DSM

After viewing the link , i believe we need religion / guidance How do we know if were are doing good or bad ? We don't , I believe we need guidance, guidance can be in sikhs case from the sri guru granth sahib , but we must action the guidance otherwise it is useless.

wahe guru ji ka khalsa wahe guru ji ke fateh The following is an extract from the book Hair Power written by Sarup Singh Alag in particualr his section about Guru, Gurbani and Hair chapter 4 page 81 Sarup Sing Alag also mentions in his book that it is scientifically proven that the hair serves as a factory providing Vitamin D for the body , Vitamin D protects a person against TB , and is essential element for bones,teeth and the nervous system. Guru,Gurbani and Hair Chapter 4 page 84 ( Note :- I will not attempt to quote the whole chapter just part of it , hopefully the translation from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib made by Sarup Singh Alag Guru Nanak describing the beautiful image of God , has said ` Beautiful are thine eyes, relish - giving thy teeth , O Lord Thou art the Lord who hast graceful nose and long hair' SGGS Page 567 Guru Amar Dass Ji , in one of his hymns , says of the beards : ' True are the beards Which touch the Gurus feet They who , night and day , serve the Guru Ever abide in bliss' True are the faces and true the beards of those who utter and practise the truth SGGS page 1419 Reference to hair in Gurubani can also be found as detailed below :- 'With their every hair they utter the Lords name and every moment remember they that Lord SGGS page 1247 With every hair, every hair of mine I meditate on the Lord through the Guru SGGS page 443 In every hair,mind and body of mine is in the pang of separation Without seeing the Lord I can sleep not SGGS page 836 Gods name is permeating every hair of mine The perfect Guru has given it to me in charity SGGS page 1144 In every hair( of mine) dwells the Lord, the Enemy of pride ( SGGS page 344) Baba Farid also says:- Farid, the hair of head are grey My beard is grey , my moutaches are also grey O my thoughtless and insane soul Why enjoyest thou revelments SGGS page 1380 Baba Farid was a pious Muslim Sufi Saint. It is evident from his hymn quoted above that the hair on his head and of his beard and moustaches were intact and unshorn. This reflects the general life style of 13th century people who preferred to keep unshorn hair Bhagat Bhikhan says:- The water flows from mine eyes My body has become weak My hair have assumed the milk-colour Mine throat is choked And cannot utter even a word what can I, a mere mortal, do now ? SGGS page 659 In this hymn Bhagat Bhikhan makes a beautiful reference to his white ( grey) hair Bhagat Kabir also satirizes those who trim their hair :- A) If one gets sidhi through getting oneself shaved off all the sheep would have got liberation In the following couplet he hints if having natural hair by all human beings till death Mans bones burn like the log wood Hair burn like the bundle of grass ( SGGS page 870) Bhagat Namdev in his hymn " Ferry me across the World Ocean ' O the World-Lord,'' addresses Lord-God several times as one posessing beautiful hair For example My body is drowning therein, O my Lord bearing keshas Ferry me across O my Lord bearing keshas ( SGGS page 1196) Or Hail, unto thee , O my darling Father the lord of wealth Thous art long- haired and dark-hued SGGS page 988 How beautiful the hair of Waheguru would be that Bhagat Namdev sees only his hair instead of his other numerous qualities and he sings their praises again and again. Bhagat Ravidas and the Hair Thou beautifully dressest they hair and wearest slanting turban on thy head But this body shall be reduced to a heap of ashes SGGS 659 Besides references to the hair in the Gurbani , we feel pleasure in recording here that the holy hair of Guru Amar Das are still preserved at Goindwal for the benefit of pilgrims visiting the shrine. A few holy hair of Guru Gobind Singh Ji are preserved with the royal family of erstwhile nabha State. Sri Guru Ram Das increased the grandeur of the hair by referring to them as ' a fly whisk [ of his own hair] for the Guru" To cleanse the feet of thine slave with my head hair this is the object of my life. ( SGGS page 500) My Lord, I am sacrifice unto the Gods attendants Making the whisk of my hair I wave it over them. And , the dust of their feet I apply to my face. SGGS page 749 Making a fan of my hair, I have it as a whisk over the saint SGGS page 745 According to verses like ' waving the whisk made of hair' the hair have been termed so pious , excellent and precious that such a whisk should be waved over Akalpurakh alone.

I believe we should maintain heritage at all costs , its our hitory our identity . We should consult top historians / restoratioists when undertaking any work in order to preserve its authenticity, plan work to its finest details even though it may take years to do. I also believe if planned correctly sri harmandir sahib being a tourist attraction as well as a place of worship is not a bad thing, because more people come to visist sri harmandir sahib and ask questions / have guides explaining the history of Sri Harmandir Sahib , people would become more aware of sikhism , knowldege would grow amongst the young and old , regardless of their caste / colour , hopefully have such an impact that they become spirtually enlightened. Not long ago I went to Anand pur sahib , and was shocked that the gurdwarar was painted white i.e. the marble was painted white We need to establish who makes these kind of decisions , also at Sri Harmandir Sahib my family wanted a room so we could stay the night , rather than welcoming us and tellling us the necessary details the seva dars wanted to see our British Passports / Credit card details to check whether we were really from the UK , so that we could get a room . This shocked me and made me think , what about the sangat who aren;t as lucky as us with credit cards British Passports , how would they get a room ? wheres the equality ? wheres the pyar ?

chinderpalsing , there are always 2 side to the story , I agree 100% with what you are saying , if a person says bow down to me then that is wrong and should be dealt with accordingly , especially in the presence of sri guru granth sahib Saying that I have seen him and seen DVD's of him preaching , and I have seen him tell people not to bow infront of him , bow infront of sri guru granth sahib ji. Either he is preaching one thing and practising another or there must be an explanation for this . In india bowing down to elderly people or ustads is a show of respect and not of worship . There will be a minority who bow down to him becuase they think they'' get some sort of spirtual gain from this. When he came to the UK , there was a huge gathering all the halls were full at the gurudawars. When he vistited each hall , there were some people who bowed down to him after he walked passed them. How can you stop that ? There was also people from the sangat collecting money for there cause , even though he said the biggest maya we can give him is that you take something away from the preaching and act on it accordingly and take amrit .

Do you know what purpose he is collecting the money for ? I've seen him when he came to the U.K whether he was fake , hypocrite only god knows . But he was preaching from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and insisting people not to bow down to hime or give any money , I saw it myself , people don't stop , they carry on anyway. His purpose was to make sangat take amrit , is that a bad thing ? Secondly , don' you think everyone does this i.e. make collections 1. If you listen to radio stations , don't they plead the sangat to make donations ( is this wrong also ?) 2. When a gurudawara opens a radio station for 1 month , even though it is from the sangats money that has opened it in the first place , they ask for sponsors on the air ( is this wrong also ?) 3. You get a top ragi performing shabads at gurudawaras , do they perform for free ( i don't think so) then they move from one temple to another. ( is this wrong also) Where do we draw the line ? 4. Personally I believe if you can get something good from a person then take it in otherwise , disgard it.

very nice story taken from :- http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...ic;f=1;t=001992 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't believe that God exists." "Why do you say that?" asked the customer. "Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things." The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist." "How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I am abarber. And I just worked on you!" "No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did,there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside." "Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me." "Exactly!"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I may be related to alot of things but it doesn't mean i eat them every time i see them

i believe that , how would we feel if someone killed our family and ate them , cooked there limbs in olive oil with MDH massala How would we feel ?

Hope this helps you , ( I read your thread and was very sadened to hear you have been through such unhappiness , I don't classify my self knowing everything about sikhism ( more the opposite ) or even put myself in your shoes , I just thought I share the little knowledge which may or may not insert Wahegurus Faith backi in you) you can try :- 1.listening to Kirtan alot 2. Go to gurudwara everyday , or more often , and when there share your feelings with Waheguru 3. listening to katha , and understanding it ( I found Bhai Ranjeet Singh Dhadrian wale katha , very effictive) its simple to understand 4. Reading sikh scriptures inspirational sakis , the history of the gurus etc. 5. listen to Radio if your in the UK evry vaskahi and on siri guru nanak dev jis birthday , council of sikh gurudwaras open a radio station for 1 month ( 24x7 ) constantly about sikhism ( Some discussion topics they have are very inspirational and educating ) OR even on SKY 880 , 926, 900 channels 5. When you have low self esteem or not , when you are walking/ sitting , recite waheguru in your mind .

very good is point k correct Should it read one should NOT ......... BUT think God is in all

Good post , what were your answers ? From the first grasp of answering these questions , I would answer them as follows probably wrong but here goes ) 1. What was the need for sikhism ? reply:- What is the need for any religion ? 2. Yes The Gurus are tolerant of other religions , but not necessarily true that other religions are tolerant of the Gurus. Sikhism believes in one god , it is a universal religion , sri guru nanak dev ji , when preaching did not go round preaching to convert people but to make people aware of what is true and what is false . Sri Guru nanak Devi Ji explained to people if you want to become a muslim become a proper muslim , likewise for christians, hindu etc.. 3&4 Yes sri guru granth sahib is the word of god ? see following post http://allaboutsikhs.com/gurus/gurugranth.htm 5. God sends down new revelations when there is so much hatred, hurt amongst the human race , in this case aurganzeb was converting people to ISLAM by any means possible , no other religion stood up to him , alot even converted. Where were the other religions ? Why didn't they assist in stopping such carnage and oppression? This new revelation put a stop to this , and GURUS gave their lives to this cause so that WE yes WE would not have to go through such torture and oppression. will post more later

the public couldn't record at this venue but there were 3rd party company video recording at this venue , and will publish the ( VCDs/DVDS) in the near future .Like a lot of people I want to get hold of the recording , when / if i do i'll let you guys know .( i am working on this at the moment ) Have you see his site , there are some recordings to listen to , especially his international kerva www.taritabla.com

he was superb , the clarity of the table was un-believeable. The concert was well balanaced , in the sense it wasn;t just classical tabla playing , some modern fusion stuff was played as well

i think when it comes to kaam , it means lusting over other women other than your life partner ( i.e. your wife) is wrong When you mention can't enjoy "sequal material" you don't want to do this , becuase if you are enjoying this kind of " material" then your mind is constantly thinking about these desires . When confronted by the opposite or even the same gender , the images that you enjoyed whilst viewing the "material" are being visualised in your mind and in some extreme cases thats when abuse occurs You should only have eyes for your partner ( i.e. wife , husband)

Who on Punjab radio are broadcasting these bad rumours ? Have anyone heard the exact dialogue , if so are they targeting against Baba Ranjeet Singh Ji ? There has to be some hatred between certain members of Punjab Radio and Channel 926 Amrit.bani In order to pursue this further and mail punjab radio we need a bit more facts , from these facts it may be a good idea to write a standard letter signed by sangat and then sent to them , rather than individual responses.

Also see the article taken form sikh-history.com website http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...ic;f=1;t=001957 Please note: "The SGPC, whose then secretary was also present, had agreed to provide Rs. 1 lakh for getting RSS literature printed." RSS enlisting activists in rural Punjab By Sarabjit Pandher AMRITSAR, JUNE 14. The Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) and its affiliate, Rashtriya Sikh Sangat, are trying to spread their activities in rural areas of the once terrorism-infested border districts of Punjab. After organising public meetings in gurdwaras and schools, the organisations have now begun a door-to-door and personal-level contact programme to enlist activists to spread their ``agenda''. The RSS and its allies have during the past year been trying to impress on villagers in Gurdaspur and Amritsar districts that Sikhs are only a sword arm of the Hindu faith. Attempts were being made to ``educate'' the villagers to guard against attempts by those seeking to institutionalise the separate identity of the Sikhs, who have been dubbed ``Pakistan- sponsored terrorists''. According to the latest edition of the Statistical Abstract of Punjab, its population comprises 62.9 per cent Sikhs, 34.5 per cent Hindus, 1.2 per cent Muslims and 1.1 per cent Christians. Among the Christian population, calculated at around 2.25 lakhs, more than 1.78 lakhs live in the rural areas. A majority of the Christians live in Gurdaspur district, where they form nearly seven per cent of the population. In Amritsar, the community constitutes 1.70 per cent of the population. According to observers, the RSS and its affiliates began contacting people in these areas before the celebrations of the 300th anniversary of the Khalsa in April last. It is being pointed out that the RSS initiated an exercise in late 1996 and early 1997, when the Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD) and the BJP came to power after jointly contesting the elections for the Vidhan Sabha. During the electioneering, the RSS cadre got an opportunity to identify influential persons in rural areas. Under the banner of the Rashtriya Sikh Sangat, the RSS approached these persons on the eve of Khalsa celebrations. The RSS also organised a march from Patna, birthplace of Guru Gobind Singh, to Anandpur Sahib. Top Akali leaders and the then Jathedar of the Akal Takht, Giani Puran Singh, received the processionists. In January and February last, Sikh Sangat activists began testing the waters by approaching influential Akali leaders in the border districts. They organised public meetings and even distributed literature criticising the preaching of Christianity and Islam. At the meetings, the activists would dwell on ``history'' to draw out how ``Muslims'' had tormented the Sikh Gurus and their followers. The martyrdom of Guru Arjan Dev and Guru Tegh Bahadur would be highlighted. A tour of Amritsar and Gurdaspur districts made it clear that the Sikh Sangat had conducted meetings in villages, which were close to the border. The organisation set up headquarters in Fatehgarh Churian town. At Verka town, on the outskirts of Amritsar, it was found that the RSS and its allies had conducted tests in the schools to gauge the knowledge of the children on religion. After the tests in April 1999, a prize distribution function was held. Giani Puran Singh, retired Deputy Commissioner of Amritsar, Mr. Sarabjit Singh, and the former CBI Director, Mr. Joginder Singh, were the guests of honour. The SGPC, whose then secretary was also present, had agreed to provide Rs. 1 lakh for getting RSS literature printed. It is believed that the Sikh Sangat planned to filter ``potential'' students at the school level for further contacting them and their families. They also began compiling data on educated unemployed youth as well as those who had joined the Army, central security forces and the State police. Experts in Punjab affairs are of the opinion that the RSS programme was aimed at co-opting wayward sections of the Sikh youth, which in the late 1970s and 1980s had provided recruits to various pro-Khalistan militant organisations. People trying to diminish sikhi has been going on over 300 years , and I am glad to say sikhi will not diminish , in fact by the grace of Waheguru its making us stronger , making us want to find the truth about sikhi , hopefully creating unity amongst the sikhs

Thank you all your time and input very enlightening The post be SAdmin , a breif attempt of translating the punjabi text is that a sant is the highest of the high, god is always near a sant and is always in anand. What ever god does a sant takes it ver sweetly , a sants ego is so low that a sant believes they are dust under everyones feet A sant keeps 'paap' far away as possible , doing seva of a sant will give you 'phull' ( i may have interpreted it incorrectly ( kemam dha jachak heh) but there is one line kIqy bcnW dI pwlxw krdy hn which i undersdtand as that a sant does bachan Does a sant also do bachan of the Guru Granth sahib

Any references , quotes would be useful. thank you

I don't see what the fuss is all about , if no one has heard the katha Bhai Ranjeet Singh does , then we should listen to it . All his programs are broadcasted on SKY Digital Channle 926 ( Amrit Bani) starting about 8.pm ( worth listening to) The gian he did at Manchester , he mentioned that he is not a Sant but a Sikh whose aim is to make people take amrit. He even tells the sangat not to bow down to him and only bow down to sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji The Gian he did yesterday , he mentioned about money . Alot of people don't know why are spreading rumours that he has come here to collect money , but ( i am not making this up and heard it on Sky channel 926) Bhai Ranjeet Singh said he has never asked for money nor is he in it for the money. The money raised is what people have given because they want to . He also mentions that money should be given to good causes , i.e. the poor and needy and most important of all do seva yourself , go and help the poor yourself so that you know the money you have given is being spent for the right cause. He also mentions that people are spreading bad rumours without knowing the facts and that if these people can prove to him that he is in it for the money , then Bhai Ranjeet Singh would stop doing Gian and Katha There are alot of sceptics out there if you don't like or haven't listened to his Katha then stop spreading bad rumours, we should focus on the good points and act on them . If we don't like his style and katha , then simple, don't listen to him . Following also sums it up ( taken from sikh history web site) http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...ic;f=1;t=001930 I was at the Leeds two divaans. All I saw was a person who had great nimarta, very deep knowledge, a person whose every word was charged with ras. Take a normal giyani or a kirtania and there are many that come over from India, if there is no ras, if there is no ‘kiran’ of naam then there is no anand. Gurbani is gurbani there is no argument here, but from whose atma it is spoken from has a great effect upon who is listening. When Baba ji was doing viakhia you could hear a pin drop, the sangat was hanging on every word, why ? Because Babaji has kumai and that kumai of naam shines through every word they utter. I could stand up on stage and sing my baysura kirtan all day, who will listen to me ??? This is the kirpa of AkalPurkh upon his Sants mahapurkhs, because it is the duty of a sant to japaa naam. As Kabir Ji has said kabeer saevaa ko dhue bhalae eaek sa(n)th eik raam || raam j dhaathaa mukath ko sa(n)th japaavai naam ||164|| It is great to do sewa of both the sant and God. For only God can give you mukhti and the sant urges/helps to recite His naam. All I saw was a person who had a clean white chola on with a clean white hazuria and a clean white dastaar. Okay, the cloth may have been rashami but so what ? Did not Guru Gobind Singh Ji give out awards to his Sikhs who would come to him with the best tied dastaar. Guru Sahib Ji ALWAYS wanted best for his Sikhs. Baba Ji himself said on a number of occasions that there are those Baba’s who spoil the reputation for all of them and I agree there are many of those types who will swindle the sangat and we must be on our guard at all times, BUT we must not paint all mahapursh with the same brush and we must not be so cynical and blasé about it, for that person will not learn and progress on gurmats path.

niranjana, Thats deep stuff way over my head , i don't know whether the below will be of any relevance but don't you believe that if you follow the Gurus teaching by living in the rehat , reciting and practising the bani , doing the daily and evening prayers with love without the mind wondering ( That is the key do path and seva with pyar ), slowly the answers will come to you i.e. keeping it simple taking it one step at a time , because the bani is so powerful , we can waste our whole lives trying to understand what certain things means hence our focus on the overall goal fades . kema da jachak hair

There are alot of people who call them sants the genuine ones you can spot a mile off , plus they will not go on an ego trip and say " hey sangat i'm a sant please follow me " , i don't know whether you have seen him do the Katha , its not about being a Sant or a Baba , i believe thats the mistake a lot of people make , its about what the person is preaching . If the person is preaching the truth in this case , from siri guru granth sahib and following the rehit themselves i don't think it is a bad thing Personally my belief is that call the person what you like , if the person is genuine and in this case preaching about sikhism from siri guru granth sahib then its a good thing , if the person is wrongly preaching then i agree with challenge_everything , give the person a good bashing / expose the person . We should try and learn from them and motivate

I agree that amrit is not to be taken lightly , it should be the persons way of life he also explains that in his katha , that amrit is to keep and once taken the person should visit the Gurudawara regularly , read and practice the bani, and if there is something inside you that is telling you to take amrit then take it In his katha he also explains that if 100 people take amrit out of the hundred probably 70 people will keep amrit 30 will resort back to their old habits , But says 70 is better than nothing , But if the person follows the rehit properly and applies it to their normal life , no way can the amrit be broken . Last couple of days his live katha was broadcast on Sky channel 926

he is very good , i;ve seen him at Guru Nanak Gurudawara smethwick high street, his aim is to make people take amrit after his 2-3 days of katha and kirtan (there were 70 people may be more who took amrit at smethwick ) waheguru His method of explanation is simple and affective , uses simple punjabi so all can understand

Amandeep are you are solicitor ? if not you should be one , you could make loads of pounds Simpleton like me got stuck on the first line , forget translating it can't even pronounce the words I'll have a wild stab in the dark , is the paper about sikhism if so then i'm on the right track and get back to you next year sometime. On a serious note it would be good to read the whole paper but as a guess at what he is saying ( probably wrong ) Is he trying to make people aware of the real Sikh , by explaining the purpose of being a Sikh , it is not merely about having long hair , wearing the 5 Ks and server the British Empire whilst their rule in india , there is more to it than just the physical appearance

it depends on what the complaining is about and it depends on what has happened in the past . I agree its a waste of time complainng about menial things e.g. i wanted chutni with my pakora and not HP sauce It is not necessary that the above are negative , it could inspire you to take positive actions depending on what the resentment / complaint is about so that other people can benefit from your persisitence/actions just a few thoughts