CdnSikhGirl

14 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

That's what some vege extremists need to get into their heads. There would have been a lot of creatures killed in order to get your vegetables on your plate. 

The issue of veg vs meat is moot point. Even Gurbani says: "who is to say what is a green vegetables and what is meat?" 

What is spoken against is the hypocrisy.

If you eat meat then fine. It's NOT against Sikhi! (Only meat that has been ritualistically killed is against Sikhi. And that has nothing to do with the meat, it's the idea of sacrificing and ritual.) 

If you eat veg, then fine be vegetarian.  I am vegetarian, but I eat eggs and dairy. 

However I won't tell someone they can't eat meat.  My choice to be veg is that I can't *personally* eat something that was killed. Hopefully anything that was alive won't be on my plate with my vegetables, however I know that there are always bug parts in cans of vegs etc. and I accept that.  

Farming can take measures to limit unnecessary death like those acoustic fencing (wireless ultrasonic sound).  They repel almost all vermin.  Still yes, some may be accidentally killed. The thing is intent. Which is worse, killing a worm from your garden by accident, or purposely slitting throat of a baby cow so the milk meant for it can be used? And I am not saying don't drink milk... I'm saying at least acknowledge that killing the baby cow has some purpose by advocating the meat be used in a good way instead of wasted.  We have tons of hungry people in the world. 

What IS wrong in Sikhi is the HYPOCRISY! 

WJKK WJKF since I can't contact everyone I built a friendship with on here I will just put here if you wish to get hold of me you can find me at SPN.  

Wish you all well. 

Page 484, Line 15
ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਵਣੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Sācẖā nāvaṇ gur kī sevā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The true cleansing bath is service to the Guru. ||1||Pause||

For all of you who think Bibis are dirty during menstruation, it says the TRUE cleansing bath is SERVICE (SEVA) TO THE GURU!!!!!

So how can you ignore Gurbani, and say that a Bibi is dirty and is unfit to do seva at that time?? You are directly ignoring Gurbani! 

17 minutes ago, das said:

Admins: I guess it would be appropriate to ban these kind of topics......Meat, DasamGranth, Menstruation, Man-vs-Women, or any other This-vs-That.........it's so irritating when this is all you see on the forum.

I guess we all do have better things to do........I admit that when I'm free, I do come to this forum, but these topics are so energy-draining.....obviously, I do have the option not to see it, but I don't know what the creator of these topics get by uselessly arguing over it. It seems like these days everyone (including me) is posting just THEIR own views and then defend THEIR own views.....why we're concentrating so much to teach OTHERS while we ourselves are illiterate (who works on the borrowed knowledge).

Get over it guys and girls. Please spare us all. Raab de vastee.....

Banning these topics means you just don't want to talk about it.  Then nothing changes, and if there are injustices being done, nothing ever happens to fix them because everything thinks the topics should be banned. Can you imagine if lets say the idea of sati, if nobody was allowed to speak against it, and all the men wanted everyone to just shut up about it, women would be still throwing themselves into funeral pyres. Telling women they cant do seva while menstruating is an injustice. Keeping ALL women from important positions such as Granthi, or disallowing ALL women to ever sit on tabiya (never take hukamnama, never participate in Akhand Paaths etc) because women menstruate, is a HUGE injustice. If things we do go against Gurbani, I don't care who's personal rehetnama it is, Gurbani IS directly words from the Gurus! NO REHET MARYADA is direct word of our Gurus! ONLY GURBANI IS! We should NEVER sweep issues under the rug, just because we don't agree with them and want the others to shut up. In a stale mate, use Gurbani to support it. Gurbani trumps RMs. (And any TRUE RM would never disagree with Gurbani... right?)

Many of you stated it has nothing to do with "purity" but instead about just hygiene and cleanliness... what does Gurbani say about cleanliness (as it pertains to religious duty)??

Page 56, Line 1
ਬਿਨੁ ਅਭ ਸਬਦ ਨ ਮਾਂਜੀਐ ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਸਚੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥
Bin abẖ sabaḏ na māʼnjī▫ai sācẖe ṯe sacẖ ho▫e. ||1||
Without the Holy Water of the Shabad, they are not cleansed. From the True One alone comes Truth. ||1||

In other words you can Ishnan as much as you want but without shabad....

Page 91, Line 4
ਸਚੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਰਾਂ ਨਾਵਣੁ ਨਾਉ ਜਪੇਹੀ ॥
Sacẖ sanjam karṇī kārāʼn nāvaṇ nā▫o japehī.
Make Truth your self-discipline, and make good deeds the lines you draw; make chanting the Name your cleansing bath.

There you go, a menstruating Bibi all she has to do is chanting naam.... and that is her cleansing bath.

Page 121, Line 13
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੈਲੁ ਚੁਕਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੮॥੧੯॥੨੦॥
Nānak nām vasai man anṯar gurmukẖ mail cẖukāvaṇi▫ā. ||8||19||20||
O Nanak, the Naam abides deep within the minds of the Gurmukhs, who are cleansed of all their filth. ||8||19||20||

Naam abiding in one's mind cleanses ALL things considered "filth"

Page 200

ਅਨਿਕ ਜਲਾ ਜੇ ਧੋਵੈ ਦੇਹੀ ॥

Anik jalā je ḏẖovai ḏehī.

The body may be washed with loads of water,

ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਸੁਧੁ ਨ ਤੇਹੀ ॥੨॥

Mail na uṯrai suḏẖ na ṯehī. ||2||

and yet its filth is not removed, and it does not become clean. ||2||

Page 265

ਸੋਚ ਕਰੈ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਅਰੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥

Socẖ karai ḏinas ar rāṯ.

You may practice cleansing day and night,

ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਤਨ ਤੇ ਜਾਤਿ ॥

Man kī mail na ṯan ṯe jāṯ.

but the filth of your mind shall not leave your body.

Even the tuk used by many to say that Ishnan in morning (as in bath with water) is required, but if you read what it says it's not actually speaking of a physical water and soap bath....  (please note I advocate a bath every day for personal hygiene but I don't think that is what this is referring to...)

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥

Uḏam kare bẖalke parbẖāṯī isnān kare amriṯ sar nāvai.

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.  (this does not sound like a soap and water bath to me)

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

Upḏes gurū har har jap jāpai sabẖ kilvikẖ pāp ḏokẖ lėh jāvai.

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.  

(aha! And the next line as usual, reveals as much!)

Furthermore, trying to remove "pollution" by washing your physical body is fruitless.... 

Page 331

ਜਲਿ ਹੈ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਥਲਿ ਹੈ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਸੂਤਕ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥

Jal hai sūṯak thal hai sūṯak sūṯak opaṯ ho▫ī.

There is pollution in the water, and pollution on the land; whatever is born is polluted.

ਜਨਮੇ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਮੂਏ ਫੁਨਿ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਸੂਤਕ ਪਰਜ ਬਿਗੋਈ ॥੧॥

Janme sūṯak mū▫e fun sūṯak sūṯak paraj bigo▫ī. ||1||

There is pollution in birth, and more pollution in death; all beings are ruined by pollution. ||1||

If "perceived" pollution is everywhere, then why worry about a few drops of blood??

Page 414, Line 17
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਾਵਣੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥
Anṯar nāvaṇ sācẖ pacẖẖāṇai.
One who cleanses himself within, knows the True Lord.

And, I'm going to post the next tuk as a spearate post because it's the ONE which should put ALL OF THIS TO REST!!! 

4 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

 

 

You three start getting along. 

I have chatanga blocked so I only see his posts when you or others quote him. I had to do that awhile ago because of how he was treating me. so if he argues now, he's arguing with himself because I can't see what he posts. I used to have Paapiman blocked as well and only unblocked him so I could post counter to some of his ridiculous posts which might give new people wanting to find out about Sikhi, the wrong ideas. (Menstruation being one). 

8 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

 Naw, Iron level is low so working on it. Just a tip, I know you wanted my better health but never say to someone go to doctor you might have this. Since mind is so creepy powerful, sometime it takes one thought to manifest some thing in reality and of course negative stuff most of the time lol. If you say this to someone who is not into mind crap that person will start worrying about really having this and that and it can impact him or her a lot. 

Actually it's really common and not anything to be super worried about. It's one of the most common causes of pain during periods and can be treated. I only mentioned it because why suffer??? I would never accept being in pain as normal... Yes I meant it as wanting to help you because you don't have to suffer...

Why is it that any topic which the Singhs feel strongly about regarding women get locked once they think they made their point? If they disagree certain members start screaming till the post gets locked, even when the original people discussing it do so sanely... 

It obviously needs to be discussed because:

1 in original times hygiene products were less and not easily available, meaning the Maryadas of that time were based on what the women at that time had available and not taking into account advances. 

2 because of advances the meaning behind the original no longer holds true

3 the question is impurity vs dirtiness. If original Maryadas were viewing periods as impurity then Gurbani actually speaks against this. If it's only dirtiness then modern hygiene addresses it. Meaning that the original 'rules' should no longer hold. 

So yes it needs to be discussed because we've got nowhere with it. To close threads because the Singhs disagree and think it needs to be pushed back under the rug makes a bad statement. That the forum won't tolerate discussion on anything that tries to right wrongs against women. Can you imagine if it were men told they can't do something? They'd scream blue bloody murder about it. 

These discussions NEED to happen if there is to be any change. Sikhi sees women and men as equal and there should be no needless unequal rules applied to women only. If a Sikh male or female is physically capable of any seva they should not be stopped from doing it. Period. This is what I truly believe our Gurus taught. Rest is male ego. 

43 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

Let some people be happy with their belief and you can be happy with your belief. 

That's the problem. They won't. Remember when Hari Singh Randhawa entered a non Taksali gurdwara in Canada trying to tell the women they were impure dirty during menstruationand could not do seva? He did that in a non DDT gurdwara and all hell broke loose. He was trying to push Taksal ideology at non Taksalis. It didn't work but he was still trying to tell them they were wrong and he was right.  

I don't care if specific sampardas do whatever they want, I won't enter their gurdwaras. That's my choice. But as long as they don't try to run things and dictate what happens at our most holy and well known place like Harmandir Sahib. Otherwise I will have to avoid there too out of principle. (Because why would anyone want to go somewhere where they feel uncomfortable? And I would feel huge uncomfortable going somewhere I know that all the Singhs see me as dirty and inferior. Like maybe women should walk around with a scarlet letter on us or something denoting us as gross inferior and less than... That's how it feels to me being in presence of these supposed Singhs who think women are dirty and impure and deserve less rights in Sikhi... Like I am walking around with a big letter I for inferior in their eyes. Like I am embarrassed to be a female... And it would take away from my spirituality. So I prefer to stay places where women are seen as same level as the men. In Kashmir we are... In fact they already fought it out with DDT who tried to encroach there and said they are not interested.) 

I would recommend a trip to your doctor if it's that bad Bhenji. It's not normal to be in pain... U might have endometriosis or something... 

@kdsingh80  any girl who says they can't stand up during a period is lying. It's possible like anything else to have a medical issue and can cause painful periods but this is a medical issue and not normal. And in that case they should see a doctor, not use it as excuse to not stand up. If it was that bad they should have been in hospital, not at an event where they couldn't even stand. Seriously.... And 99.9999999999% of women do not do that. 

Guest there should be no rule at all. Let women themselves decide whether they think their hygiene is adequate. But there should not be a blanket statement that none on their period can, or else you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. Discriminating all for what maybe a tiny few might do. 

And the elder women thing... Someone should tell them about modern hygiene products LOL it's not 1930 anymore!

20 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

Many of these things were their because of some reasons. I myself have lived in joint family and seen that despite modern things few women were unable to had proper hygiene during periods and there were used to be stains on bedsheets and sometimes even on sofas. so there was always earlier chance of not maintaining proper hygiene

But just because some people can't figure out proper hygiene you can't paint entire gender the same, and use it as a reason to say that no menstruating women can at all... vast majority of women maintain proper hygiene.  And yes, from what I have seen (on here and other forums) is it is the Singhs who are kicking up such a stink about it, not the Singhnis. And Hari Singh Randhawa also created controversy about it in Canada. And in Canada I highly doubt that any woman would have an issue maintaining proper hygiene. Neo is right, there should not even be an issue. 

My anger was directed at statement that men must be telling other men about their wives having periods when the fact is these things are kept secret in Indian culture and hardly any men discuss that .These type of statements just show that just make men scapegoat of everything

See above, as I said, I have not seen any Singhni say that women should not do seva during periods. I have only seen Singhs say so. And not matter of factly either.... their statements are usually expression of disgust when they talk about it.  Did you see the recent post with the stone idol covered in blood and Paapiman's statement just after? That "anyone who thinks women can do seva while on their period (which is an utter disgusting act) should have no problem with the above photo." The idol in the photo was covered, literally from head to toe with either fake (or animal) blood. We are talking it looked like the idol took a bath in a tub filled with blood. Like a massacre happened. This is how menstruation is viewed in his and many other Singh's minds... In reality less than one single ounce is lost during the entire period over a three day or so timeframe.  That equates to about a few drops an hour.  See what I am talking about?

I am not even debating veg vs non veg. It's the hypocrisy I am debating!! LOL

If you eat meat eat meat.... as long as its not Halal etc.  

If you are veg eat veg...

What I am against is on the one hand saying everyone MUST eat veg, but then condoning dairy industry. It's hypocrisy!  If you are going to drink milk or use dairy products, then don't get all upset if the meat from the baby cows is used in a constructive way to feed people. As that is better than letting it rot because you think dairy is ok but meat is not.  

In short, it's the HYPOCRISY I am against. Not either end of the veg / meat debate!   

26 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

As usual blaming men for all problems , The culture of this misandry is now considered as modern. Men never discuss discuss periods of of their wives or even any female relatives with other men .It is always women that discuss these things. 

What's funny is you are whinging about men taking a bit of the blame for repressing and controlling / dominating women, but you don't care about the literally thousands of years of misogyny which has done MUCH MUCH worse to women than any man will ever have to endure?? 

I agree with Neo this should not even be an issue.  Why are these guys so worried about what's going on in some Singhni's kacheras when she is doing seva? 

2 hours ago, das said:

Here you're again forgetting the reality. Paapiman is right that all foods (veg or non-veg) means you're killing something, even a grain of wheat does have a germ........the air we breathe also contains lot of microorganism which we kill after we breathe. So, that the way this damn universe works. It is just a matter of choosing which involves least amount of karmic burden.

Otherwise, this universe's karmic cycle (matrix) is so vast, so complex, so strong that without the Kirpa/Grace it's impossible to break. e.g Our body does have millions of different kind of micro-organisms which survive only till we're alive and they are dead with our death. So, we've to give lekha/hesab-ketab (consequences for our deeds) because we forced the microorganism to die as we left our body (even though we've no control over our death). This is the bhav sagar/Matrix which we have to cross. In order to survive, we have to do karma.

But you are speaking the above almost as an excuse to purposely kill animals when it is not required.  You can look for excuses to justify it all you want.  My personal choice is to go the way of least death (needless deaths anyway) which is working towards vegan.

And ask Paapiman (since we have have each other blocked and he cant see this) that if he is so keen on dairy industry even though the baby cows are killed in order to have milk production, then why is he so against eating that same meat which comes from those baby cows, when at least USING the meat for something means the baby cow didn't die for nothing. At least some humans would have some sustenance from the meat created by his production of his precious glass of milk.  But we all know he is dead set against meat eating... so its better to let the meat rot and the baby cow's death is needless and meant nothing??

That is what is called hypocrisy and is openly condemned in Gurbani.

^^ Exactly.

But that's why some of these Gurdwaras don't allow women to do seva of SGGSJ at all, just to be sure that none are doing it while on their period. Easy way for them to prevent it is to just disallow women to do that seva at all.  This includes akhand paaths, taking hukamnama, etc.

But you are correct. If a Singh can not detect if a woman is on her period or not, then what does it matter? And why do these Singhs even care so much?

15 minutes ago, N30 S!NGH said:

I understand there tends to be over board personality worship/their idea worship but that something to do with followers be stuck with pointer as opposed to what pointer is pointing towards..Whether akj followers with their bhai sahib, 3ho with their yogi, taksali, nanaksar with their sants, nihangs with jathedars so on and so forth.

But with that being said, glory and respect shown towards sants is not all subjective, its part and parcel of gurbani theme of sadh sangat and sat sangat...Gurbani talks about it and encourages their company. Respect and worship are different things. One can deeply respect sants, follow their gurmat gurbani reiterated practical teachings yet not worship them- idiolize them in a way where one's surat- consciousness is totally caught up in their form, worshiping them, worshiping their ideals conceptually without any direct experience with them. Unfortunately, lot of sikhs from all walks of life and jathas are caught up in personality worship/idiolize them in a way where one does not even make effort to follow the message they are trying to convey but rather stuck in a pointer/messenger. 

As they say- being religious is idolizing someone else experience  but being spiritual is bringing up teaching which deeply resonates with one and with right guidance from saints and having its own direct experience.

This is what I am trying to push across ^^^ the parts in the bold!!

Also, 'deeply resonates with one' might not resonate with another. Yet a different person might resonate with that person. Everyone's spiritual path is different, but the destination is the same.

@Rock The Gurbani you quoted, lists qualities that ALL Gurmukhs are to have. We are to ALL remember God with every breath. And we are to ALL strive to actively do it. That means we all can be seen as Saints. What I am trying to get across is that the personalities who sit on a platform, patting heads of worshippers who are bowing to them. Those are to me, NOT what a Saint is. A Saint would realize that there is no difference between the one doing the bowing and him/herself as there is only ONEness. And so they would not feel above that person, so why would they allow worshipping of their form, or of their belongings? The only difference between the Saint and the devotee is that one has not yet had the veil of separation / duality lifted. The other has. From the perspective of the true Saint who knows the truth to reality, there is no difference between the Saint and the one worshipping the Saint. No difference between the King and the Beggar, no difference between High caste and low caste, no difference between male and female. As all are ONE and the forms are temporary and will be destroyed. I would think a true Saint will help others to remove the veil as well, and not be concerned with giving out 'blessings' or sitting on a higher platform, and they would NEVER want their slippers bowed to! LOL

As for the fingernail clippings, I can't say as we established we can't mention names.

9 minutes ago, amardeep said:

You just answered your own question. These Sants give people a subjective spiritual experience, therefore they start venerating them.

But the venerating is where we possibly are starting to encroach into idolatry... Only Waheguru should be venerated no? Yes we should respect someone we *perceive* to be higher spiritually than ourselves. But still, we might be wrong as human mind is prone to err and sometimes people are not who we think they are. And still yet, venerating an aspect of this duality existence, is still living in duality is it not? We should recognize that ultimate truth is ONE. If who we deem to be a Sant is in fact a true Sant (brahamgiani) then there will be no difference between God and them. So it's God we are venerating and not the individual entity. So saving toenail or fingernail clippings, hair, even their slippers or turbans (all physical things) are not what we should be bowing to.  Do you get what I am trying to say?? Physical in the end everything will disappear. Only thing which is real, is not physical. 

59 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Bro, a vegan diet also involves plenty of cruelty to animals.

The below is from another topic.

Quote 

1 scientist in north america did calculation and said that if people of north america shift to beef and dairy products instead of grains then it will result in 80 milion less lost lives of animals as so many rats, rabbits pheasants a birds are killed for harvesting , so no food comes to human plate without killing

Unquote (Kdsingh80 jee)

 

Bhul chuk maaf

This is not true if care is taken in harvesting.  Instead of huge factory farming practices with huge mechanized harvesters, smaller operations can ensure oversight of the crops better and harvest without killing.  Of course accidental killing will always happen and is unavoidable... animals will always try to encroach where there is food growing. However, there is a HUGE difference between accidentally killing something and purposely killing it. It's called INTENT. And INTENT is what Waheguru is concerned with. 

Some examples, organic farming vs one where heavy pesticide used etc. results in many less lives of bees lost due to neonicotinoids.
Good fencing to keep out larger rodents and rabbits etc.
Scarecrows to keep birds away from crops
Now there is something called ultrasonic fencing where high frequency sound is used. It's harmless to wildlife, and we can't hear it but the HF sound is unpleasant so they stay away.  It works on birds, rodents, even deer etc.

Okay we have determined a Sant is entirely subjective.  A Sant to me, might not be a Sant to you and vice versa, so it's someone who is special to you who helps YOU in your own spiritual journey. That means every one of us could be a Sant to someone else as long as we help someone else on their path. It's not a title or position.

If it's not a title or position, then why do many treat it as such? To the point of lavishing in people bowing to them etc? Why do their followers go to the point of worshipping their now departed Sant's personal possessions, or even attributing spiritual powers to things like fingernail clippings? Are these behaviours not dangerously treading upon that which Guru Nanak Dev Ji condemned (idolatry)??

The whole point of the other thread was that of idolatry (in reference to Hinduism influence) which is why it led to this discussion.

6 minutes ago, Lucky said:

What's the reason for slandering the Yogi ?  Did he claim to be a sant?

Satkiran, you don't have to slander to prove that you are white and at the same time NOT affiliated with 3HO.   You can learn tons of stuff from Yogis talks, lectures and videos. He had plenty of gyan to give but it's up to you if want to go low enough to pick the grains of sugar from the sand or stay in the elephant-mind

 

Its not me who claimed these things lol. I am just quoting the news stories I read.  I am not saying he was or wasn't. I am just illustrating a point that he may or may not have been. And how can we ever tell. He was just an example because many people think he was. And many people think he wasn't. So was he? or was he not? That just illustrated my point on the fact that human judgement errs. Both can't be right.

17 minutes ago, Lucky said:

 

Firstly, the aura's are not just about seeing bright white. There's a couple of us on here that have been able to experience them and they are not just about what you see!

And they are not all white either!  There are layers of different colours! At least from what I have seen. And I can tell when someone is ill with something serious like cancer.  Also, I can nearly always tell if someone is pregnant (even before showing or if they tell me).

  Also, not everyone on high avastha can pick up the dristi aspect but will be able to "feel" and "sense" them. They shouldn't be confused with just a "visionary" of some sort and the brightness witnessed is never blinding to the eye (as if to make you look away), but you are either able to hold a connection with it or you completely switch off and don't see anything!! ..........(I know it's difficult to explain) .

It's all energy. Some people can 'see' the energy. Others can feel it. For example think of static electricity. Sometimes you can feel it (hair standing on end) sometimes you can feel it, when it jumps from your finger to a metal object like a door handle. Sometimes you can hear it too! But it's all the same energy. 

 

But I don't think there is some bright blinding light as Rock stated.  I think it's more along lines of what Amardeep stated. That its a personal assessment of someone who might have helped you on your spiritual path etc. But it's not an official title etc.  So going by that, anyone who helps others on their spiritual path are all Sants... in that sense then I guess we all can be a Sant to at least someone.

7 hours ago, N30 S!NGH said:

 

2. We will not discuss personality in this topic, as it gets too subjective. But nice try cherry picking some what controversial figure of recent times and applying same paint brush on whole lineage of sants (sant khalsa) from various spiritual orders of sikhism

 

Who's doing it? Many who consider a saint do by so by reading life stories, gurmat written in gurbani reiterated by them, direct intutive experience.

Please note I am NOT saying Sants don't exist.  

What I am saying is that NONE of us are qualified to judge someone is a Sant or not.  I could call someone a Sant because they have helped me on my spiritual path and they are in my eyes a hugely spiritual person. You might think they are not. You might call someone a Sant who I don't think is.  And the genuine Sants I don't think look for the attention but remain humble and filled with humility.  I don't think a true Sant is one who sits on a platform handing out blessings with people bowing to them and/or looking for microphone and camera time... obviously a lot of people do.  I think I true Sant would help people along the path without ever claiming to be a Sant and without that person ever knowing they have encountered one. So to me, when it says in Gurbani to seek company of the Saints, I think it means generally be pure in your actions etc so as to attract them to you, but I don't think it's telling us to make judgement calls on others whether you think they are a Sant or not.  A true Sant you might never think they are one, because outwardly they remain humble and do not show it. 

1 hour ago, Kam1825 said:

CdnSikhGirl hit it on the head for why I am becoming a Vegan, plus I like making my own nut milks.!!

Are they difficult to make?? I love vanilla almond milk!! 

So the author of the article linked in the OP has stated Sikhi is basically just Hinduism ( or a sect of Hinduism) and that we should accept it. 

If so then why such a fight from most Sikhs who vehemently state that Sikhi DISTINCT? 

Is it true anyway what they said about khanda being a Hindu symbol? I never knew that before. 

However Gurbani says only a Brahamgiani can know the state of the Brahamgiani. It also says we can only judge ourselves and not others. We are thinking by human duality thought as well. So when you meet someone, things like charisma etc tend to play a big role on how we label a person. Case in point all of 3HO consider Yogi Bhajan as a sant (some even possibly a Guru) however since stories emerged about his alleged sex scandals, squandering money, lavishing the attention etc I have serious doubts about yogi Bhajan being anything close to a Sant 

I posted a tuk from Gurbani in the other thread telling how people should never be considered a saint by outward deeds. Yet I can think off hand several who were declared a saint by many and it was based on their outer deeds (and charisma). Because how else are they making a judgement?? Nobody knows what is in another's mind, but they can see their actions. 

Personally I do not think any of us are qualified to declare someone else a Sant or not. Possibly someone who HAS reached Saint level themselves... But not the rest. 

Kam1825 Even if you go by a list of qualities mentioned in Gurbani, ultimately you are making an assumption. You are making a choice of whether to call someone a Sant or not when you never really know for sure. Isn't that dangerous?? Shouldn't we be more concerned with our own spirituality than trying to analyze whether or not someone else is a Sant and then worshipping them and bowing to them?? Couldn't we actually be just creating our own idols? Our minds are prone to err are they not??