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Nothing :)

3 hours ago, fromherkingsareborn said:

 

Now here is the bit which aggravated me, I asked him if he was part of the committee and he said he was. He then asked me why I asked him that and whether I wanted to join the committee. Now, I had no intention of joining any committee, but just to see what his answer was going to be I said that I did want to be part of the committee - you know what he did then, he laughed in my face and said 'well I'm sorry, but you can't'. I was shocked at this but I decided to laugh back and said 'Oh, really, is it because you think I am a child?' (I'm 21 btw). He then laughed even more and said no, that wast the reason, so i asked him what the reason was and with MASSIVE smirk he said it was because I was a female. I instantly tried to argue my way around this, telling him that this is going against what out gurus say. The worst part - he didn't give a sh*t!! He said why would females be on the committee when it consists of all males who are old. I always asked about arguments during meetings and he owned up saying that they have arguments etc in the darbar hall. 

Sorry to hear about your experience. You need to realize there is quite bit of patriarchy cultural influence super imposed on sikh gurdwara and community So if i were you, i wont even bother with these people who are soo deep rooted in their patriarchy sexist ways. Luckily, seed is not destroyed you could always join woman jatha which help out bring awareness of this issue so that collective consciousness of our community could be raised. 

Here is thread dedicated to sikh woman parcharikhs and saints in our dharam, perhaps you could print it out and show it to this individual:

Why am I not enlightened yet? Amazing discourse..!!!!!!

Feedback as member of this forum not a admin- no where to seen as offical stance of sikhawareness or anything like that:

If its, its pretty sad. May be they should sort the issues out behind the scenes instead of making mockery infront of cops. Also this seems like minor flexiblity it should have been allowed but no ultra right wing patriarchist nut jobs have to ruin it for everyone and get the knickers in twist over five harmless female doing panj pyares (symbolic gesture) holding flags seva. Like seriously? Are they that insecure? Take your rigid pendu stuff some where else....!!. Dont even try hiding behind some maryada stance, some aspects of maryada is subject to circumstances / exceptions. If sikh cannot use bibek when engaging in sharia - maryada...he is same as-

Hindu anna turkhu kana,

dohe tu gyani sayana !! 

5 hours ago, JasperS said:

Because reciting Gurbani with intent to turn poison into amrit would (as in physical posion like cyanide or something) would be like trying to practice black magic or something. At very least it would definitely be ritual which our Gurus got us away from.  Sikhi is pragmatic. Its not about superstitions and supernatural.  The spiritual aspect is inherent in humans but trying to mess with nature is going against his hukam. Cyanide was made a poison for a reason. No human reciting Gurbani over it will ever change that fact. 

But if you feel it can, then please grab a video camera, put some poison in a cup and recite some gurbani and then drink it on video.  That will clear all of our doubts I am sure!

Sometimes I think we are going backward back to Hindu fold with all these superstitious claims. 

Every spiritual traditions in the world have extra ordinary events which is beyond conditioned mind. so whats really is not pragmatic is conditioned mind of individual who like confine things in certain organized conceptual form or belief system that to me is very devoid of being pragmatic as its confined in conditioned mind which isnt open or receptivity to infinite possibilities or give  room for infinite possibilities in realm of infinite expanse of consciousness, the eternal possibility, the immeasurable potential.

Many miracles are acknowledged by science too like how consciousness is moving matters. Not every thing is black and white. Next time obviously people would have doubts on actual amrit ceremony of five heads cut off and bought back life again and baba deep singh ji fighting with his head cut off.

BHAKTI AND JNANA

For devotees of Sri Bhagavan following the path of jnana, the question Who am I? is the key to their endeavours. Yet bhaktas also have an appropriate question symbolizing their attitude of devotion to Sri Ramana - 'Whose am I?'

The two questions represent the thin distinction between two approaches - one in which the ego is burnt up and the other in which the ego melts away.

Thanks for your post. In order to discover if bhramgyani is real lets first discover   IF Bhramgyan is real ?. We can forget about person titles for now, lets discuss if verb - bhramgyan nature itself is real? and if bhramgyan nature its attainable / can be experienced by normal beings? 

Happy Vaisakhi everyone!

I wish i know what they are saying, sounds pretty amazing.

To those who are whining why this topic is locked:

We are way being too lenient, all though we clearly don't have to as if you look at  other forums- first of all they won't approve controversial messages from guest let alone allow one guest (original op) with five different ids to post. We knew op guest using five different ids but we let it still slip through hoping we can discussion at the topic hand, to be fair we did. We wont allow this forum to go into vicious same cycle of arguments and topics. To uphold integrity and quality of forum, we have to lock certain repeated topics more quicker than others so that other discussion like gurbani vichar, meditation- naam simran, self help, self improvement, self reflection etc could take place. 

To be honest, this whole menstrual debate never really exist in real life and still dont in india and here, it started online by bunch of bored punk ass lazy kids from akj and taksal who thrives on controversies on silly stuff.

Subtle hints i picked up too - during possession, her eyes would not blink but would expand a bit never blink also so energy levels that few men have to control her. Ghost can tap into life force (yang) energy inside as well.

This one is quite something too:

1 minute ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Also, 'deeply resonates with one' might not resonate with another. Yet a different person might resonate with that person. Everyone's spiritual path is different, but the destination is the same.

@Rock The Gurbani you quoted, lists qualities that ALL Gurmukhs are to have. We are to ALL remember God with every breath. And we are to ALL strive to actively do it. That means we all can be seen as Saints. What I am trying to get across is that the personalities who sit on a platform, patting heads of worshippers who are bowing to them. Those are to me, NOT what a Saint is. A Saint would realize that there is no difference between the one doing the bowing and him/herself as there is only ONEness. And so they would not feel above that person, so why would they allow worshipping of their form, or of their belongings? The only difference between the Saint and the devotee is that one has not yet had the veil of separation / duality lifted. The other has. From the perspective of the true Saint who knows the truth to reality, there is no difference between the Saint and the one worshipping the Saint. No difference between the King and the Beggar, no difference between High caste and low caste, no difference between male and female. As all are ONE and the forms are temporary and will be destroyed. I would think a true Saint will help others to remove the veil as well, and not be concerned with giving out 'blessings' or sitting on a higher platform, and they would NEVER want their slippers bowed to! LOL

As for the fingernail clippings, I can't say as we established we can't mention names.

 

Preserving, respecting relics of our  beloved Guru's and past gursikhs and sants is tradition in our community and same goes with other spiritual communities in asia- tibetan buddhism, indic spiritual traditions, toaism etc including many first nation communities in canada . This might be slightly hard for colonial west mindset to grasp but everything isn't simplistic, black and white in this world, these things-relics have its contextualized place. 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Okay we have determined a Sant is entirely subjective.  A Sant to me, might not be a Sant to you and vice versa, so it's someone who is special to you who helps YOU in your own spiritual journey. That means every one of us could be a Sant to someone else as long as we help someone else on their path. It's not a title or position.

If it's not a title or position, then why do many treat it as such? To the point of lavishing in people bowing to them etc? Why do their followers go to the point of worshipping their now departed Sant's personal possessions, or even attributing spiritual powers to things like fingernail clippings? Are these behaviours not dangerously treading upon that which Guru Nanak Dev Ji condemned (idolatry)??

The whole point of the other thread was that of idolatry (in reference to Hinduism influence) which is why it led to this discussion.

 

 

I understand there tends to be over board personality worship/their idea worship but that something to do with followers be stuck with pointer as opposed to what pointer is pointing towards..Whether akj followers with their bhai sahib, 3ho with their yogi, taksali, nanaksar with their sants, nihangs with jathedars so on and so forth.

But with that being said, glory and respect shown towards sants is not all subjective, its part and parcel of gurbani theme of sadh sangat and sat sangat...Gurbani talks about it and encourages their company. Respect and worship are different things. One can deeply respect sants, follow their gurmat gurbani reiterated practical teachings yet not worship them- idiolize them in a way where one's surat- consciousness is totally caught up in their form, worshiping them, worshiping their ideals conceptually without any direct experience with them. Unfortunately, lot of sikhs from all walks of life and jathas are caught up in personality worship/idiolize them in a way where one does not even make effort to follow the message they are trying to convey but rather stuck in a pointer/messenger. 

As they say- being religious is idolizing someone else experience  but being spiritual is bringing up teaching which deeply resonates with one and with right guidance from saints and having its own direct experience.

I just watched the original video, good one. Yup, you should be dharam yudha and able to kill your own meat and eat it. However, i wish gyani goes little bit of depth behind nihangs symbolism behind doing chandi di var patt upon doing jhatka and whole metaphysics behind shakti and jhatka aspect. 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

 

Please note I am NOT saying Sants don't exist.  

What I am saying is that NONE of us are qualified to judge someone is a Sant or not.  I could call someone a Sant because they have helped me on my spiritual path and they are in my eyes a hugely spiritual person. You might think they are not. You might call someone a Sant who I don't think is.  And the genuine Sants I don't think look for the attention but remain humble and filled with humility.  I don't think a true Sant is one who sits on a platform handing out blessings with people bowing to them and/or looking for microphone and camera time... obviously a lot of people do.  I think I true Sant would help people along the path without ever claiming to be a Sant and without that person ever knowing they have encountered one. So to me, when it says in Gurbani to seek company of the Saints, I think it means generally be pure in your actions etc so as to attract them to you, but I don't think it's telling us to make judgement calls on others whether you think they are a Sant or not.  A true Sant you might never think they are one, because outwardly they remain humble and do not show it. 

 

 

 

As amardeep has said, its subjective matter. So its not black and white. It's driven by individual's direct experience with them and that varies. I dont think you can judge them with one standard barometer of humility.

Whats our definition of humility and what humility actually is may varies. Our conditioned mind box humility certain way but what we need to realize - there are NO patterns, logic, rational sant/bhramgyan follows thats why gurbani keep its open not closed or confined.

When bhramgyan(pure god realized knowledge) dawns on lucky one, it literally consumes the ego conditioned mind/ personality, its literally identity shift there is NO you or me there is only bhramgyan/truth and from the body its only truth/bhramgyan that flows but there are literally no rules, conditioned patterns , logic, rational you can throw on bhramgyan. Truth cannot be defined as soon truth is defined, we have conceptualized it- made it to idea, boxed it, truth cannot be defined, it could only be realized

 It's a change of occupancy, pure real self (Jagad JOT) takes center stage of being/ core being instead of ego and then pure divine direct hakum unfolds by appearing spontaneously in self realized being(sant)  drives them to benefit human kind and that hakums varies sant to sant and thats why there are various task and nature of sants and bhramgyani. 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

However Gurbani says only a Brahamgiani can know the state of the Brahamgiani. It also says we can only judge ourselves and not others. We are thinking by human duality thought as well. So when you meet someone, things like charisma etc tend to play a big role on how we label a person. Case in point all of 3HO consider Yogi Bhajan as a sant (some even possibly a Guru) however since stories emerged about his alleged sex scandals, squandering money, lavishing the attention etc I have serious doubts about yogi Bhajan being anything close to a Sant

1. Above tuk means - endless play, state or glory of bhramgyani only fellow bhramgyan can truly know but that does not negate existence or effect of bhramgyani around their surronding such  magnetic effect of society of saints which gurbani talks about in various places in gurbani. In other words, its not the people who merely coming across with them, its the drawing magentic emitting force which draw people(neddles) in. 

2. We will not discuss personality in this topic, as it gets too subjective. But nice try cherry picking some what controversial figure of recent times and applying same paint brush on whole lineage of sants (sant khalsa) from various spiritual orders of sikhism

Quote

I posted a tuk from Gurbani in the other thread telling how people should never be considered a saint by outward deeds. Yet I can think off hand several who were declared a saint by many and it was based on their outer deeds (and charisma). Because how else are they making a judgement?? Nobody knows what is in another's mind, but they can see their actions. 

Who's doing it? Many who consider a saint do by so by reading life stories, gurmat written in gurbani reiterated by them, direct intutive experience.

18 minutes ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

@Rock

You wanted a new post for fear of going off topic.

Please tell me (and others) by what criteria do we determine if someone we meet on the street is a Sant or not? And how do we think we have any authority to ever make that assumption about someone? 

 

 

 

My own two cents:

You would know if someone is sant or not if you are only open to them , if you can be open and receptive towards them then you will notice subtle hints of their awakened spirit/awakened mind- jot saroop,  your doubts might get clear in their company just by their presence, your mind/thoughts might just drop off for few secs/minute and you enjoy your real self-cosmic spirit. There is no easy conceptual answer to this. All i can say, our pure intuition/cognition (not be confused with skeptical mind) will validate if we have met sant/saint or not.

Please use this topic as reference, will have this topic open for now and watch it closely. 

Any off-topics will be deleted:

I see disturbing trend on many threads, off-topics are runining thread/topic at hand. We have to enforce strict policy to uphold quality and integrity of the forum.. so from here on onwards-

- Any off-topics will be deleted, so please make a back up of your post in notepad before posting if you are unsure.

- Three written warnings will be given to repeated offenders, after that we will have put you on moderation to ensure quality

- Please make this place positive learning experience, please treat this place as deep place in your home, just like you wouldn't want any nasty fight or argument in your house destroying peace, similarly we should all feel the same here. If you have issue with someone, take it via email or facebook and facebook can cater all that. Sorry we cannot, we have quality to maintain here.

1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

Have one for Nindak. There is a few on here who have earned that label.

The problem with that is - all the newbies had to go through nindak phase as they reach certain milestone in posts..lol..rank change is driven by posts - milestones.

Sangat ji, need your help with your feedback revamping rank titles as they seem bit outdated and cheesy when i think about it now...lol. Here is the current set up... any feedback on new title/ranks... or we can disable them. Let us know either way.