sikh princess

He is the Giver of peace to the breath of life, the Giver of life to the soul; how can you forget Him, you ignorant person? You taste the weak, insipid wine, and you have gone insane. You have uselessly wasted this precious human life. ||1|| O man, such is the foolishness you practice. Guru Arjan Devji, Guru Granth Sahib page 1001 In my heart I cherish the Glories of the Lord, the Lord of the Universe. ||1||Pause|| Even if wine is made from the water of the Ganges, O Saints, do not drink it. This wine, and any other polluted water which mixes with the Ganges, is not separate from it. ||1|| Bhagat Ravidass Ji Guru Granth Sahib page 1293 Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. Bhagat Kabirji Guru Granth Sahib page 1377

Good post Neoji. Akalbir don't let the personal views of anyone let you be diverted from the path of taking Amrit. Just approach the Guru Granth Sahib with humility and the Guru will guide you away from the narrow world of sampardhaya, gurudevs and 'lineages' to the gurmat gaddi rah. When you have the Guru as your guide what need have you of gurudevs or this dal or that dal?

a lalleshvari response..lol Good luck debating with ppl with time on their hands to search out your references and I was under the impression you wanted to debate

So Bhai Vir Singh just says.. the sarbloh granth is not old enough?. How about expanding on his reasons? A few quotes maybe? It is usual for quotes from the relevant portion of the text referred to. Thanks, that's much appreciated. If you can give the quotes, i will check them up in a few days and post my comments I hope you will bear with this debate because some of the debates I've had with sanatan sikhs have had to be curtailed due to lack of positive response to my requests for proper references.

Kamalroop Singh. I asked you on the sikh heritage thread for references. Saying Bhai Vir Singh said..blah blah blah doesn't mean much unless you state in which book/text he makes that claim. I suppose you know the reason for references in a PhD thesis? Or are you going to expect your supervisors to read all of Bhai Vir Singh's book to see verify what Bhai Vir Singh's view is on Sarbloh Granth? Your view on the Patiala states makes no sense? Who were the scholars that Patiala state employed to do the brit's dirty work? Or are you expecting us to search out each and every scholar employed by Patiala state. I would have thought your Nabha state would have been more your target as Nabha State was the state that employed Bhai Kahan Singh for most of his life. Moreover just refering to a work of M A McAuliffe by just to title to prove a point is not sufficient. How about a few quotes as well as their general context?

NO I think you missed the point. This is funny, Narsingha's whole website is based on that fact that 'sanatan' sikhi goes back to the time of creation and lalleshvari has just admitted that there is no such thing as 'sanatan' sikhi before the 19th century!

I just don't understand Narsingha problem with a CD that's been brought out so that the youth can know something about the Shaheed's of 1984. Maybe he doesn't want the next generation of sikhs to know about Santa Singh's betrayal. Beast nice to see you're awake. Try reading the whole tread rather than jumping in when you think you have found a 'clever' answer to someone's post!

Narsingha, you're the one who brought up the subject of 1984? So are you saying you're part of the lunatic fringe?

Rupz I think you are partially right. My view on this is. Muslim women have always been used as a means to gain conversion of non-muslim men to Islam. So the issue in this case isn't adultery. It is to counter the Islamic use of Muslim women to seduce non-Muslims to Islam. So being sexually involved with Muslim women would mean conversion to Islam. In an Islamic state governed by sharia law it is impossible for a non-Muslim man to marry a Muslim woman without him having to convert. During Mughal times especially under Akbar these rules were not always rigidly enforced. Only during Aurangzeb's rule did he enforce these rules rigidly. There are instances of Aurangzeb giving orders to his governors that they should find out households were a Muslim woman had married a non-Muslim man and either force the husband to convert to Islam or take the wife away from her husband and give suitable punishment to the husband. So during the time of Guru Gobind Singh a non-Muslim man taking a Muslim woman would be making a conscious decision that could only lead to conversion to Islam. During the times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh the British writers noticed that most of the prostitutes were Muslim women. This may have also been the case during Mughal times. In a time when most women lived secluded lives within the extended family it is well nigh impossible for adultery to occur. So the type of adultery which may have been envisaged by the sakhi writer was one of a husband or a non married man visiting a prostitute who would almost certainly have been a Muslim.

Narsingha Personal grudge match? You might be used to ppl accepting everything you write without checking your references but ppl I know like to check where you get your 'facts' I look forward to seeing your article. I hope it's got more references than the main website!

I think you have all misunderstood Harmless veerji/penji Bhai Gurdas tells us that as Sikhs there is greater merit in us explaining a shabad of Gurbani to another Sikh than there is in us building seven temples of Gold dedicated to God. I take this to mean that it is incumbant on us to try and lead a Gursikh life ourselves as well as helping others to lead to lead a life according to Gurbani. 'Aap Japai avra Naam Japaveh' Gurbani tells us to contemplate on Waheguru ourselves as well as help others to do the same. If you do not consider yourself a sufficent Sikh that you cannot encourage and help a fellow Sikh live the Gursikh way then it is best to keep quiet otherwise you are just misleading that person. I did not reply to Jahan's post as I do not consider myself as sufficently a Gursikh that I can counsel him into Sikhi. Telling someone who is looking for guidence to 'set your own path or join another religion' is not the way a Sikh should be giving advice to a fellow Sikh. I know Jahan Veer is an intelligent guy and he won't be misled by what you wrote. But what of all the young kids that might be similarly confused as Jahan? If they approached their parents intent on falloiwng your advice what would the parents feel when the kids tell them they were advised to do this by a forum called 'Sikh Awareness'! Canadian Jatti i found you remark about your life not being centered around Guru Granth Sahib yet your focus is of God confusing. The Guru Granth Sahib is a way to approach Waheguru.

I think the implication of Fateh singh's statement was that Nihang singhs were taking part in the kuka movement. I don't think this is about maryada, it is whether any or all the kukas that were blown up by canons were nihangs. This is very doubtful because there was even well before that time a great deal of animosity between nihangs and kukas

This is interesting. Although there is a great made of the roti-beti relationship between Sikhs and Hindus as well as the oft repeated statement that some Hindu families made their first born son a Sikh out of respect for Sikhism, the truth is quite different. Roti-Beti relationship between Sikhs and Hindus never existed amongst the majority of Sikhs. The common Sikh Jats never married into Hindu Jat families. The only ones that occurred between Sikh Jats and Hindu Jats were between royal families. If a match was found between a Sikh Jat male or female with a Jat Hindu then the Jat Sikhs always insisted on the Hindu Jat family converting to Sikhism. There are many instances of this in Panjab during the british period. Raising the first born son of a Hindu family into a Sikh was due to a number of factors. If a Hindu woman was unable to have a child or more importantly a son, then it was common for such women to go and pray at important Sikh gurdwaras and to make a vow ( sukh ) that if a son was born then they would raise him as a Sikh. During the british period in Sikh majority areas only Sikh Jats were enlisted into the army. If a Hindu Jats wished to join the army then they would have to take the Pahul at the recruitment office. This was also the case with Lobana and Mazhibi and Ramdasia Sikhs. During the 1920s there was a Hindu-Muslim riot in Multan and although the Hindu population was quite large in the city, the Hindus took a bad beating from the Muslims. A few weeks after there was a Sikh-Muslim riot in central Panjab in which the Sikhs worsted the Muslims. A Hindu politician Madan Mohan malvaiya gave a call to the Hindus to raise their eldest son as a Sikhs so that that Sikh could protect the rest of the family from possible Muslim attacks. This call was largely ignored by the Hindus.

My ancestors weren't Hindus or Muslims. They were Jats whose religion was jathera or ancestor worship. As far as I know none ever worshipped Hindu Gods or prayed in Mandirs. Their religious places were 'marhis' or memorials to an illustrious ancestor from whom the whole got was descended.

If you do a search for Narsingh's previous posts you'll see that he's been giving website excuse for a year now.