GanM

This is my last post here. I know you're upset.

Neo, do you believe in karma? May I suggest that you see your own powers in context. Here's another site you may find interesting: http://punjabi.net/ GushK has rather heavily paraphrased. The full text of what I wrote is as follows: "Guru Gobind Singh was an insurgent/guerrilla fighter. He used information and propaganda extremely adeptly (much as Sikhs and other groups continue to do to this day). The quote you cited is an example of his skill at information warfare, and his amazing ability to inspire loyalty, trust and bravery in the face of an overwhelming threat. He was from a different, much more violent and intense, time and age. Let's keep his works in the museums/places where they can be easily referred to for the purposes of historical research. They do NOT apply to today's world. We've moved on from being lions, tigers, goats, horses, donkeys, etc." I apologise if I hurt your sentiments, but for the sake of avoiding misunderstanding let me make it clear that I have no beef with the Sikhs (I'm unmoved by the fact that I was barred from becoming a Sikh by the Sikhs themselves) or with Guru Gobind Singh. However, I maintain that bearing arms (even though he commanded it for his followers in his own violent times) has no place in our pacified and regulated societies today. I make no apologies for that, and I have backed it up with some solid reasons. If you hold Guru Gobind Singh in reverence be assured that I respect your choice and do not ask you to change that. I am only asking you to change your interpretation of his religion, so that you do not have a violent or threatening outlook on life. My own perspective is that Guru Gobind Singh has passed on, and we should not take offense on his behalf for expressing our opinions (which he probably would have allowed us to have if he was still around).

GushK, what are you talking about? Did'nt you understand my post?

You just said that Kaal pushes everyone around. When it pushes you around, you will have to change your ways or else just fade away into extinction. I will be unmoved.

Nyorai this is not my paradise. I cannot breathe clean air here (you know what I mean). If I thought it would preserve or defend freedom to inculcate 17th century warrior ways to some impressionable kids (not a condemnation - I'm a kid myself although not impressionable) I would sign on the dotted line!! But it's not like that, as we both know. It's a violent oppressive cult for which the prefix "neo" and and the word "tools" seem required in any balanced description of its followers. The blueshirts are not free - they are under the command of warlords (e.g. NNS). I have more freedom than they have, without the weapons. I can say whatever I want. I share your concerns about the actions of the pirates who seem to be in charge of the world in the 21st century. However, I believe that the way to change things is through love. No matter how powerful their armies may be, they are utterly useless if the people don't support the idea of having a particular war (say, the war in Iraq). No democratic government would risk going to war, without the population in support. Ultimately, it opens up the fear of them being dethroned, and that's the fear we have to use against them. Consider the effect of demoralising an army in any particular circumstances. Imagine if, say, the West attacks Iran but the US and British soldiers refuse to bomb the shrine of Imam Ali! Utterly disastrous for the governments concerned, and it could be the turning point vis a vis who holds the balance of power!! But you won't achieve it with your cutlass. You will achieve it by informing and educating. I am immovable. However, with your baggage you are easily pushed around. What I mean is that through the media we are always being manipulated to support the next war, sponsored by the "business" (pirate) interests behind it. Iran can't afford to channel its own CNN, Reuters and BBC through the televisions of the rednecks who populate the UK and the US. That's why pirate raids for oil can still be undertaken even today, and that's why the EICo persists (with a new name), why slavery persists, etc. Informing and educating is the biggest challenge you have to face, because you do not control the media. That makes it an uphill struggle. YOU can be defined and therefore manipulated. Would'nt it be better to be formless like water? That way, you would be free to abandon the swords and axes when they are no longer useful (like now), instead of becoming something of a museum exhibit yourself. Lions these days are kept in cages. They lost the jungle. If you want to bring the jungle back (like I do) you can make a start by accepting help from friends and allies rather than trying to undermine them.

Robots in disguise.

And whack it for miracles.

According to your own doctrine, smoking is verboten and your weapons are the bees' knees (so to speak). Where's the wisdom in such a skewed philosophy? Why are you following it? When you call a piece of metal "Goddess", why? Are you being completely honest with yourself as to why you are carrying that thing? Why do you attach religious connotations to the most deliberately-harmful things in your possession? Is it because it enables you to silence your own conscience about the dreadful harm you KNOW it can do? Are your elaborate justifications simply a way to cheat your own conscience? You say you are not the Doer, but you are. You are the Doer who will hurt your victim with your weapon, and the courts will put you on trial as the Doer when you do so. Your victim's family will see you as the Doer too, and whatever consequences YOU or US have as a result of any violence you inflict will not affect the imaginary or otherwise entity that is not yourself that you blame for everything. I am pleased that you are not following in the footsteps of NNS. Nobody else should either. There's clearly something wrong (based on insecurity) when someone makes becoming a threat to others one of their goals in life. Is paradox for you food for thought or a way to find comfort when flummoxed by your own choices? Why do you say you "like" it? It does'nt make any sense when you say you like paradox.

I am not trying to get you to convert to anything. I want you to be a Sikh. I am only asking you to rationalise and moderate your interpretation of what it means to be a Sikh. Smoking is evil and your pesh kabz is good (so good that it's god)? Just think about it (don't let NNS do your thinking for you).

Lalleshvari/Nyorai I read your posts and I am convinced now more than ever that your armed-warrior-ism is pure evil. If only you could understand - your notions about Kal Yug could easily be a self-fulfilling prophecy when you accept them as true. You seem to have chosen to believe a series of medieval prophecies that say: these days are'nt like the good ol' days, and they're going from bad to worse. That's your choice to believe that. I'm asking you to change your choice. You really have no idea how redundant your ways with weapons are. There is no love without trust, and carrying weapons "just in case" in times of peace and where there is no particular threat against you is a symptom of a serious lack of trust (i.e. paranoia). You have crafted a whole religion around your paranoia. The ways of 17th century militant religionists are not 21st-century ways suitable for adoption in today's pacified world. This fact is obvious to people who don't identify themselves as feudal warriors. Guru Gobind Singh's ways and habits (i.e. being armed and ready for a ruckus) were meant for his guerrilla struggle in the contemporary Punjab. That struggle is over, much as you seem to want it to continue, with your romanticisation of the killers of those days. Your ideas are way out there and have nothing to do with how the non-Sikh world thinks, but they will win you friends here on this internet forum. Unfortunately your lack of trust in others reaps its own reward for you (i.e. you will not be trusted yourself) and your being tooled up does'nt exactly emanate good vibes for everyone else as you seem to think. That's why I'm asking you to disarm. For your good and everyone else's.

Apologies if I misunderstood. I can be slow at times. We can discuss these things again soon, maybe?

Mugermach, how can I force you to adopt my maryada? That does'nt make any sense. And I don't have any agenda apart from the one I declared. It's honest of you to mention it, because I would expect a warrior to anticipate an ATTACK whenever someone comes with a message to disarm (I've read Clausewitz). However, there is no incoming attack. Your distrust is what I want to address. I also want to open your eyes to the damage you are causing. It's for you. I've got no use for weapons.

Mugermach, on reflection I was being rude (in the way I expressed my point) and you're not. However, it's a different mindset altogether. That's what I'm saying. To arm yourself and to embed your weapons in your religious life to such an extent that you carry weapons outside every day is so far removed from how the ordinary non-Sikh people think. They simply could not understand such behaviour. Mainstream political interests are interested in the opinions (mostly irrational) of the greater number (the mob). They are the mob themselves, who express with one voice (Parliament) and weapons (modern armies). They are scared of difference. You protect yourself from them by self-preservation (in a complete form) rather than adaptation. Wearing jeans is'nt an adaptation, if you still carry weapons. The spiritual climate is changing, and there is a violent malevolence everywhere. The kind of malevolence you can't protect against with weapons, only with the power of the human heart. The weapons seem to be aggravating/causing trouble, and making it difficult for people to trust each other. I was thinking that changing the world to bring about world peace should begin at home. We should move on and defend ourselves with love, to protect against enemies that are now so clever that NONE of them are vulnerable to shastars. These days, even if you kill the weakest of them (e.g. a drunken racist yob) in self-defence, you can lose the fight in the end. It won't stop with imprisonment - the violence will escalate. Because the machinery is all in place for some serious conflict. I just want to take serious conflict out of the equation as an option. If we start with our immediate localities, making those safer by coercing the authorities to do a much better job would be a much better plan than preparing for the worst possible outcome (which I believe becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because we are in charge of reality although you might not think so and hence carry a shastar).

Let the words of our mouths And the meditation of our hearts Be acceptable in thy sight, O FarI

Nihal Kaur, I appreciate your comments. However, we are ALL responsible for the cycle of violence. The most likely people to bring about change in this ill society we live in are not people who have already been brainwashed into becoming terrorists/fanatics though. You lot are ideally placed to change things for the better. What do I have to do to make ordinary Sikhs give up violence? I'm getting really tired of letting the elders (who should know better) turn ordinary Sikh kids into tools. It should'nt be happening like this. In 2004, American, British and Canadian Sikh youth should be CHALLENGING the violent traditions of the past like carrying medieval knives and swords!! Not trying to continue them, in circumstances where there is NO threat to them whatsoever. It seems that shastardhari Sikhs live on a completely different planet to the rest of us. I just want them to catch up, and see the bigger picture so they can compete in the real world of the 21st century. For the sake of peace. Hari, I don't want to proselytise at all. It would be nice if you could reassure me that you are doing what you can, in the way you know best, to disarm the Sikhs. You are in a better position to do it. Don't be alarmed, I want to disarm EVERYONE, not just Sikhs.