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user2969

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user2969 last won the day on October 23 2023

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  1. @Sher How long have you lived in Punjab? How many villages have you stayed in and for how many days? All you are doing it quote online news reports. That is not the correct way to judge how a particular society is working. I have lived in Punjab and moved around in many villages all my life. Caste observations are there but I am restricting myself to Gurdwarey issue. Its nowhere like you are portraying. I have been dragged into endless arguments online where people like you keep on coming up with online links and talk out of no practical ground knowledge. I remember a hindu guy from England who had seemingly endless online and he would quote chapters and chapters trying to prove that Hinduism was the best religion and the vedantic spirituality was the highest point in world spirituality and so on and so forth. He himself had never even once visited India! And I tried to counter him saying that Hindu society was very oppresive towards lower castes and that they had trampled over the lower castes for thousands of years. But he would refute my arguments and come up with online links and chapters and chapters of books. I used to wonder how much time and energy he had to do such online research. I gave up. And you know what happened? He had been talking for a while about trying to find a Guru for himself in India. He made a journey and stayed with his relatives in Delhi. He visited some teerth asthaans. He kept up his journalling on the forums. And what turned out? All his illusion about the India society and its glorious vedic ideals turned out to be false. He then started condemning common Indian Hindus and called them as unread and uneducated and this and that. He still would not accept that his utopian ideas based solely on his online reading and offline books were wrong in the first place. He just took to blame Indian Hindu masses for their Intelligence and understanding. I am feeling that this present conversation is going to take a similar direction. I hardly ever post on these forums because in this present times of Kaljug version 2.0 (reloaded) even a smallest spark can start a wildfire; everyone is ready to argue and fight. I shall drop the topic here. I have said that as far as visiting gurdwarey is concerned and partaking in langar, the situation is nowhere as is being presented by you. I say this based on real life experience of 40 years in Panjab. I do not need to study any report online to make a judgement. Yes the caste observations are there but I commented on Gurdwarey situation.
  2. Listen brothers, I know what you are trying to say but try and get the point I am trying to convey. Casteism does exist in Sikh community, of course. And the fact that in many places there are gurdwarey such as Mazabhi, ramgarhiya, ravidassia gurdwarey. But nobody stops anyone from visiting any gurdwara. A mazhabhi does matha-tek in other gurdwarey and nobody objects. Same with langar. The individual cases of dispute are about control at the village and dispute is never truly religious in nature unlike Hindu community where the dispute is truly religious in nature. The issue in the video you posted is a dispute about labour wages. In the second video it talks about discrimination, which I agree does exist. But the discrimination is about control and management. Its not about rules of who can visit which place. not a officially socially accepted norm. It has always been a deviation from the norm. That is why I said till now I have never seen a case of any dispute in my personal life. My rishteydarian are spread out all over southern Panjab with my own village in Haryana near Kaithal, my relatives in Patiala, Sangrur, Nabha. My Nanke in Faridkot district, my massian in Bathinda region, my Bhuaa jis in Fatehgarh Sahib region, my other relatives in Ludhiana etc. The individual cases are mostly rooted in other reasons such as control and caste domination and not truly religious issue. Yes caste observations is a social fact in all punjabi communities. But you can travel all over Punjab and see that even though people follow caste practices, there are no norms such as low caste being openly banned from visiting a Gurdwara. Its a complex issue to explain and all I can say is, do not form a final opinion based upon one or two news report which are often politically manipulated.
  3. ​Out of the many can you name one Gurdwara which refuses entry to a Dalit? ਇਹ ਬੜਾ ਵੱਡਾ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ ਲਾਇਆ ਐ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਤੇ . ਹੁਣ ਸਾਫ਼ ਕਰੋ ਕਿਹੜਾ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਾ ਐਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ? ਕੋਈ ਕਰ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਕਿਸੇ ਜਾਤ ਦੇ ਅਧਾਰ ਤੇ ਵਿਤਕਰਾ ਕਰਨਾ ਕਨੂੰਨੀ ਜੁਰਮ ਹੈ . ਤੇ ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਵੀ ਵੱਡੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕੀ ਥੋਨੂ ਪਤਾ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀ ਦਲਿਤ ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ ਕਿਸੇ ਤੋਂ ਉੰਨੀ ਇੱਕੀ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਨੀਂ ਕਰਦੇ , ਮਰਨ ਮਾਰਨ ਤੇ ਉਤਾਰੂ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਨੇ. ਸੋ ਇਹ ਜੋ ਕੋਰਾ ਝੂਠ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਬਾਰੇ ਦੱਸੋ . ਤਾਂ ਕਿ ਗੱਲ ਸਿੱਖ ਜਗਤ ਦੇ ਮੂਹਰੇ ਆਵੇ ਤੇ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਦਰੁਸਤ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕੇ.
  4. ​I have lived all my life in Punjab, I have not seen a single gurdwara which refused entry to a dalit. Nor was anyone refused in langar. Yes it might have been the case in distant past but not now. Yes there are gurdwaras which are created by particular community and managed by them. But the segregation is limited to management and control. Nobody is refused entry to Mattha-tek SGGS or partake langar. This is a lie.
  5. The point to going and attending somewhere is whether you shall be able to conduct yourself with a respect and dignity that becomes a gursikh. If you shall be able to conduct yourself like a Gursikh you can go to a prom or anywhere else. At a prom probably there might be flirtations with opposite sex, there will be liberties taken, there might be alcohol or some drug or something like that. Ask yourself what kind of environment would there be? Would there be focus on looking sexy and attractive and impressing others and looking cool? All these values are not in line with being a gursikh.
  6. I have had similar experience at sikhphilosophy.net. Most of the regulars over there are not worried about bhagti at all. They are not concerned with the spiritual world at all. In fact as you said most of them are atheist. They seek to interpret Sikhism according to their own modern ways and dismiss everything that is deep or mystical. They have different interpretations about what Sikhi is and none of it includes naam jaap or even baani jaap. For them baani is just meant to be understood. If you point out that bani incessantly tells us recite naam and baani they don't care. Most of the time they make jokes of these things.
  7. One of the popular techniques of simran is swas swas simran. When the breath goes in 'Wahe' is uttered and breath comes out 'Guru' is uttered. My question is how can one say 'Wahe' out loudly when inhaling? In these links although it is claimed that Wahe is uttered while inhaling, but I can not understand how it is possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jP10mUHSo Can anyone explain this please?
  8. Please forgive me for not being updated on the issue, but this phenomenon of sikh girls being exploited by muslim guys, is this quite widespread or large? Here is Canada I have not heard much, although I do have have seen a few sikh girls married into other religions. But then I am not in the youngsters group so I may not know much.
  9. Does anybody have a pdf copy of 'Anand Sarovar- Jeevan Katha of Sant Baba Nand Singh ji'? I have searched online and the file is to be found only on scribd.com. And although I am reading on scribd, I am finding it VERY frustrating. As popular a website as scribd is, the interface is extremely frustrating. I hate it. I need a pdf copy which I can read in my Foxit reader. Please share if anyone has a copy.
  10. I can bet you were brought up in India. Most of us from there have the Ghulam Pravirti. We talk a lot and try to sound intelligent but in our hearts we hold 'Angrez' in a very high esteem. If an Angrez says a word condescending praise our chest fills up with pride. And in our heart we actually do not hold grudge that it were the Angrez who connivingly usurped the Sikh State. All we remember about the British is that they gave us the governance, the trains and the roads. And since they offered us a choice for our homeland in the end their every doing of the past automatically becomes okay.
  11. No further discussion of the topic? Coming from another forum where the thread on topic has been the top one since Gurbaksh Singh ji started his fast with updates everyday, www.sikhawareness.com seems to be lacking in panthic feeling. The issue raised by Gurbaksh Singh ji should have struck a chord deep in hearts of everyone who feels him/herself to be a part of panth.
  12. In which katha does he mentions this. Can you please link to it? And can you please tell us the address of Baba Bahadur Singh ji too?
  13. The translation of the Shabad is incorrect in my view. Instead of being an indication towards usage of Pranayama the Shabad actually is a warning and a comment that pranayama can not lead you to union with Waheguru. To understand the import of the Shabad one has to see that the Rahao lines are always the main theme and from them one can find out whats the correct Bhaav of the Shabad. The Rahao lines are: ਮੂੜੇ ਕਾਇਚੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾ ॥ ਨਹ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Oh fool why are you lost into this bharam (of pranayama)? By this way you have not realised (cheeneya) the Parmanand (Waheguru) by becoming a true bairagee. Some points: 1. The lines have been addressed to a so called bairagi who has given up societal living and has spent time doing practices such as pranayama and other yogic techniques but has not been able to realize Waheguru yet. 2. There is a strong reprimand that the addressee has been indulging in something futle (which from the context one can see to be as pranayama). 3. It is also clearn that the way addressee has been going, on that way Parmanand cannot be cheeneya jaye (experienced or realized). So what is the final word of Guru ji in this Shabad? It is in this line: ਭਣਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਨੋ, ਰਵੈ ਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੋ, ਮਨ ਪਵਨ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ॥ Sayeth Nanak Jan, if you remember the Hari in your mind, the mind shall drink Amrit along with Pawan (every breath/prana movement) Some points: 1. The way to meet Waheguru according to Guruji is 'To Remember Waheguru within the Mind'. 2. If this is done, the mind shal drink Amrit with every pawan, every breath. This is indicating towards Swaas Swaas Simran, remembering Waheguru with every breath. This is the Bhagti Maarg! Remember Waheguru! Here is a translation: ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਸੂਰ ਸਰੁ ਸੋਸਿ ਲੈ, ਸੋਮ ਸਰੁ ਪੋਖਿ ਲੈ, ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਰਤੁ, ਸੁ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ Dry up the surya Saru/pond (fiery nature), fill up the moon pond(cool/shaant nature), with the Jugti (Swas swas simran, as pointed out in the final line) kill your ego, and this way establish a relationship with Waheguru ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ, ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ, ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ. ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੧॥ With the Jugti (swas swas simran) the fish like movement of mind is stopped, the soul shall not fly away from Waheguru and the body shall not be ravaged by desires. ਮੂੜੇ ਕਾਇਚੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾ ॥ ਨਹ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ O fool why do you loose yourself in delusion (of pranayama)? You have not experience the Parmanand (Waheguru) by being a true Bairagee. ਅਜਰ ਗਹੁ ਜਾਰਿ ਲੈ, ਅਮਰ ਗਹੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਲੈ, ਭ੍ਰਾਤਿ ਤਜਿ ਛੋਡਿ, ਤਉ ਅਪਿਉ ਪੀਜੈ ॥ (With the same Jugti) catch and burn the unburnable, catch and kill the deathless, leave aside all doubts, then you shall drink the Amrit. ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ, ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ, ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ, ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੨॥ --as above-- ਭਣਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਨੋ, ਰਵੈ ਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੋ, ਮਨ ਪਵਨ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ॥ Sayeth Nanak Jan, if you remember the Hari with (all) your mind, the mind shall drink Amrit along with Pawan (every breath/prana movement, swaas swaas simran) ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ, ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ, ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ, ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੩॥੯॥ --as above-- Lastly I feel that this does not mean pranayama is something we should all run away from as being a sin. Its just that Guru Nanak's Bhagti Marg is Swas Swas simran and that Waheguru cannot be met by breath control. He can be met by Apaa Varna ( sacrificing oneself completely), by remembring Him all the time , every moment, and this is done through every Swaas.
  14. From a linguistic point of view I shall try and explain. I shall give some detailed background before answering your specific query. ੳ ਅ ੲ ਸ ਹ ਕ ਖ ਗ ਘ ਙ (K varga) ਚ ਛ ਜ ਝ ਞ (Ch varga) ਟ ਠ ਡ ਢ ਣ (T varga) ਤ ਥ ਦ ਧ ਨ (t varga) ਪ ਫ ਬ ਭ ਮ (P varga) ਯ ਰ ਲ ਵ ੜ (Y varga) ਸ਼ ਖ਼ ਗ਼ ਜ਼ ਫ਼ ਲ਼ There are 2 things this varanmala depicts. One is the sound and the other is the name of the letter. So the letter ਕ is used to depict the sound Ka (linguistically written as /ਕ/ ) and the name of the letter is 'kakka'. All the K varga sounds are produced from the back part of the tongue by touching it with the junction of the soft palette and hard pallette of the roof of the mouth. All the Ch varga sounds are produced from the middle part of the tongue by touching it with the hard pallete of the roof of the mouth. All the T varga sounds are produced by turning the blade of the tongue backwards and touching it with the hard pallette of the roof of the mouth. All the t varga sounds are produced by touching the blade of the tongue with the ridge of the from teeth. All the P varga sounds are produced by closing the lips together. The first line, the Y varga and the pairi-bindi varga are produced from various places. And now to the specific query. First let us understand what sound is produced with the letter ਙ. Since it falls in the K varga it shall produced by touching that part of the tongue with the roof of the mouth as are all the letters before it. So try and speak the letters ਕ ਖ ਗ ਘ. You would see that one particular part of the tongue is raised and touched with the roof of the mouth. You must use the same part to speak the letter ਙ. Now what is this sound? This sound is used in punjabi in a hidden manner. it is no longer used in an open manner. Let me give an example. Take the word Ganga. lets break the sound linguistically. ਗੰਗਾ = /ਗ/ + /ਙ/ + /ਗ/ + /ਆ/ There are 4 sounds used in speaking the word Ganga and these are as shown above. So from here we now know which sound is represented by the letter ਙ. It is the sound which is represented by the tippi in word Ganga or Kanga. Now what is the name of the letter ਙ? How do we speak the letter out as oorha, eirhi ? You say it something like unga. Actually while speaking /g/ sound is produced but in a very soft manner. Here is a link to my dropbox audio file pronouncing this sound. https://www.dropbox.com/s/964untbuf0upk7m/Voice%20001.m4a Similar is the case with the letter ਞ And here is how to pronounce it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfymsxm0a4mi34g/Voice%20002.m4a
  15. Brief points: 1. Kaam (desire/lust) has been counted as the first one amongst the five enemies of the jeev-aatma. Kaam is lust for anything NOT just sex. The word comes from Kaamna, desire. 2. Another enemy is 'Moh' or attachment. This refers to the feeling of taking this world, the possessions and people to be true and everlasting and not wanting to let go of them. It also refers to forgetting that we ourselves are impermanent and dying every moment (physical) 3. Sexual relationship apparently fosters both of these enemies. But saying it as a matter of fact, after some time of married life, interest in sex settles down to a comfortable level naturally once you are over the excitement of it. 4.Although Kaam is to be overcome, there is no need to abstain from sex forcefully. When you adopt a spiritual attitude in life and you connect more and more with Gurbani, it shall go down naturally, it is not to be forced. 5. As far as taking Amrit is concerned, one should never hurry it up. One should first start living the lifestyle, get up at amrit vela, do Nitnem, do Naam Jaap, get acquainted with various Baanis. After at least a year or so of this lifestyle when you are sure you can live it up, then go for it. 6 The focus should not be on abstaining from sex and being worried over krodha or being worried that you shall develop attachment. The focus should be to connect with Gurbani more and more and to do Simran more and more.
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