Dasam Granth and taksal

[SAadmin]

1 minute ago, Kam1825 said:

Damn man I forgot how good the threads on this site used to be about ten years ago

I know, bring back the quality bro. Sikhawareness is everyone's shared baby :P

[Kam1825]

The problem is the topic being discussed are basic and there is no applied knowledge of deeper understanding being spoken about

[amardeep]

20 minutes ago, Kam1825 said:

The problem is the topic being discussed are basic and there is no applied knowledge of deeper understanding being spoken about

There is also a change in people now. In recent years we have had many people here who are obsessed with certain topics (almost bordering OCD level) and they spend all their time merely destroying the forum. They are not here to contribute with anything, - they spend more time causing trouble and ruining the topics than they do actually contributing and spreading their knowledge (which some of them actually do have.. Their knowledge just gets drowned in all the noise and drama they create). It gets too tiresome for many who are here to learn, - hence they leave again..

I dont think we had those same problems 10 years ago when this topic was created - at least there was an understanding here that all were siblings in faith and we are on the same path though we might disagree.. now people here discuss as if we are the enemies of each other and people who disagree have to be destroyed.  This forum indeed has been a great ressource for many of us still writing here and had a great influence on our lives. Too bad with all these haters who are merely here to play games, cause trouble and contribute with zero.

May the Guru bless us all with some akl and make this forum great again.

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by amardeep

[Rock]

About 11 years ago, a Sikh forum was a great phenomenon. People were excited to share with their fellow brothers. Msn was just on the rise & being able to talk to strangers was exciting. Everything was new, technology was new, internet was new.  The value was high because the resources were scarce. And people would find rare gems.

I want to thank kam1825 for their initial efforts in the early days for uploading kathas keertan of various sampardas. I got exposed to many resources through online forums like gurmatveechar.com . 

The original generation who was enthusiastic has gotten older now & busy with other duties of family life. I was a teenager back then & super excited about stuff. As your thinking matures you want to write less and less, and only write when really important. Most importantly engaging in debates and arguments can really disturb state of mind. So for most people it is better to be silent.

I don't think the teenagers or others are interested in these things anymore. They have other things to take their time like instagram, snapchat etc.  I wonder whats the new things these days ?

These days we have many resources on Sikhism like youtube, websites. Thus, forums are not much needed.

Also, I feel that mostly people who are in the academic field or in positions of teaching or professors or PHds, use these forums to practise their writing or debating skills or try to intimidate each other lol.  I wonder where are those big guys like Javanmard, is he still a muslim ? What happened to Freed...he was the image hub.

The truth is over time as we mature our interests shift or we get busy with other responsibilities. 

But you def see some gems here and there & learn some interesting concepts.

 

 

[kdsingh80]

Quote

These days we have many resources on Sikhism like youtube, websites. Thus, forums are not much needed.

Also, I feel that mostly people who are in the academic field or in positions of teaching or professors or PHds, use these forums to practise their writing or debating skills or try to intimidate each other lol.  I wonder where are those big guys like Javanmard, is he still a muslim ? What happened to Freed...he was the image hub.

The truth is over time as we mature our interests shift or we get busy with other responsibilities. 

But you def see some gems here and there & learn some interesting concepts.

Forums are as much needed as they were 10 years ago, more and more people are surfing net and quality discussion can only be found on forums. Unfortunately problem is forums are also funded by a particular ideology and that's why many other people feel alienated 

[dalsingh101]

There's also the issue of delving deep into Sikh history being like opening a can of worms for many. What we discover can be at such odds with today's received wisdom that it just seems to lend itself to conflict. 

People's preconceptions of the past are at stark odds with what we discover when we look at the evidence that we've inherited. People don't readily change the thinking they've been brought up with overnight. Most of the time they'd rather fight the 'new' ideas. Most of us are like this. 

 

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

5 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

Forums are as much needed as they were 10 years ago, more and more people are surfing net and quality discussion can only be found on forums. Unfortunately problem is forums are also funded by a particular ideology and that's why many other people feel alienated 

This is very true.  It is impossible to jump into any topic, even though one might be knowledgeable in that topic, when majority of members on the forum already see you as inferior and in their mind think you know nothing. Case in point, every post I make, I always try to back up with Gurbani. And yes I admit I jump into a lot of the gender equality issue posts, because how can I even contribute in the other posts when many see my gender as a reason to think I am lower or inferior to them? The idea of equality of all humans is supposed to be central to Sikhi, and before that gets sorted its impossible to jump into any discussion on anything else without my gender coming into it. Another thing is ethnicity. Because I am not Punjabi and was not born into Sikhi and because I have to rely that trnaslations are correct (and that the translator is not trying to fix their own agenda) because of that I am thought of an accused of knowing nothing at all. When I have studied quite a bit, granted I have had to use translations. But it means that if I jump into any topic I am ignored because I am accused of knowing nothing at all because I can't speak Punjabi (alienated by ethnicity and culture) and any viewpoint I give which speaks of humans equally having opportunity I get shot down as being feminist (alienated because of my gender and not accepting that I should somehow have less rights). But even then, I try to contribute and I always try to reference Gurbani in my posts. 

What I have noticed by several members on here is that it seems ok to trash character of women openly, and it's done almost constantly like everyone are obsessed with chartiropakhyan. And it's considered more than ok and not seen as women hating. But to even suggest a negative character of men at all is seen as hatred of men. In fact you don't even have to suggest negative character of men at all and just try to counter what is being said about women, and all of a sudden you are accused of man hating. In other words, the prevailing thought is that inequality and discrimination against women is seen as more than ok and upheld as the epitome of Sikhi. But to even suggest that women should have equal rights at all (be seen as equally carrying the divine light and have equal opportunity) is seen as man hating.  Or women suggesting they don't have to be in a subordinate position to men, is seen as man hating scary western feminism. When the entire forum seems intent on women bashing and obsession with charitropakhyan you can't expect women in the forum to NOT feel slagged. The question then becomes was our Guru slagging us, or could charitars be court poets etc? (you know some small hope that Guru Ji was not actually slagging us).  In 404 charitars, 376 are directly pointing finger at women as deceivers, and immoral who would stop at nothing, lying, not even murder to get what they want. There are only comparatively less than 20 which point the finger at the men, and even in those there are undertones still pointing at the woman involved. Then there are a tiny few which paint women as virtuous. The overall feeling is that majority of the deceit and immorality are caused by women, not men. Painting the men as gullible in the stories as some like to point out make the men look bad too... ok but what's the final message? In order to not be gullible, be very wary of trusting women. It still hurts women's character! And one wonders why some rehetnamas tell Singhs to not trust any women, including their own spouse!

Now imagine you were the female gender, not only were all the Gurus male, the first panj pyaras were male, all the main heroic stories are about Sikh men, rehetnamas are written with an almost disdain for women, some even saying women should not read Gurbani in Sangat at all. Some saying women are impure / dirty because of menstruation and childbirth. Women kept from the most prominent or leadership roles. Wives told in some rhetnamas to see husbands as God. Its no wonder some members openly post on here that women are less status than men, downgrades to male bodies, post that although women are part of mankind they will never be men (as if to suggest, women are not as good as men), suggesting that gurbani when it says to see divine light in all, they compare women to insects or pests - as in they can't see the divine light in either and that only a Brahamgiani can. just try for one moment to put yourself in the shoes of a female trying to fit in here with all of the above. How would you feel? Seriously?

And yet to even try to counter any of the above as somehow untrue, you are accused to hating men. And then the hatred filled attacks start. As if to say any woman who challenges her lowly position hates men... because wanting to be treated equally to someone means you hate them. Its just another guilt trip to try to get us to drop it and accept that we are lower. It sucks. It feels like Sikhi is only for men. And in particular on the forum the men on here the hatred is all encompassing. I have never said anything hateful about chatanga or crystal as two examples. But chatanga's hatred continues to this day! As I said I post with actual Gurbani references etc. and the thread will be going fine and nobody hating on anyone and then in walks chatanga and after a few posts of hate filled spewing towards me and condemning once again any idea that women should have equal treatment, the thread gets closed and called kindergarten. And then I get somehow blamed even though I have chatanga blocked and have not said one word to him!  I don't think if a thread is fine and people will disagree on things but if it was completely sane until chatanga posts, then why does the thread have to be locked because of one person getting out of hand, posting hatred? I have blocked him, so why allow him to continue to get away with it?  

I am using gender as an example because it is what I experienced. That and the fact that I cant read Punjabi. Others have been alienated for other reasons, Sikh Khoj for example was hated right out of the forum because he was trying to counter some things. I have seen race hatred being spewed too... about goras, etc.  I have seen hatred spewed because of different religions, because of different beliefs on rehet maryadas, because of different beliefs on even which banis should be recited daily or whether someone wears a turban or not. And anyone who disagrees with someone, are called nindak or guru nindak. The names start flying. 

This really is not a pleasant place to be.  If the majority membership want this to be a taksal specific or nihang specific forum etc, then it should be mentioned on the main page. So that unsuspecting new members won't be hated right off the forum for having a different view.  Right now, the forum touts itself as being Sikhi in general, but its not.

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

16 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

There's also the issue of delving deep into Sikh history being like opening a can of worms for many. What we discover can be at such odds with today's received wisdom that it just seems to lend itself to conflict. 

People's preconceptions of the past are at stark odds with what we discover when we look at the evidence that we've inherited. People don't readily change the thinking they've been brought up with overnight. Most of the time they'd rather fight the 'new' ideas. Most of us are like this. 

 

 

How I look at this...  Some people are so stuck on maintaining things exactly as they were the day Guru Gobind Singh Ji left this world... or how they THINK things were at that moment. But....

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave decision making abilities to the panth. Khalsa now speaks for Guru Ji. Along with that he gave gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib Ji saying that was all the knowledge we need to make decisions. So this to me is proof that Guru Gobind Singh Ji NEVER intended to keep things EXACTLY as they were when he left this world, but that Sikhi is able to evolve for the time and society as long as it does not go against Gurbani. Its proof that Guru Ji was ok with Sikhi evolving, otherwise there would be no decision making ability given to the panth. Everything would have been black and white.  This decision making was not limited to only one group. Panj Pyaras can make decisions and different groups of Panj Pyaras can agree differently on things. This gives rise to different interpretations. And I don't think this is wrong. Guru Ji would have known this would happen that there are different paths in Sikhi. And as long as nothing goes against Gurbani, then why are people so upset and wanting to force their rehet on others etc? I don't get it. 

[das]

20 hours ago, Kam1825 said:

Damn man I forgot how good the threads on this site used to be about ten years ago

So true......those topics were responsible for leading me to register on this website.

These days I think internet being easily available to younger generation to spend their free time and engaging in useless debates. Also, in general I've seen the rise of more rigid/katarpanthis in all religions which is the issue in itself.

As per Rudolf Steiner internet/electronics is part/tool of the system whose responsibility is to deviate the already lost crowd into more superficial spirituality. It is upto to us to differentiate between Real vs Superficial.

Yogi Harbhajan Singh used to say that in 21 century, people will have loads of knowledge available at their finger tips but they won't know how to practicality use it or don't know what to do with this knowledge.

Chalo its just the way time works. There is only one permanent thing which is the Change. But really I love those days because personally my mind was more child like innocent but today he has changed for bad.

Watch this song......I'm sure that everyone will find something near to their heart as per their level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjyGms4hBiw

 

[chatanga1]

20 hours ago, amardeep said:

There is also a change in people now. In recent years we have had many people here who are obsessed with certain topics (almost bordering OCD level) and they spend all their time merely destroying the forum. They are not here to contribute with anything, - they spend more time causing trouble and ruining the topics than they do actually contributing and spreading their knowledge (which some of them actually do have.. Their knowledge just gets drowned in all the noise and drama they create). It gets too tiresome for many who are here to learn, - hence they leave again..

 

Amardeep Singh Ji, this forum has been on a one track path for the last year or so. But as Admins, Neo and yourself should be more active on those who cause this constant disruption.

 

19 hours ago, Rock said:

I don't think the teenagers or others are interested in these things anymore. They have other things to take their time like instagram, snapchat etc.  I wonder whats the new things these days ?

These days we have many resources on Sikhism like youtube, websites. Thus, forums are not much needed.

 

Like most people, even those learning about Sikhi wish to take the easy way out by having it spoon fed to them. I remember before technology and the internet, I used to spend hours upon hours listening to katha, reading books, and with my Vidya Ustad, who I used to keep up, till 10 or 11 at night with questions.

 

Forums are good, and well needed IMO.

[dalsingh101]

I think another thing that has happened is that a few years ago a lot of us had particular questions regarding Sikhi/Sikh ithihaas and a few of us have done a reasonable amount of research (in that time) to have some answers to the questions that we were pondering. 

[amardeep]

13 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

Forums are as much needed as they were 10 years ago, more and more people are surfing net and quality discussion can only be found on forums. Unfortunately problem is forums are also funded by a particular ideology and that's why many other people feel alienated 

I dont think it is unfortunate as such. I think its good that there is a variety of forums each having its own "ideology" which means people can find a sangat of like minded people. If you're AKJ there is tapoban forum for instance, - thats a good place for AKJers to find sangat and do khoj of sikhi the way they prefer. An AKJ'er probably would'n feel like they fit in here. Likewise members of here probably would'n feel like they fit in on tapoban....Today we have sikhawareness, sikhsangat, etc etc.. Each attract a different audience. Diversity is good.

I think the problem is if you have people who dont agree with the overall ethos of the forum and yet keep coming back and back.. Then you start wondering if they are there to learn or just to cause trouble and drama. Why would you even want to spend so much time reading on a forum you dont agree with? You're wasting your own time as well as other peoples time. Then it just starts getting weird and bizarre.

Edited April 6, 2016 by amardeep

[dalsingh101]

If we had to try and elucidate the character of this forum and SS, what would it be? 

I think we post more extracts from Sikh literature than any other forum (I know of) here. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

I would say this forum is heavy on Taksal ideology.  AKJ has been openly slammed on here many times as well as those who follow Sikh Rehet Maryada. Gurmat Rehet Maryada has been touted as the one that vast majority follow on here and any other has been seriously slammed (not just acknowledged as being different but actually hated on, and called the lowest).  This is just my observation... but I think most of you will agree.  Maybe the forum should change its name to Taksal Awareness so as to stop people from thinking it's all Sikh ideology on here. 

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

I would say this forum is heavy on Taksal ideology.  AKJ has been openly slammed on here many times as well as those who follow Sikh Rehet Maryada. Gurmat Rehet Maryada has been touted as the one that vast majority follow on here and any other has been seriously slammed (not just acknowledged as being different but actually hated on, and called the lowest).  This is just my observation... but I think most of you will agree.  Maybe the forum should change its name to Taksal Awareness so as to stop people from thinking it's all Sikh ideology on here. 

I think you really struggle with balanced appraisals myself. 

The diversity on this forum is so wide, and obvious

So you think Bhagat is 'heavy' on Taksal ideology then?, me, Amardeep, Neo, Sikhkosh/Sikhkhoj, Samurai - sure Taksaal is represented, but the fact that you seem totally oblivious to the wide diversity here (which you don't find on other forums) says more about you than anything else. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by amardeep

[CdnSikhGirl]

36 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

I think you really struggle with balanced appraisals myself. 

The diversity on this forum is so wide, and obvious

So you think Bhagat is 'heavy' on Taksal ideology then?, me, Amardeep, Neo, Sikhkosh/Sikhkhoj, Samurai - sure Taksaal is represented, but the fact that you seem totally oblivious to the wide diversity here (which you don't find on other forums) says more about you than anything else. 

I don't mean others are not on here...but I mean that anyone with ideology other than Taksal are alienated and called nindak etc. Ask Sokh Khoj how welcome he feels... Just as one example. 

There are members who every time they refer to Sikh Rehet Maryada call it 'so called' and call anyone who follows it false etc. That was the point it was mentioned that people automatically hate anyone and alienate them if their interpretation is dofferent. Since majority of you follow Taksal ideology, those of us who don't tend to get called the lowest every time we jump into a conversation and our viewpoint is not in agreement with Taksal. 

[Harjots8963]

Haha, guys get out of this thread it's spiraling downward... 

Ruining the first and second page...

Let's just all post more meaningful topics. 

[Singh123456777]

36 minutes ago, Harjots8963 said:

Haha, guys get out of this thread it's spiraling downward... 

Ruining the first and second page...

Let's just all post more meaningful topics. 

I agree

Can amardeep or neo delete the posts in this thread that are not related to the topic at hand?

[Rock]

This forum has the blessings of Sant Ishar Singh Ji Maharaj Rara Sahib wale (n3o knows ) & many other mahapurkhs of Sikh, Buddhist & Hindu traditions.

I have never seen so much praise of Mahapurakhs on any other forum. This is the key to success. Whoever shall bow down to Saints will succeed here & after life.

[Harjots8963]

42 minutes ago, Rock said:

This forum has the blessings of Sant Ishar Singh Ji Maharaj Rara Sahib wale (n3o knows ) & many other mahapurkhs of Sikh, Buddhist & Hindu traditions.

I have never seen so much praise of Mahapurakhs on any other forum. This is the key to success. Whoever shall bow down to Saints will succeed here & after life.

Do elaborate! 

[SAadmin]

Any off-topics will be deleted:

 

 

[Kuttabanda2]

On 10/5/2007 at 11:37 PM, jassasingh said:

in amrit sanchars of damdami taksal the parkash of dasam guru darbar is done in a separate palki but equal to guru granth sahib ... i think from this taksals views of dasam darbar are clear ...

I think that's new, In an Amrit Sanchar 3-4 years ago in California, they only had prakash of SGGS.

[paapiman]

On 7/10/2007 at 6:38 PM, amardeep said:

 i have some pictures from the Gurdwara and Maharaj. really beatutiful

Can you please share those pictures, if you don't mind?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited October 3, 2016 by amardeep

[chatanga1]

On 28/08/2016 at 7:11 AM, Kuttabanda2 said:

I think that's new, In an Amrit Sanchar 3-4 years ago in California, they only had prakash of SGGS.

Maybe to do with it not being in India. IN UK, taksal sinchars only have SGGS.

[amardeep]

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Can you please share those pictures, if you don't mind?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I wrote it some 9 years ago singh sahib, I can't remember what happened to the pics