MysticMonist

Oh I may have out this in the wrong place, i thought it was SGGS topics. Sorry!

Hello, I'm back after being away for a while. I absolutely love this quote "So many Siddhas and Buddhas, so many Yogic masters. So many Goddesses of various kinds. So many demi-gods and demons, so many silent sages. So many oceans of jewels. So many ways of life, so many languages. So many dynasties of rulers. So many intuitive people, so many selfless servants. O Nanak, His limit has no limit!" It was really helpful to think of the teachings of the religions as but one gem in an ocean of jewels. Anyone have any suggestions of an audio version online of the SGGS in English? Thanks!

Hello! It's been a long while since I've been on here. I hope everyone is well. Last time I was on here I was a practing bahai, which lasted about six months. After leaving the bahais, I've studied kababalah and gnosticism. I have always really struggled with the labels of religion and my religious identity. My family is Christian. I discovered the teachings of hermeticism, which is a 3rd century or so philosphy from Alexandria, which was a very diverse spirtual center at the time. It tells the myth of Hermes Trismegistus (the thrice great Hermes) who was a prophet, perhaps the same as Enoch in the Bible (Idris in the Quran) or Toth of the Egyptians. This man was the first to be given wisdom of the hidden things of God and their teachings have been passed on since then. I say it's a myth because I don't believe this literally. But I do believe throughout time mankind has had simmilar mystical insights. Hereclitus, a Greek philospher who wrote in 300 BCE, of a logos or Word that eternally existed and was common (existing everywhere) but of which most are ignorant. I think this Word is the same entity discussed in John of the Christians or the Spirit of Revelation of the Bahais and is realted to the Angel who gave Mohammed the Quran. This sounds new agey, and perhaps it is, but it is nice to find the idea has very old roots. What's the Sikh thoughts on this? What is the origin of the Sikh revelation?

Hello! I really enjoyed our conversations here ealier. So much so it caused a crisis of faith. Bahais believe in the unity of religions and that God has spoken thru messengers. Yet they don't count the Sikh Gurus as one of them. I think that you can ever put God is a box. His revelation appears where and when He wants it to. He is more generous than we can comprehend. So I'm not primarily identifying as Baha'i anymore. I realised i have a deep desire to not reject the faith of anyone and not to deny God's presence in many places it can be found. I guess I'll become a Unitarian Universalist or something.

On Sunday I'm visiting a Gurudwara! I'm very excited. I let them know I was coming. Is there anything I need to know beyond common courtesy (dress nicely with dress shirt and tie, turn off my phone and don't disrupt during the service, say thank you, etc)?

Literally, what is the Name or Names of the Lord? I'm very interested in the mysticism of the names of God. Islam has 99 names, Zorastorianism has a simmilar list. Kabbalah also deals in depth with Divine Names. I have started a practice of chanting divine names during all of my prayers. Any resources of the Divine Name in Sikhism? Btw... My morning and evening prayers these days is a Hebrew prayer followed by reading an Ang of the SGGS followed by chantinng divine names in Arabic. Thanks.

ਸੰਤਾ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਰਹੈ ਜਪਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Santhaa Sangath Mil Rehai Jap Raam Naam Sukh Paae ||1|| Rehaao || Remain united with the Society of the Saints; chant the Name of the Lord, and find peace. Ang 31

Thanks! I'm very interested in the mystical and esoteric intrepration of scripture. I'll try to share some of that stuff as I come across it.

This is wonderful! Thank you for this wisdom. I'm might not agree 100% either my Baha'i community or my Christain family church but it's nice to feel I can embrace the essential truths in these faiths. I think the SGGS and Sikh teachings more fully enable this.

I can see the wisdom in maintaining a cautious mystery about the percise nature of the Guru. The teachings in Baha'i are purposefully ambiguous here too. To me, it makes the most sense, to think of Divine Revelation as an emanation which in Platonism is derived from God but is not God Himself, like the rays from the Sun. This is the Logos or the Word in the Christain gospel. It is also the Torah which is seen as preexisting the world by some Jews. It is the Message of the Quran and it is the Spirit that speaks thru the Baha'i messengers and the Sikh Gurus. Knowing the Guru/Torah/Word is only way to truly know God, because it is by this method God reveals Himself.

In the Christain Gospel, Matthew 27:51-53 "At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people." There is a Baha'i intrepration that the tearing of the curtain to the Holy of Holies and the busting open of the tombs is symbolic of Jesus' teachings that reveal the essential, holy truth of Judaism. Jesus, for example, stresses compassion over legalism and inclusion over purity. I think that Baha'is clearly base the doctrine of progressive revelation on Sikh teachings and not solely on the Quran. Bab and Baha'u'llah being persian Sufis would have no doubt been aware of Sikh teachings or picked them up Sufis drawing from the Sikhs. So if you are cynical you could say Bahais incorporated Sikh teaching in their new faith. If you are less cynical, perhaps Sikhs and Bahais both understand the same truth.

I've replaced my obligatory reading of Baha'i texts with the SGGS. I definitely agree.

This deserves it's own thread. I hope you will discuss this further.

I hope we can discuss (rather than necessarily debate) in greater detail the theology of the nature of Sikh Gurus and the parallels with Baha'i Divine Manifestations. It's come up several times already in my posts. I started to try to write an essay about the nature of Divine Messengers but it quickly became very wordy and went in circles. It's difficult to put into percise words such a profound topic. "The Palace of the Lord God is so beautiful. Within it, there are gems, rubies, pearls and flawless diamonds. A fortress of gold surrounds this Source of Nectar. How can I climb up to the Fortress without a ladder? By meditating on the Lord, through the Guru, I am blessed and exalted. The Guru is the Ladder, the Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Raft to take me to the Lord's Name. The Guru is the Boat to carry me across the world-ocean; the Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Holy River. If it pleases Him, I bathe in the Pool of Truth, and become radiant and pure." (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag, pg. 17) This Sikh quote seems very simmilar to Baha'i teachings. Baha'i teachings explain that there are throughout time Divine (from God) Manifestions (of Divine Revelation) that act as perfect mirrors to the Divine Light. On a personal level understanding that God has sent His messengers to all many people in every era thru different faiths was a key that unlocked the essential truth of the diverse faiths. I find that the numerous scripturers contain the Voice of God and it's by their study and thru their teachings that I encounter God in more profound way than I could alone. I believe that the Sikh scripture, the Sri Guru Granath Sahib, is clearly the product of Divine Revelation. Though I know I'll get no disagreement of that statement here, I'll explain how I know this to be true. I think in discerning truth of revelation it needs to pass two tests: 1. There needs to be an experience of Divine Illumination in receiving the words. For me, I experienced that with the first page of the text. 2. The fruits of the revelation are, for the most part, love of God and love of neighbor rather than the perversion of these loves. Sikhs are well known for their generosity and mild manner and have a long history of benefiting mankind. I feel I am barely scratching the surface with this discussion, so I'd welcome your thoughts and wisdom. God is most glorious! -MM

I'm an occupational therapist. I work in a nursing home with the elderly. I also have two boys ages 3 and 6, a job in itself.

Thank you all for the warm welcome and continuing to share your wisdom. I am continuing my studies of the Sikh faith but there is alot to take in and I want to receive it prayerfully and with the Guru's guidance not merely intellectually. I've started reading an ang of the Sri Guru Granath Sahib during my morning and evening prayers. I'll be praying for all of you. I'm going to try to eat less meat, though I know not all Sikhs are vegetarian. I already don't drink or use intoxicants. Anyother advice in seeking the guidance of the Guru? I need to visit a gurudwara when I get the chance. I don't anticipate converting to a Sikh, I've done enough conversions!! But I do believe the Sikh faith contains essential truths and is a good path to emulate. Thank you again for your welcome and friendship!

I read that Sikhs do not believe in prophets. The role of the Guru is obviously very important to you. I think that this is a much deeper topic and the role of Divine Messengers is a key part of my personal faith and I'd love to dig deeper on another thread perhaps. It's a very profound subject. I appreciate your continued insistence on not wanting to be offensive. I should state the same. I have deep respect for the Sikh faith and I'm on the forum because I have fallen in love with the Guru Granath. Anything I might say thats offensive is due to my ignorance.

That's a wonderful passage. It reminds of the Zen parable of the finger (teaching) pointing to the moon (enlightenment/God) which maybe what you are referencing. It also reminds me of one of my favorite passages from the Hebrew prophet Amos "“I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them.Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them.23 Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps.24 But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!" Amos 5:21-24

This is a good question. I (and Plato) don't believe in an independent existence to evil. One way of thinking about it is that evil is the NO to God's YES. It's like darkness to light, it's nothing in and of itself. Plato thinks we choose evil because we mistake the sensory pleasures of the world for our ultimate good and happiness which can only be truly found in virtue (God). I like the Sikh teaching of the five theives from what I understand of it. It's a bit condescending to think people make poor choices because they are simply ignorant. Evil or corrupt desires I believe really do steal away our intentions and love that should be focused on God instead. This http://www.sikhanswers.com/god-and-his-universe/what-is-the-sikh-view-on-satan-or-the-devil/ makes alot of sense. Bahais also don't believe in Satan per say but that he is a metaphor for the "insistent self".

Its a philosophy. Plato is a Greek philosopher who taught that physical world is but a shadow of an ideal, higher realm. He believes in one Absolute source of truth and beauty, which he calls God. Our happiness lies in practicing virtue. I'm also a big fan of Plotinus and the neoplatonists. They heavily influenced Christanity, Islam and Kabbalah. I don't know if any of you are into western philosophy at all. Plato is pretty much the father of philosophy in the west.

Unfortunately I only speak English. I'm slowly learning Hebrew. I won't be offended at all. My family is Christain. I am interested in all religions. I do belong to a local and an online Baha'i community, but I'm more of a Platonist than anything else.

This is a more beautiful response than before, thank you! "souls are like rays emanating from the Sun at the early hours of the day, and when night approaches, they merge back into the Sun, thus becoming one with the Sun." I am familiar with the analogy of the Sun and it's rays. It's one of my favorite descriptions of God. I'm currently reading Plotinus' Enneads. Emanations also play a key role in Kabbalah which I continue to study as my understanding allows. I agree that in a sense that our souls are an emanation of the Divine. Kabbalah talks about the Yud, the divine spark within us that descends from God and it is the purpose of life to return to our Divine Source. I love the idea that our very existence (and the whole world) flows moment by moment from Divine Will. The Kabbalists say that the very fact we exist is proof that we still have a purpose, otherwise God would take us out of life in an instant. So that's why I am a "monist", I believe in one Source of all reality, truth and goodness. Since I mentioned Kabbalah, which is frequently misunderstood, I think the real "magic" of Kabbalah is the commandments of loving God and loving neighbor. Essentially this is core of all religions. I loved the rest of the post too. I can get too wordy so I'll just simply say it was well put and we'll explained. Thank you. As for whether this returning to God is a reintergration of our being with Divine Being like drops to the ocean or whether it is a returning home of a beloved servant, not equal to my Master, or both is beyond my ability to know. I'll have to take your word for it and more importantly put my faith in God that He will guide me arightly. As your scripture says "Hearing of His Greatness, everyone calls Him Great, But just how Great His Greatness is-this is known only to those who have seen Him. His Value cannot be estimated; He cannot be described. Those who describe You, Lord, remain immersed and absorbed in You." Ang 9. I posted this statement on the Sihk philosophy forum as well, but I wanted to share it with you as studying the Guru Granath has had a big effect one me: By the way, traditionally Bahais don't recognize Guru Nanak as a "divine Manifestation" for several reasons. But I've become persuaded that this narrow view is mistaken. No one has a monopoly on God. Blessings to you, MM

Thanks! That does help clarify things.

Thank you for your lovely response! You put it very well. Indeed, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One. You mention one of the things I've been trying to discern. So what is the True Nature of our souls? At highest mystical levels, the many scripturers talk about union before God. Bahai's talk about being enraptured by God with no thoughts of anything but Him. Is our "pure soul" God itself and we are just unaware of it? Or is our purity found in submitting to God as a creature fundamentally separate from the Godhead? Does this really matter or is it functionally the same? I was struggling with this question in terms of Jesus and Christain beliefs about the incarnation. If we are all divine then Jesus' claim is no problem. Otherwise, we need to say that Jesus is not God. At best, he is only speaking as if he is God, with the Voice of God. Yet in that case he never intended to claim his own divinity. How would you respond? Who are you and who was/is Jesus? P.S. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sach_Khand I think this pretty much answered my question. It is the creature become unified with the Divine not realizing ones inner divine nature, right?

I found this article http://www.realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248368191&ucat=7 I loved this "There are no religions beyond this world. Sikhism states that just because you belong to a religion does not mean anything. God is not limited to just one religion. Belonging to one religion will not help you attain salvation, you have to purify yourself by becoming a true moral person, help others, meditate on God, and love Him to be One with Him." I really love the Sikh scripture as well.