary of whole sri guru granth sahib ji and rest of contents in sri guru granth sahib ji is gyan further explained based on bij, mool and japji sahib(mala mantar)" Using this explanation, if the Mool Mantra is the basic (mool) form (or 'root' as you like to call it) of the Guru Granth Sahib and Ikongkar the bij(seed) mantra, please could you explain how the manglacharan "Ek Ongkar Sat Gur Prashad" fits into this framework. Also, as per Rehit for an Amritdhari Sikh, the mantra for contemplation and 'jaap' is the Gurmantra ("Vahiguru") which alongside the 5 nitnem banis forms the basic daily practice of an Amritdhari Sikh. This being said, how do items such as the 'bij', 'mool' and 'mala' mantra fit into this framework. Thanks, Niranjana. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Niranjana, I don't know answer to your first question. I am not that knowledgeable how mangalcharan frameworks in sri guru granth sahib ji..may be amritpal singh veer ji would be better position to shed some light on this question. As far how bij, mool, mala mantra fits into this framework of maryada is simple. When we take amrit, we are also advised to do mool mantra jap and along with japji sahib(mala mantra) which is one of the five banis. As far as jaap of bij is concerned, then that could also done as additional patt just like sukhmani sahib on side or asa di var..more the better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 "I don't know answer to your first question. I am not that knowledgeable how mangalcharan frameworks in sri guru granth sahib ji..may be amritpal singh veer ji would be better position to shed some light on this question". Amritpal Singh is no longer here on this forum, however there are many here with the good fortune to have sangat of Sants and Babas in the know and who make frequent reference this item, please could the appropriate people bring forth their understanding. "As far how bij, mool, mala mantra fits into this framework of maryada is simple. When we take amrit, we are also advised to do mool mantra jap and along with japji sahib(mala mantra) which is one of the five banis. As far as jaap of bij is concerned, then that could also done as additional patt just like sukhmani sahib on side or asa di var..more the better" Neo, yes we are told to recite Jap Ji Sahib as part of our nitnem, although it is not referred to as the 'mala-mantra' and whilst reference is made to the mool mantra, it is the Gurmantra which we are required to 'jap' and it is the practice of the Gurmantra which Gurbani supports. No where in the Amrit Sanchar is reference made to the 'bij mantra', although we are told to recite Sukhmani Sahib, Asa di Var etc as time permits/our efforts expand/etc. So where do these terms 'bij-mantra', 'mool-mantra', 'mala-mantra', 'gaytri-mantra' etc come from? 3HO incidentally have their own understanding of what constitutes the 'bij' and 'gaytri' mantras... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Veer Ji, Mool-mantar and Gur-mantar are both given to new Khalsa initiates as standardised and accepted tradition amongst all sampradas and jathai - this is one of the few things that every facet of the Panth agrees on. Instruction is given to recite both. However the difference is in what constitutes Mool Mantar - N3O makes repeated reference to the end being 'Gur-prasad' - as far as I am aware, all traditional sampradai teach Mool Mantar upto 'Hosi Bhi Sach' - the latter was certainly what my Panj Pyare taught me. The manglacharan also brings another interesting angle on this discussion - as its most complete form forms the Gur-Prasad Mool Mantar. Not wanting to go off topic, the issue of manglacharan evolution is somewhat dealyt with through the Pothi-Granth tradition studies, would be interesting to have your views on this Niranaja. However as you say - it would be interesting to know where the earliest reference to Mool-Mantar is made - obviously Gur-Mantar is unequivocally backed up by Bhai Gurdas Ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 The mool mantar is mentioned in Gurbani by Guru Arjan i think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Thanks Amardeep, Guru Nanak Dev Ji says: ਮੂਲ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਸਾਇਣੁ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੫॥ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Shaheediyan and Amardeep, I am not wishing to getting into a futile debate as to what constitutes the Mool Mantra (the Sikh Rehit Maryada has made its stance clear on this matter and various sampradhas have done likewise), what I am asking is simply the use of the terms "Bij", "Mool" and "Mala" Mantras within the context of Sikhi. The quote that you provided from Gurbani does not necessarily address the issue, Gurbani also mentions 'bij' mantra in Sukhmani Sahib, however neither this reference or the one provided by you necessarily correlates with the what Neo or 3HO assign to be the 'bij' or 'mala' mantras of the Sikhs. If anything, Gurbani and Sikh texts (i.e Bhai Gurdas di Varan) would seem to suggest that such references in Gurbani all boil back down to "naam" and hence the "Gurmantra". Appreciate your views. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Shaheediyan and Amardeep, I am not wishing to getting into a futile debate as to what constitutes the Mool Mantra (the Sikh Rehit Maryada has made its stance clear on this matter and various sampradhas have done likewise), what I am asking is simply the use of the terms "Bij", "Mool" and "Mala" Mantras within the context of Sikhi. The quote that you provided from Gurbani does not necessarily address the issue, Gurbani also mentions 'bij' mantra in Sukhmani Sahib, however neither this reference or the one provided by you necessarily correlates with the what Neo or 3HO assign to be the 'bij' or 'mala' mantras of the Sikhs. If anything, Gurbani and Sikh texts (i.e Bhai Gurdas di Varan) would seem to suggest that such references in Gurbani all boil back down to "naam" and hence the "Gurmantra". Appreciate your views. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 that shabad is not about vishnu well done for insulting vaheguru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Veer ji I was simply responding to one part of your post: "it is the Gurmantra which we are required to 'jap' and it is the practice of the Gurmantra which Gurbani supports." The collective Sikh tradition and Guru Nanak Dev Ji's tuk above and the all give concrete foundation to the importance and repitition of the sacred Mool Mantar - alongside jap of Gur-Mantar. "If anything, Gurbani and Sikh texts (i.e Bhai Gurdas di Varan) would seem to suggest that such references in Gurbani all boil back down to "naam" and hence the "Gurmantra"." Bhai Gurdas Ji also clarifies the need and importance of Mool Mantar (please note Niranjana veer - I am simply commenting on one element of your discussion - Mool Mantar, not any other part: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਧਿਆਨ ਮੂਲੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਜਾਣੈ । ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਮੂਲ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮਰਣੁ ਪਰਵਾਣੈ । ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਮਕਰੰਦ ਰਸੁ ਪੂਜਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਿਰਮ ਰਸੁ ਮਾਣੈ । ਸਬਦ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਆਣੈ । ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੰਥੁ ਅਗੰਮੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਚਲਣੁ ਭਾਣੈ । Just for general inspiration to others, please listen to this beautiful kathhaa: http://sikhsangeet.com/albumid443-Sant-Sin...ani-Vichar.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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