Kuttabanda2

What allegations?

Their reasoning is: five men stood up, no woman. So no Seva in the Panj Pyare for woman. However, a woman can put Pataasseh in the Baata as Mata Sahib Kaur had.

Additionally, are you positive this Sri Guru Granth Sahib Satkaar committee?

This is just grotesque! The Elderly shouldn't be beaten like this, this is just pathetic! Even when Bhai Amrik Singh Ajnala encountered someone accused of Beadbi he made it clear not to beat the Old people. The Old Baba was probably not even aware that he was doing Beadbi. They can't do this, this is not the Khalsa. I can't tolerate the abuse of the elderly, women, or children and the moment I heard the scream of this old baba, anger and Sadness just boiled up. And N30 S!NGH, do you have something against Bhindra-Mehta ( and/or it's Offshoots+splinters) Taksalis and Khalistan?

Have a smaller Kirpan in Your Keski. 10th Patshah says: ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਸੀਸ ਪੈ ਰਾਖ ਕੈ ਬੁੰਗਾ ਊਚਾ ਧਾਰ || -Bhai Daya Singh Rehatnama Here's a Small Rehatnama from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee in regards to Kakkars and Kurehats: ੴਸ੍ੀਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹ॥ ਸਿਖੀਰਹਿਤ॥ ਸ੍ੀਮੁਖਵਾਕਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ੧੦॥ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੇਸਿਖੀਈਂਹਰੂਫਪੰਜਕਾਫ॥ ਹਰਗਿਜ਼ਨਬਾਸ਼ਦਈਂਪੰਜਮੁਆਫ॥੧॥ ਕੜਾਕਾਰਦੋਕੱਫਕੰਘਾਬਿਦਾਂ॥ ਬਿਲਾਕੇਸਹੇਚਅਸਤਜੁਮਲਹਨਿਸ਼ਾਂ॥੨॥ ਹਰਫਹਕਾਇਤਅਸਤਈਂਪੰਜਕਾਫ॥ ਬਿਦਾਨੰਦਬਾਵਰਨਗੋਯਮਖਿਲਾਫ॥੩॥ ਹੁਕਾਹਜਾਮਤਹਲਾਲੋਹਰਾਮ॥ ਬਾਚੀਸ਼ੇਹਿਨਾਂਕਰਦਰੂਸਯਾਹਫਾਮ॥੪॥

In my opinion, the Guru is God, but metaphorically. The Gurus were the Servants of God, The messengers and physical representatives. They preached Dhur Ki Bani which is enshrined in The Bani of Gursikhs, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, and Sri Dasam Patshah Ki Granth. Gurbani says: ਿਤਨਪ੍ਰਭਜਬਅਾਿੲਸਮੁਿਹਦੀਅਾ ॥ ਤਬਹਮਜਨਮਕਲੂਮਿਹਲੀਅਾ ॥੪॥ The service that they rendered the Incomprehensible Lord, caused the pleasure of the Supreme Guru (i.e. Lord). ਿਜੳੁਤਿੳੁਪ੍ਰਭਹਮਕੋਸਮਝਾਯੋ ॥ ੲਮਕਿਹਕੈਿੲਹਲੋਕਪਠਾਯੋ ॥੫॥ But the Lord made me understand His Will and sent me in this world with the following words.5. -Sri Dasam Patshah Ki Granth Sahib Jee.

I live in California and I see many Taksali Singhs encouraging Bibia to do Seva of Chaur Sahib, reading Bani from Guru Sahib, make Degh, etc.

You are aware that there is more one Splinter group or faction of DamDami Taksal, right? And they might have differences and opinions that may contradict each other. If the GRM uses the word 'Singh' it doesn't mean it's Sexist, I'm pretty sure the original author didn't intentionally mean only one gender. some Shudh and Gurvaak Rehatnamas and use words that typically denote masculinity, it doesn't necessarily mean that the Rehatnama is only speaking to Male Khalsas.

@truthseeker546 "yeah that's my point, on one hand you have the above verse, and on the other, you have chaubees avtar, chand di vaar. It seems to me that these texts were written by different people who had different ideas about who or what God is, hence the contradictions. As for your point of the avtaar being famous people, this is a weak attempt to try and reconcile the problem. If they were infamous/famous people then why are they mentioned in the chapter of 24 incarnations (of God), there were many famous people throughout history. why are these Hindu Gods mentioned?" The Avtar Katha was made for the Khalsa to learn moral and ethical lessons because those types of stories were more familiar to Indians, as Sikhi started in the Indian subcontinent. Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee is supposed to be understood within the parameters of Sri Guru Adi Granth Sahib Jee's concepts. Again, looking at Dasam Patshah Jee's bani like if it's a foreign Composition which is totally different to Guru Granth Sahib is not really smart, Because that's how people start doubting Dasam Bani.....and Voila! You have Bhasaurias and the Anti- Dasam Bani lobby. If you consider it to be a weak attempt, than that's your opinion. A majority of the Khalsa at the time was of Hindu Background, it's pretty logical to use historical and mythological figures whom they have knowledge of and can relate to. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee might have written about other historical figures and deities as well, we don't have his all of his Bani with us. Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee was made with strenuous effort of Bhai Mani Singh Jee to collect as much as he could. There was also the Vidya Sagar Granth which had compositions of the Kavis and himself. Since it's lost, we're not quite aware of all of it's content, the same goes for other Banis of Dasam Patshah. The entire Khalsa Panth uses Guru Granth Sahib's philosophy when understanding other Granths. As for Chandi Di Var: ਖੰਡਾ ਿਪ੍ਰਥਮੈ ਸਾਿਜ ਕੈ ਿਜਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ੳੁਪਾਿੲਅਾ ॥ "At first the Lord created the double-edged sword and then He created the whole world." ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਿਬਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਿਜ ਕੁਦਰਤੀ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਿੲ ਬਣਾਿੲਅਾ ॥ "He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and then created the play of Nature." ਿਸੰਧ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਿਬਨੁ ਥੰਮਾ ਗਗਨ ਰਹਾਿੲਅਾ ॥ He created the oceans, mountains and the earth made the sky stable without columns. ਿਸਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਿਤਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਿੲਅਾ ॥ "He created the demons and gods and caused strife between them." Note: Devte is used to refer to Hindu Gods (whom we don't consider to be God or divine beings). ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਿਜ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਿੲਅਾ ॥ O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons. -ਚੰਡੀ ਦੀ ਵਾਰ/ ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗੳੁਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ, ਪਾਿਤਸਾਹੀ ੧੦ ^ what does this tell you about Chandi? "Chaubees Avtar was written so that the Sikhs did not have to rely Brahmins/Pandits. " umm so you have most of the dassam granth devoted to these deities. ? that makes a lot of sense. ?" So what if it's devoted to the Hindu Pantheon? It explains the Charitar (character) of each deity. Doesn't necessarily imply that the writer worships them or believe in them to be gods. Again, many of the Sikhs came from Hindu Background, do you expect him to use a figures or mythology irrelevant to their culture and social/cultural environment? "All these Avtars were written by the 10th Guru and the absolute oneness of God was written by the first Guru - either they had very different ideas on God or these books were tampered or changed. " Have you read the 6th chapter of Bachitar Natak? Sri Akal Ustat? Seems like you haven't. "One person gives me an answer these were only famous people not deities, another says no, they are temporary states of God on earth. That's just to point out one contradiction. Is this because some of the people here belong to Tat Kalsa (akali, Nihung) and the others to Sanatan Sikh sabah (nirmalas, namdhari) ???" Most people on here are groupies or members of Nanaksar, Nirmalas, Nihang Dals, or some other sect, and many times even within these sects, there are sub sects, and even within these sub sects people will differ on opinions, though usually the differences are resolved.

I used a quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib on the dieties being famous people ( characters from History and popular mythology) part. Sri Dasam Granth Sahib's philosophy is only understood when in line with Guru Granth Sahib Jee, if you look at them as two seperate scriptures, with no connection to each other, and use no philosophical basis of concepts from the First and primary Granth then you will form incorrect assumptions and conjectures. At least in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure the Gurus weren't God, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib even says so in his Bani. If we keep looking at Sex ( for procreation) as a dirty and impure thing, then we won't understand Banis like Charitaropakhyan ( don't take this the other way).

Chandi, Vishnu, Brahma, Rudra/Shiva etc. Are not Gods, the 10th Patshah didn't worship them, as they (Gurus) make it clear in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Itself. ਜੁਗਹ ਜੁਗਹ ਕੇ ਰਾਜੇ ਕੀਏ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਕਰਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੭॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ "In every age (Jugh/Yuga), He creates the kings, who are sung of as His Incarnations. Even they have not found His limits; what can One speak of and contemplate? ||7||" Note: the Word 'Avtari', The Guru is talking specifically of the Avtars (Hindu Pantheon). ਅਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਾ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਨੰ ਅਨਕ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਵੈਸ਼ਨੰ॥ ਅਨਕ ਰਾਮ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਅਵਤਾਰਨੰ ਅਨਕ ਨਰਸਿੰਘ ਹਰਨਾਕਸ਼ ਮਾਰਨੰ॥-ਜੋਤਿ ਬਿਗਾਸ (ਮੂਲ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ) ਭਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ "There are Countless Brahmas, Vishnus, Maheshes, and countless Devis, Durgas, and Vaishnu Devis. There are numerous Rams and Krishna's Avtars. Countless Narsinghas slaying Harnakashs." There is no conflict between Polytheism and Monotheism in Sikhi, when there isn't Polytheism to begin with. ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ "Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. ||3|| He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation." The Guru has made it clear from the above Tukk that God does not reincarnate/ go through the cycle of birth and death. So how could these Avtars be his direct Incarnations? ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥ ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕਨ੍ਹਹ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ "O, Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him. There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas." ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਿਬਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇੳੁ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭੁਲੇ ਹੳੁਮੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਿੲਅਾ ॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ "Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva wander in the three qualities, while their egotism and desire increase." These "Dieties" are no different than us, they aren't Unique. I've heard 3 points regarding the Hindu Pantheon: 1) The Avtars are like another people (like humans), who exist but are practically nothing special, I was told this from my Taksali Ustad and Akhand Kirtani Jatha. 2) They are/were just People in history who became Infamous or famous due to their actions and the Stories related to them. 3) they are just people. Over all, they aren't supposed to be Worshipped nor are they God(s). ਦੋਹਰਾ॥ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਉ ਛਾਡ ਕਰਿ ਭਜੈ ਦੇਵ ਕੋਈ ਅਉਰ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਾ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਲਹਹਿ ਨ ਸੁਖ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ॥੧੬॥ ਪਾਹਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ ਸਿਖ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਵਹਿ ਸੀਸ ਸੋ ਸਾਕਤ ਨਿਗੁਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਜਗਦੀਸ॥੧੭॥ -ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ "They who leave Akaal Purkh, and start to worship Hindu deities, They will wander through birth after birth, and will never find true peace. They who do idol worship and do not treat another Sikh with respect. That person is forever without a Guru, and is destroyed by the Lord of the world." ਸਵੈਯਾ॥ ਪਾਿੲ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋੳੂ ਅਾਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਅਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂਂ ਮਤ ੲੇਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਬੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ੲੇਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਪਾਨ ਿਕ੍ਰਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਿਹ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ -ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ, ਸ੍ੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਹਿਬ ਜੀ "Svaiyya || O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not acknowledge them. The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this? || 863 || The Guru made his point about these 24 Avtars quite clear in the Chaubees Avtar Bani itself. Chaubees Avtar was written so that the Sikhs did not have to rely Brahmins/Pandits. This Bani was written to envoke the feeling of Dharam Yudh to the Khalsa and give Moral lessons, just like in Sri Charitaropakhyan Sahib. ਚੌਪੲੀ ॥ ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸਿਹ ਿਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਮਨਾੳੂਂਂ ॥ ਿਕਸਨ ਿਬਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਿਹ ਿਧਅਾੳੂਂਂ ॥ ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਿਤਨ ਸੋ ॥ ਿਲਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਿੲਨ ਸੋ ॥੨॥ - ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਅਵਤਾਰ, ਸ੍ੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਹਿਬ ਜੀ Chaupai || "I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Kal (the Immanent Brahman I.e. God).434." Chandi Di Var, Sri Sarbloh Granth/Mangalacharan Puran, Chaubees Avtar, Brahma Avtar, Ram Avtar, Var Sri Bhagat Bhagouti, Hanuman Natak, and Chandi Charitars were written for Bir Raas, giving Moral lessons, and teaching the Khalsa Panth. Sri Dasam Patshah Ki Granth was written to properly shape the Charitar (character) and mind of a Sikh of the Sri Guru Khalsa Panth Sahib Jee.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. I've heard of Shaheed Bhai Amrik Singh Jaura and his Jatha of Nihang Singhs, as well as the Nagoke Singhs (don't know if they're one and the same), and my question is: Are they still around or did they all become Shaheed?

The only way you UK Sikhs can settle these issues with the Pakistani Sullahs is by countering them, and beating the living crap out of them. The Police isn't going to give a crap. They give short sentences to Muslims for rape, child molestation, sexual assault, etc. And ridiculously long sentences to others. We need to rise and crush them. How can you call yourselves Khalsa if you can't live act or live like one?

Yeah, The guy throwing the punches is a dirty Pakistani Turku.

If I'm not mistaking, I've seen those Nihangs before in India, also in a Video ( besides this one) on YouTube or something. Especially the Farla-wala Nihang Singh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. CyberSangat ji (I hope that's appropriate to say), I'm kind of new to this site, and I came here mainly because of the load of questions I had. A few of them are about the 'Khalsa Rehatnama', found in the Gutkas issued by Baba Santa Singh ji of the Buddha Dal. I find It to be quite strange. It had portions from Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji's Bani (his Rehatnama and Tankhanama in specific), a portion from a Gurbilas, Suraj Prakash (I think) and a few other select paurdees (stanzas) from other Rehatnamas and Granths. Why is it like that? Who Compiled the 'Khalsa Rehatnama' of the Buddha Dal? Why are only a select few paurdees in the Buddha Dal's Rehatnama? Also, I know a Akhand Kirtani Jatha Singh and he reads a 'Khalsa Rehatnama' which is a compilation of like 6-7 different Rehatnamas and shabads from Sarbloh Granth and Sri Dasam Patshahi Ki Granth during Amritvela after Nitnem, he has them written down in a few papers. I have never heard of, known of, or seen a Singhni or Singh do that. Is it like an AKJ version of the 'Khalsa Rehatnama' or something? I haven't even seen Akj Singhs or singhnis do something like that. I do paath of a few Rehatnamas, but I don't understand why the Buddha Dal's 'Khalsa Rehatnama' is so short and cut up.