Ali Haseem

Well said :wink:

Well! Maybe I didn't hear what I thought I heard- because I'm again as confused as when I asked the question. So let me re-phrase: Why do you sing? Do you sing words or do you sing. For instance; When Christians sing 'Amazing Grace' the word are the substance and the singing is just an artistic way to convey the message of the words. Thus it can be said: 'Christians sing SONGS" there is nothing particularly spiritual about the act of singing in and of itself. To an Indian (American Variety) singing is the substance. To sing with emotion, without music and in front of ones Kin and Clan exposes one to possibile criticism, rejection, redicule and other junk. Standing before your tribe and singing for days one end so a passed friend can follow your voice to the other side, places one in an extremely vulnerable emotional state but also yeilds a tremendous cathartic release. In many instances the entire community may sing/chant in unison creating a powerful resonance of a few hundred persons openly sharing powerful emotions without fear of judgement and utter unqualified acceptance of each others emotional "nudity". Often the words sung translate into gibberish and make only slightly more sense in the original tongue but it doesn't matter. It is the singing that is important not the words sung. So the question remains--- Do you sing songs? or do you sing? Which is Kirtan?

Thanks all, I think I understand now.

I curious because singing and chanting is an essential part of Native American spirituality. Is it a prayer that is sung?, or is it like our songs? The song itself is the prayer/meditation and the words sung are incidental. When Indians sing we sing to become one with the natural choirs of creation. The word just help us remember the song?

They [souls] do travel in circles like everything else, but not necessarily as individuals. Spokes in a wheel, so to speak. The above clinical definition of Pantheism doesn’t do it justice.

The American Indian is of the soil, whether it be the region of forests, plains, pueblos, or mesas. He fits into the landscape, for the hand that fashioned the continent also fashioned the man for his surroundings. He once grew as naturally as the wild sunflowers and he belongs just as the buffalo belonged.... Out of the Indian approach to life there come a great freedom, an intense and absorbing respect for life, enriching faith in a Supreme Power, and principles of truth, honesty, generosity, equity, and brotherhood as a guide to mundane relations.............. Luther Standing Bear.

The first peace.......is that which comes within the souls of men when they realize their [relationship] with the universe and all its Powers...is really everywhere, it is within each of us."

You have noticed that everything as Indian does is in a circle, and that is because the Power of the World always works in circles, and everything tries to be round..... The Sky is round, and I have heard that the earth is round like a ball, and so are all the stars. The wind, in its greatest power, whirls. Birds make their nest in circles, for theirs is the same religion as ours.... Even the seasons form a great circle in their changing, and always come back again to where they were. The life of a man is a circle from childhood to childhood, and so it is in everything where power moves..... Black Elk