ironlion

moderator can you clarify: Who are the Sanatanists ?? Never heard of them before ? Are they knew ? Who, How and When did they start ? Thanks in advance - ironlion

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! No one gets goose bumps - thats just your imagination ... as I thought you don't live in UK and all you hear is bull-shit on the net so you become judgemental .... i suggest you get your head out of your darkness no one is threatened or insecure ... again your imagination ... but no Sikh will allow Sikhi or Sikh History to be dragged into the gutter just because they have decided to live like shit. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Again to all those who are doing selfless service for Guru Jee Dhan Dhan Satguru Guru Granth Sahib Maharaaj and for Guru Khalsa Panth ... May Guru Jee Bless you with Chardi Kala ! Nanak Naam Chardi Kala Tere Bhane Sarbatt Da Bhalla Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! I think you are a bit weird as all you seem to be obseesed with attacking boss ... you should get out more ... maybe a bit less internet or something .... where are you based I don't think UK as all you have done is cuss boss on the hearsay of uk nangs ... oh sorry u must be a chumpcha of them .... of the new world order of the sanatan sikhs ?? Talking about tradition/maryada - they have even given themselves a new name, where in history has this come from ... i have read nothing with the word sanatan sikhs .... only recently this bent cult .... worshipping the words of admin cut nindar ... limpy ... strange in the head .... rss lover (he goes and has been to their camps - ask him).... whats wrong with you people you have read all these books and gone a bit loopy or something .... why you accepting everything he says as the truth or the way ? you just all sheep acting as lions Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! May Guru Jee keep blessing the Singh and Singhnian who do selfless service the Udham Appralla to do more Selfless Service Jo Gaj Ke Bolavaa So Nihal Ho Jave Sat Sri Akaaaaaaalll !! Its hard enough in this day and age to stay active in sewa with all the Kaljug around and I think you guys are proving that point Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! What are you talking about here .... are you feeling ok ? Haven't been on the good old sukha have ya ? N E Ways Beast Boy you said : "He mentioned this during his talk at King's, and explained it quite well thank you very much." What was his justification to go to his local supermarket (the warrior he is) and hunt down that piece of chicken from the shelves and then do chatka ... oh sorry can you do chatka to something that is already dead ? BTW I have pasted some links to droool over .... yummy yummy : http://www.meetyourmeat.com/

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Sounds/Reads like you have read too much Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Thankyou for obliging ... as I said carry on slandering .... hey that sounds like a comedy .... so you guys carry on making us laugh and washing sins of those you are slandering Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Shaka Khan Nyorai ... ustad ji - are you talking about the same person who goes to his local supermarket to get his meat ? Surely you are not saying that this is rehat ... please do not lie all the time

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Nice to see that mods have not taken off posts of personal attacks ... Carry on slandering shaka khan nyorai and sikher becuz Guru Jee says: MODERATOR NOTE: The comments have in fact been removed. Contrary to what is often said about the team on this site, we are balanced in our make up and apply our rules appropriately, however are not online 24-7, most of us work full time or are studying. Can all posters, please ensure that personality attacks are avoided in making their points. If your have an issue with an organisation, please outline what that is, however referencing people's names is no different to what we saw happen last year with the AKJ 101 discussion when names and addresses of the Sanatanists were posted on line when arguments began to disintigrate into slagging matches. If this is the manner in Sikhs which to discuss, Sanatan, Tat-Khalsa, AKJ, Taksal, SGPC, East African, Indian, British, American or Martian, please continue, for frankly it will only highlight the limited 'mat' of you and the futility of your arguments. As moderators have mentioned before many times, please allow the quality and strength of your posts carry the weight of your arguments. Moderator Akal Sharan made a post in this respect earlier in the year about who this forum belongs to (YOU!!!) and who determines its quality (YOU!!!), if YOU wish abuse the freedom we provide on this forum for open dialogue then that is ultimately YOUR problem. Thanking you all. http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1355 This Shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 339 gourree || Gauree: ni(n)dho ni(n)dho mo ko log ni(n)dho || Slander me, slander me - go ahead, people, and slander me. ni(n)dhaa jan ko kharee piaaree || Slander is pleasing to the Lord's humble servant. ni(n)dhaa baap ni(n)dhaa mehathaaree ||1|| rehaao || Slander is my father, slander is my mother. ||1||Pause|| ni(n)dhaa hoe th baiku(n)t(h) jaaeeai || If I am slandered, I go to heaven; naam padhaarathh manehi basaaeeai || the wealth of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, abides within my mind. ridhai sudhh jo ni(n)dhaa hoe || If my heart is pure, and I am slandered, hamarae kaparae ni(n)dhak dhhoe ||1|| then the slanderer washes my clothes. ||1|| ni(n)dhaa karai s hamaraa meeth || One who slanders me is my friend; ni(n)dhak maahi hamaaraa cheeth || the slanderer is in my thoughts. ni(n)dhak so jo ni(n)dhaa horai || The slanderer is the one who prevents me from being slandered. hamaraa jeevan ni(n)dhak lorai ||2|| The slanderer wishes me long life. ||2|| ni(n)dhaa hamaree praem piaar || I have love and affection for the slanderer. ni(n)dhaa hamaraa karai oudhhaar || Slander is my salvation. jan kabeer ko ni(n)dhaa saar || Slander is the best thing for servant Kabeer. ni(n)dhak ddoobaa ham outharae paar ||3||20||71|| The slanderer is drowned, while I am carried across. ||3||20||71|| Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Every Sikh should know what it is and you can only become true Sikh if you follow teachings of Gurus but not Hindus. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said: "Jab Lag Khalsa Rahe Niara, Tab Lag Tej Dioon Mein Sara Jab Eh Gaye Bipran Ki Reet, Mein Na Karoon In Ki Parteet" This means as long as the Khalsa follow only one path of the Gurus and follow the teaching of Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Ji will always be with the Khalsa. But if the Khalsa starts following Bipran Ki Reet then Guru Ji will not help the Khalsa because a Sikh is not allowed to follow Bipars (Brahmans). Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

sikhtoons.com

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Check out this fauja singh doing ad for peta : http://www.petaindia.com/f-faujasingh.html and you can also download the poster: http://www.petaindia.com/images/faujasingh300.pdf Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Cyber Sangat Jee, Please find atached nice picture of Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa teaching Paat (Santhia) courtesy of www.gurmatveechar.com Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

[align=center:8c3a6d690f]Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ![/align:8c3a6d690f] Cyber Sangat Jee, A really good book that I recently bought is 'The Gallant Defender' by A.R. Darshi. The book is about Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale. The author is a retired Hindu Judicial Magistrate (Ex PCS Officer), Sub Divisional Magistrate and Joint Secretary to Government of Punjab. Mr Darshi has written the book to “recall and commemorate the outstanding contribution made by Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwalé who had raised the spirit of the Khalsa .... in defence of the faith and the philosophy of the Khalsa, so fondly created and nourished by Guru Gobind Singh." Highly recommended book. [align=center:8c3a6d690f][scroll:8c3a6d690f]Bhindrawala Sant-Sipahi - Jinni Sutti Koum Jagai ![/scroll:8c3a6d690f][/align:8c3a6d690f] [align=center:8c3a6d690f]Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindrawala the Saint - Soldier Who awakened the sleeping Sikh Nation ![/align:8c3a6d690f] [align=center:8c3a6d690f]Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ![/align:8c3a6d690f]

VAheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! http://www.sikhtoons.com

Vaheguru Jee Ka KHalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Thanks for answering the question. So we are agreed that this is hindu mat and against Gurmat. The point of this discussion was that if we any group (applies to any sampridya) is or individuals are promoting ideals that are against Gurmat then we should all say that it is wrong. The point is about hyprocisy and also to make each other aware when any group is going against gurmat. I agree with N30: "I think instead of working towards difference's we should work towards simialarities and unity between sampardha's!!! " but also to add we should be aware when any group or organisation takes actions under the guise that it is Sikhi, when in fact it is against Sikhi. Bhul Chuk Maaf Vaheguru Jee Ka KHalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! beast please can you answer on this specific point as I have read that post and mr lalashvari wrote: When Guru Jee blesses you with Khanda Batte da Amrit you become The Khalsa. Army of God. When Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Maharaaj Jee asked for a head in Vaisakhi 1699, he did not ask for a caste, colour or creed or even male or female. Guru Jee asked for a head, and with Vaheguru's Hukam, 5 Piarey stood and gave their heads. The backgrounds/caste were different with Guru Jee's blessing they became One, the brotherhood of Khalsa. Guru Jee didn't give Amrit seprately and they drank from the same Amrit da Batta (iron bowl). Also the post by lalashavr when it says that "kirpan da amrit is not for women alone but is more suited for women" is totally against Gurmat. Guru Jee blessed ALL sikhs with Khanda Batta da Amrit. beast again I ask you the question : Do you agree that caste in hindu mat ? So would you agree that when Budha Dal are seperating people along the lines of caste that it is hindu mat and against Gurmat ? Please answer to this specific question. Do not take offence but do not diverse from topic as I got better things to do. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! OK beast a specific example. When modern Budha Dal do Amrit Sanchar they sepreate all the so called different castes. Caste is hindu mat and totally against Sikh beliefs. Please answer on this specific example. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

VAheguru Jee Ka Halsa, Vahgeuru Jee Kee Fateh ! You don't have to have all these attributes/descriptions or show all these attributes. There are plenty of participants on these forum for example that see themselves as part of the hindu indian nation and then go round telling everyone what Sikhi is as they know it all because they have read a lot of literature. Be careful of people giving quotes from history etc... as a quotation can easily be mis-interpretated. Also historical texts are alright for reference (they are not 100% right) but they are the authors opinion or writing and most importantly they are NOT your Guru, which is Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. There are also people on these forums that will not say something is wrong even if it is blatantly wrong. For example some people don't say caste is wrong, especially those who split people up when giving Amrit. This is TOTALLY wrong and MANMAT. When we all drink from the same Amrit Batta, Amrit makes us into the Khalsa Brotherhood, smashing all differences of colour, caste and creed. Guru Jee gave the same Amrit and Rehat to both Singhs and Singhnian. Be careful of those type of people who try to change these fundamental beliefs. Also be careful of those type of people that believe that they are above The Khalsa and set up a false hierachy. I do not need to name any organisation/person, they know who they are and if you have believe that they are part of the hindu indian nation, and believe in caste etc... then please reply so that guv knows who you are. VAheguru Jee Ka Halsa, Vahgeuru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! The 'malesh' Khalsa are the false ones that promote drug abuse, take cannabis and get high, promote hindu mat such as caste (make so called different castes take Amrit seperate), worship hindu Gods, and see themselves as part of the hindu indian nation. Simple answer, If you know anyone who fits the descritption above, they are not really Sikhs, they may even look like Sikhs but inside they are just dirt ready to backstab The Khalsa Panth. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! I think you have got your wires crossed, Why would I prove you wrong on the points about the SGPC when I agreed with this points about SGPC on previous posts? (as above qute shows) That is not being political that is just straight talking. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Beastie Boy you are contradicting yourself. Also what USE have THEY got for 'bhang' (cannabis) ?? True if you are in war and you need a pain killer then in that aspect it is acceptable as any other pain killer. But I am sure when they are chopping off the sheeps heads, the sheeps are not that fierce fighters ?? and yet you have said about me: How can you be confident. You don't even know me. Yep .. many times Getting a bit personal here ? Hey I thought that the moderator was meant to be impartial ? Admin you know so much about me. Should i bother replying... The notion about drug abuse in Punjab and decline in Sikhi was seen at first hand when I visited (been couple of times). The decline was not only evident by viewing but also talking to relatives/friends about their experiences and changes of people there. For example they told me about how when there wasn't one or just about be one barber shop, there was now three on the same street, and I saw this in his local town. Also a constant theme was the increase in drug abuse of the youth and elders. Also the different methods and things they would use to get high. The point of this posting is that if any group - whoever they are if they are openly promoting drug abuse then they are besharam, and are not really Sikhs. They are simply degrading Sikhi. And for you beastie I am not talking about [highlight=yellow:509976473a]True Nihangs[/highlight:509976473a]. Because True Nihangs are part of The Khalsa. The Khalsa does not do drug abuse, does fight against injustice and does not worship hindu gods, Believes in 10 Guru , and believes that the Jot of the 10 Guru is in Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaaj etc... [highlight=yellow:509976473a]The 'nangs' or malesh Khalsa are the false ones that promote drug abuse, take cannabis and get high, promote hindu mat such as caste (make so called different castes take Amrit seperate), worship hindu Gods, and see themselves as part of the hindu indian nation.[/highlight:509976473a] Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! Beast, if you like to call me a wolf in sheep clothing, I am not too bothered. Why would anyone get upset with the question posed ? It is a very valid Sikhi related question. If it is touching a nerve then that is up to you to find out why? The Truth is a hard pill to swallow. Individuals/groups can go round promoting certain beliefs i.e. it is OK to take intoxications, on websites, forums etc... justifying whichever way they like but the reality of the situation is that drug abuse is rampant in Punjab and across the world. It is a scurge on society, and to promote it in any shape or form is not only against Gurmat but you are basically influencing people towards a living hell. THINK about what you are ultimately promoting, and whether you can live with yourselves. I am sure some people out their have suffered, with family members taking drugs. Everyone is happy to do and say what they please until it effects them. I am not asking anyone to start a political party. The point is about Internal and External threats to Sikhi. Those who are aligned with the RSS way of thought i.e. like the article then they are a threat. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh !

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh ! The answer to this question would be: Why Not ? - It is a very valid Sikhi related question. Also I think you missed my last post where I have opened it up to anyone to answer : "1. Can a group or person promoting intoxications help in any way to stop a drug problem that is epidemic in Punjab ? " About SGPC - you are totally right about questioning their motives aswell. They take all that Donations of the Golak ? But where does it go ? They ASWELL need to be asked this question. Again these are valid points and agree that Badal is ANOTHER sell out. But because another group is doing wrong doesn't mean we cannot discuss what others are doing. Again this is open point, so that Admin does not get offended or think I am being petty ... It is one thing a non-religious person taking intoxications but another thing when somebody/group taking intoxications in the name of Sikhi. They are degrading Sikhi. Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, VAheguru Jee Kee Fateh !