Creation theories/stories

[Kam1825]

Apologies if this has been posted on here just want opinions on what is the correct creation story, In this forum we have shias, we have nirmalae into vedant and clueless sikhs like myself. The creation theory differs in each case, which is correct, a list of creation stories ar listed below with a brief summary

Creation of the Universe

God is Formless, in Spirit Form, has no particular residence; He is the Creator of all that exists and is Eternal, with No Beginning and No End. Before the act of Creation, when there was nothing, not even the Space, God alone was there, absorbed in meditations. In Bichitar Natak, Chapter 2, it is the Myth of Creation, that is described, not the actual reality as such. The Myths are given to impart specific Moral Lesson, which otherwise cannot be described, as God is Formless, and no one knows the ways and means adopted by God in creation of this infinitely wide and large expanse of the Universe. The Myth is given below –

It is the criticism on certain portions of Sri Dassam Granth, written by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, such as, Bichhittra Natak, Pakhyon Chritras, Chandi Critras, Chandi di Var, etc. , which prompted me to write on this subject. The criticism is on the unusal nature of the events mentioned in these Compositions, their so called conflicting ideology with the Basic Sikh Teachings and their erotic nature. The writings of the Great Divine Guru have provoked astonishment, repugnance and incredulity. These writings have therefore been criticized in most derogatory language and rejected as not of the Guru but an abominable act of an adversary to disrepute him. But on the face of it this charge does not appear to be correct, as the poetry in the said writings are Extremely of Superb Caliber, which no other mortal has hitherto fore achieved.

It is generally said that to be puzzled is to begin to be wise. This is why we remember the Creator Lord as Waheguru. However, this truth is a sad commentary on the wisdom of modern man. Whatever be the merit of our high degree of literacy, we appear to be lacking the gift for being puzzled. Every thing is supposed to be known if not to ourselves, at least to the specialists of the concerned subject. We refuse to be puzzled and humble, as it is embarrassing to us, being a sign of intellectual inferiority. No effort is made to go deep into the matter, and in order to hide our ignorance we begin to discard the knowledge we do not understand as unscientific and unworthy of consideration. This attitude is perhaps the reason why the most puzzling phenomenon in our lives, our dreams, do not give any cause for wonder in us. We all dream, some are strange and fantastic, not understood by us, yet no effort is made to understand them or to understand the action of our minds during sleep in comparison to the working of our minds when we are awake. Perhaps more puzzling is the similarity of creativeness and our mind during sleep with the most primitive creations of man - The Myths. We experience a close similarity in both style and content, and we find these strange and remote when we examine them in the conscious state. Both in dreams and myths dramatic events happen which are impossible in a world governed by the laws of time and space - the hero flees from his work and lives in the body of a big fish, he dies and is reborn, the things of immense magnitude are created and demolished, in persons long dead are re-born, inter-tangibility of human beings and animals takes place, the mythical bird is burned and emerges from the ashes more beautiful than before, etc. Different peoples created different myths just as different people dream different dreams, but despite all other differences one thing is common that they are all written in the same language - The Symbolic Language. This is true of myths of all lands and of all times.

According to Erich Fromm, the World Famous Psychologist -

“Symbolic Language is a language in which inner experiences, feelings and thoughts are expressed as if they were sensory experiences, events in the outer world. It is a language which has a different logic from the conventional one we speak in the day time, a logic in which not time and space are the ruling categories but intensity and association. It is the one universal language the human race has ever developed, the same for all cultures and throughout history. It is a language with its grammar and syntax, as it were, a language one must understand if one is to understand the meaning of myths, fairy tales and dreams. . For the people of the past, living in the great cultures of both East and West, there was no doubt as to the answer to this question. For them myths and dreams were among the most significant expressions of the mind, and failure to understand them would have amounted to illiteracy. It is only in the past few hundred years of Western Culture that this attitude has changed. At best, myths were supposed to be naïve fabrications of the pre-scientific mind, created long before man had made his great discoveries about nature and had learned some of the secrets of its mastery.â€

Myths are derived from the Symbolic Language of the dreams. Dreaming is a meaningful and significant expression of any kind of mental activity during the state of sleep. Psychologists affirm that that dream is the fulfillment of our irrational passions, repressed in our waking state. Sleep is generally identified with the state of "death". In the state of sleep, mind is free to do anything it wishes and is not encumbered by the environments and is free to gratify its wishes in any manner and is capable of unimaginable flights and creativity. Mental activity during sleep has a logic different from that of waking existence. Suppose one feels that a certain person is a coward, in dreams he can see him as a chicken. The change is logical in terms of the feelings, but illogical in terms of orientation to outside reality. As such sleep existence is not lacking in logic but is subject to different logical rules, which are entirely true in that particular state. In myths we find those dream fantasies, which are common to a large number of people and are generally included in folk lore of a tribe or a race, conveying in Symbolic Language religious, philosophical ideas and experiences of Man. If we do not understand the meaning of the myth we either declare it as pre-scientific, naïve picture of the world and history or as orthodox believers in the particular creed take the myth as a true event which actually happened in reality. We see that those who examine these on the surface and reject these compositions as unreal and those who believe these myths as true events are far from Reality, as they have not been able to understand this language. This language is a type of Quiz, and only the learned can solve this riddle. The literary men of repute invariably choose to convey their thoughts in this Symbolic Language. The great thinkers of various cultures and religions of all times have used this language.

The Sikh Gurus have too used this language, which we find in the Scriptures. Sri Guru Gobind Singh a rare thinker of all ages in the use of this language, as no single person has been able to give mythical stories and similes in such a great number as are found in Sri Dasam Granth. We find many new myths and tales in the Guru's Compositions, apart from modification of certain old myths and also translation of certain old myths.

The Initiation Ceremony of Taking the Paul of the Double Edged Sword is based on the Symbolic import of high ideals of Spiritual Regeneration. It is Taking of a New Birth in the House of the Guru-Akalpurkh and is a Solemn Pledge in the August Presence of Guru-Akalpurkh to live by the high ideals as preached in SGGS. Unless we study the Symbolic Language, we cannot interpret properly the Significance of Pahul of the Double Edged Sword and also the symbols Sword and Kada, etc. Ii is often observed that incorrect significance of Pahul Taking Ceremony and keeping of Sword and Kada and wearing of Short Breeches has been made, as mere weapons for defending Dharma, which shows our poor scholarship, and mockery of Sikhism!

We shall in this article study the Myth of "Creation" as given by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji in "Bichhittar Natak, Chapter 2." Before we do this, it is considered helpful to study the myths that existed before the advent of Sikhism.

Babylonian Myth of Creation

(1) The Babylonian myth of Creation (Enuma Elish) tells us of a victorious rebellion of male gods against Tiamat, the Great Mother, who ruled the Universe. The gods formed an alliance against her, and chose Marduk to be their leader in this fight. After a bitter war, Tiamat is slain, from her body Heaven and Earth were formed, and Marduk rules as Spreme God. However, before he is chosen to be the leader, Marduk has to pass a test which seems insignificant and puzzling in the context of the whole story and yet this is the key to the understanding of the myth. The test is as follows -

"Then they placed a garment in their midst; to Marduk, their first born, they said; 'verily O Lord , thy destiny is Supreme among the gods, command to destroy and to create, and it shall be. By the word of thy mouth let the garment be destroyed; command again, and let the garment be whole.' He commanded with his mouth and the garment was destroyed. Again he commanded, and the garment was restored. When the gods, his fathers, beheld the efficiency of his word, they rejoiced and did homage, saying, "Marduk is king." It would be observed that the test was like a trivial magic. In order to understand the meaning of the test, we will have to understand the problem of 'Matriarchy', which is briefly given at the end of the myth. The myth reports the conflict between patriarchal and matriarchal principles of social organization and of religious orientation. The rule of the great Mother is challenged by the male sons. But how can they excel the women, who have the gift of creation in bearing children? Men are sterile in this respect, as the male sperm only impregnates the female ova in womb and thereafter the men's part is terminated. The women in contrast bear the child, give birth to it and then nurse it. It has been proved that in the female child's psyche there is the "penis envy", there are good reasons that before male supremacy was established there was the "pregnancy envy" in men, which even today can be found in numerous cases. In order to defeat the Mother, the male must prove that he is not inferior and that he can produce as well. Since he cannot produce with a womb, he must give a proof of his producing power in another fashion - he produces from his mouth - exhibits the power of his word and thought. This is the meaning of the test Marduk can defeat Tiamat by the force of his thought and talent. The test proves the deep male-female antagonism. With Marduk's victory male supremacy is established. It is said that in the beginning of human history sexual relations were promiscuous - mother's parenthood was only recognized, which was unquestionable. Woman thus became the authority and the law giver, the ruler of the family group and in society.

On examination of the religious documents of Greek and Roman antiquity, it has been found that the supremacy of woman was established not only in social and family organization but also in religion. We find that before the religion of the Olympian gods, there existed a religious order in which goddesses, mother-like figures were the supreme deities. In this male-female protracted struggle, the former defeated the latter, subdued them and established their supremacy. The Patriarchal system thus established, prescribed monogamy (at least so far as women are concerned), by he authority of father in the family. The men thus had the dominant role in the hierarchically organized society. Just as father is the supreme ruler in the family, male gods became supreme rulers over men instead of mother goddesses. Those who have studied the famous epic MAHABHARTA, would have noted the traces of Matriarchal System of Society in India, as most of the characters of the epic were from such a society, where parentage from Mother was recognized.

(2) Biblical Myth of Creation

The Biblical myth begins where the Babylonian myth has ended. Here there is no trace of the male-female conflict, and the supremacy of the male god is established. Marduk's test has become the main theme of the Biblical story of Creation. God creates the world, the woman and her creative powers are not necessary. Here the normal course of woman giving birth to young ones is reversed. Eve is born from Adam's rib (like Athene (Wisdom) from Zeus's head in Greek myth). However, there is an element of independence and superiority of Eve in this myth. She took the initiative in eating the forbidden fruit without consulting Adam. She gave the fruit to Adam, who also ate it. It is after the Fall from the Paradise man's supremacy is again established. God said to Eve, “And thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee.â€

(3) Myth of Creation in Sri Bichitar Natak

Now let us examine the myth of Creation as given in Bachitar Natak by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. This myth is the modification of one appearing in Hindu Religious Books, Puranas.

The Guru states -

“When the Formless God effected the expansion of the Universe by uttering a WORD, He created the Earth. At the onset He created the Matter of five elements (Maya), from it a most beautiful and powerful king named Kalsain (god Vishnu) emerged. The second king produced was Kalkait (god Brahma) and the third Koorrbaras (god Shiva). The Fourth was Kaldhuj (Mahavishnu), from Whom the whole creation emerged. God has thousands of beautiful eyes and thousands of lovely feet. He has enthroned Himself on the bed cushion of multi-headed Hydra Serpent and He is remembered by the people, the One seated on the coiled body of Hydra Serpent. God extracted wax from one of His ears, from which Madh and Kitab were produced. He then extracted wax from the other ear, from which this Universe was created. He then caused Madh and Kitab to be killed. Their body fluids were thrown into the ocean. The gluey and oily matter of their body fluids began to float on the surface of water and from thence onward the Creation was named after Madh. Those who perform good deeds in this Universe are remembered as godly persons, while the evil doers are called demons.â€

“pritham kal jub kara pasara, oankar tai sirast opara. Kal sain prithmai bhio bhoopa, adhik atul bal roop anoopa. (10)

kal kait doosar bhoo bhio, koorbaras tisar jug thio.Kaldhuj. chathruth nirap soey, jeh tai bhio jagat sabh ko hai. (11)

sehas rach ja ko subh sohai, sehes pad jakai tun mo hai. Sais nag par soeibo karai, jugthe saikh saey ochrai. (12)

Aik sarvan tai mail nikara, tatai madh kitab tun dhara. Dutiya kan tai mail nikari, tatai bhei sirast eih sari. (13)

tinko kal bohoar badh kara, tin ko maid smund mo para. Chiken tas jul par tir rehi, maida nam tabeh tai kehi. (14)

Sadh karam jai purkh kamavai, nam daivata jagat kahavai. Kukirat karm jai jug meh karhi, nam asur tin tosabh dharhin. (15)â€

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji in this myth first gives the idea of Guru Nanak as given in Jupji, that the Universe was brought into existence by utterance of One Word by God. In this way God created the Three gods of Hindu Trinity, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, signifying creation of Matter (Maya) of Three Modes, from which the whole Universe was created. God is further stated to be resting on the coils of the body of Hydra Serpent. Serpent. This Myth is the modification of the Puranic Myth of Creation.

Wild animals, sword, staff, sceptre, etc. are the father symbols, or the emblems of power and well recognized Phallic Symbol, which normally appear in dreams. God is depicted as Almighty, and also as Male God. (God is Formless - this is a myth). As regards birth of persons through ears, the myths and legends in all cultures abound in this type of birth. The legends and traditions of Catholic Christian Church mention that the conception of Jesus in the virgin Mary was brought about by the introduction into her ear of the breath of the Holy Ghost. Hanuwant and Karna, heroes of Ramayana and Mahabharta respectively were born through the ear. In connection with Madonna's conception through the ear, Dr. Earnest Jones writes, "In the endeavor to represent the purest and least sensual form of pro-creation that can be imagined, the one most befitting to the Creator Himself, the mind worked surely on the soundest lines by reaching for its basis to the crudest and grossest idea obtainable; it is always through such violently extreme contrasts, as we know from the analytic study of literature, that the greatest psychological effects are achieved."

God in this myth is stated to have created one Man and one Woman through one of His ears, and from the other He created Earth. In whole of this myth of Creation, the Male God is the sole Creator, Who did not take help of any other agency, particularly female one. The first created Man and Woman were named, Madh and Kitab respectively. God is stated to have later caused killing of Madh and Kitab. Killing is the symbolic of the coitus or sexual act, just as riding a horse, car, etc are in all cultures. Mare is a symbolic of a woman, and riding on the back of a mare is the symbolic of coitus. It is therefore riding of mare by the bride grooms on the marriage occasion is the universal practice. Guru Nanak in his Composition 'Oankar' in Ramkali Rag, states, "kam, karodh kaya ko galay." - Sexual Indulgence and Anger waste away the body. Since the fetal existence is identical to the state of death, the act of being killed is associated with the sexual intercourse., which implies a return to the womb. Sea, lakes, rivers, streams, ponds, etc. signify the womb and the process of birth. The killing of Madh and Kitab, therefore, means that they were engaged in the sexual intercourse and the sexual substance fell into the womb of Kitab. (tin ko kal bahor badh kara, tin ko maidh samandar mein para). The glue like oily sexual substance remained floating in the womb and impregnated Kitab, who gave birth to the off-springs. The human race began to be called the progeny of Madh, as Medni. Word ‘Medni’ in Scriptures means the Whole of Human Race. The Guru thus preaches the Patriarchal System of Society, against the Matriarchal System of unwedded women bearing children, which is unethical. The lineage of all must be from the paternal side of the family, which is based on Ethical Principles and disciplined living. At the end the Guru declares that those who would lead a life based on Morality would be honored, and those who would repudiate Morality, would be called the accursed persons.

The concluding Dictum of the Guru in the Myth exhorting people to lead a moral life is the key to the understanding of this Myth. It is surprising that we have not bothered to know the relation of the concluding Dictum to the foregoing text of the Composition. It is this type of our not going deep into the Compositions of the Gurus, has caused confusion in us. We thus wrongly interpret the Gurus' Compositions, and come to the conclusion that these are not theirs.

please i would prefer if this thread remained an educational one rather then insults to fellow forum users. Thank you

[Kharag Singh]

very interesting comparison, you was saying that shrishti came out of ears like in madonna and through her ear was injected christ, well varah avtaar came out of bhrama jis nose, and bhramaji came out of vishnu jis navel, care to explain on that?

[Kam1825]

Kharag Singh i have just copied and pasted all of what is written on the thread, no words from myselfs. As ai stated before i am clueless on this subject thus the reason for starting this thread,

my personal belief on creation comes from the 30th Pauri of Sri Jap Ji Sahib - Ekai Mai Jugat Viaee Tin Chele Parvaan