vijaydeep Singh

Gurfateh

Das came to knwe about them more from a lecture of Baba Nidder Singh Ji.

Das is not in UK at present but needs more info about them.(for our fellow meber Bhai Beetale juice).

Gurfateh

so far it is Not.It is under the copy right of Budhadal.

Only if they permit,it can be made online.

To scan the pages about INR 10000 plus could be needed and large scanner.If Akal permits and Jathedar Baba Sant Singh Ji Agree,das can bring in scann versions with due permission of Jathedar Ji.But still some space and huge web space is needed to make it online.

It i termed as Sarbloh Guru Darbar.

Gurfateh

Vajra means ligheening or weapon of Indra.It was made by the bones of sage Dadhichi.

It also means that bones were stronger then Iron as Chakra of Vishnu could not do much harm.So both seems to be simlar.

Gurfateh

Best wishes for the Birthday of Father.In both calenders,Lunar and Soler.

Gurfateh

One more question.

Unlike the Akalis of present Day Akali Dals,whom Nihungs call more a Malechhas.While they show sense of belonging to Akali Kaur Singh Ji.

Das has another question.

Did these Akalis of northern Area had anything to do with institution set up over that Area By Baba Phula Singh Ji?

As Niuhngs took refuge to Nijam Area of Deccan from Britshers, did these Akalis also made thier base in Dogra Areas with the simalr reasons?

Das wants to know more and thanks in advance.

Gurfateh

Very nice story.

Gurfateh

Das has heard a legend that Baba Bulle Shah visited Guru as a Qawwal and Guru reconganised him.More info needed.

Gurfateh

Das was not happy with the epidsode of Gurudwara relteted to Baba Vadbhag Singh.Many same things are here in Gurudwaras related to Nihungs,Taksalis,Nirmalas,Udasis and Baba Virsa Singh Ji.

Had such guy had such base in India,they would have played havoc over here.

Indians are often clverer then some western guys as they live more difficult life so they are hardened.So such people who tend to attack others do not have much teeth in India.As a result,they tend to say that Indian Govenement of India is doing all non sense.

Gurfateh

From

link below

http://www.panthic.org/news/129/ARTICLE/2977/2006-12-20.html

'Coup de grâce' on Sikhism

Wednesday 20th of December 2006

Dr. Ripudaman Singh, Denmark

What Al Qaeda is to the Western world, RSS is to the Sikhs. Whereas Al Qaeda is determined towards the destruction of Imperial West, RSS has similar motives towards Sikhism. But how the West and some Sikhs have dealt with these important issues affecting them, also beckons a lot of concern. There has been a general tendency towards manipulation and generation of fear on the names of their adversaries by the people towards their own people with the sheer motive of personal gain. 'Petrify your people and then rule over them' has been a well tested strategy which the leaders of the most powerful nations have applied on their masses and succeeded commendably. No doubt, this strategy is also used by some Sikhs on fellow Sikhs. The only difference is that in the former case it is the political orientation of the people which is affected, but in the latter case it is the faith which comes under scrutiny by its followers. The result is confusion, chaos, and distress among the believers. Roll any argument in the garb of RSS and Hindutva and the Sikhs can easily digest it as truth; even arguments against Sikh scriptures, traditions, rehat and maryada.

Gurtej Singh lied on the TV while declaring that "Vaar Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki" is not part of Ardaas, and acknowledging the line of Kala Afghana that it is trash ('koor-kabaar').

A latest similar salvo has come from Gurtej Singh (an ex-IAS) in the form of a shabbily written article "Implications of the inglorious coup d'etat in Sikhi". Through a series of conspiracy theories he has tried to prove that a Sikh scripture, The Dasam Granth, is a creation of dexterous Brahmins, solely concocted to bring Sikhism under the garb of Hinduism. Distressed by the Jathedars of Takhats and Sikh leadership, he even criticizes them of being on payrolls of the RSS. He claims that this collusion dates back to year 2000, which, according him is also the year when The Dasam Granth was 'forced' into Sikhism under some well conceived conspiracy. Widening his conspiracy theory he even cries foul at the decision of the press for not accepting his article criticising the Dasam Granth for publication. All in all he claims a wide and calculated plot by organisations and people inclined towards RSS and the ideology of Hindutva to force The Dasam Granth upon Sikhs.

The literary significance of Dasam Granth and its writings is an academic topic which only those who are savvy at linguistics and comparative religions are apt to comment on, and which is beyond the scope of this article as well. A couple of years ago, in a TV discussion, by referring to the views of others rather than his own, Gurtej Singh had flaunted that he himself is incapable of having a literary discourse on The Dasam Granth. However there are some intriguing aspects regarding this novel stance of Gurtej Singh, and many alike, which make this whole situation somewhat puzzling.

Hypocrisy I - The Sikh Rehat Maryada:

Gurtej Singh systematically quotes in his writings that he is for the Sikh Rehat Maryada and supports the Amrit and Rehat of the Khalsa. In the last paragraphs of his latest article too he lauds the Sikh Rehat Maryada and the concept of Amrit. The core of the Sikh Rehat Maryada is based on two Sikh scriptures, Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth. The definition of a Sikh also emphasises that a Sikh is the one who " faithfully believes in the banis of all ten Gurus". Hence one who refuses to believe in the bani of any of the ten Gurus automatically ceases to be a Sikh. Of the five banes which are recited during the Amrit Sanchaar, three are from the pen of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and hence are from The Dasam Granth. The daily Nitnem of the Sikhs comprises banis from The Dasam Granth. The first pauree of the Ardas is from The Dasam Granth. The explanation to the Ardas says that the first pauree and the last pauree of the Ardas cannot be changed (because these are Gurbani). In simple words one who does not believe in the banis of Dasam Granth doesn't believe in the Amrit, Nitnem and Ardas of the Khalsa, hence is in opposition to the Sikh Rehat Maryada of the Akal Takhat. Even after opposing the basic aspects of the Sikh code of conduct, if someone still claims to be a believer of the Sikh Rehat Maryada, then he is either a hypocrite, or someone who has a serious dubious character with suspicious motives.

Hypocrisy II - Bhindranwale, RSS and Gurtej:

A few years ago in a well organised function, studded with press, Gurtej Singh declared Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale as the "Greatest Sikh of the Century". Bhindranwale achieved an unmatched status among Sikhs because he practiced what he preached. He was the embodiment of puritan Khalsa ready to sacrifice his life for righteousness, justice and self respect. It was his belief and 'shardha' in the Gurbani which made him what he was. Listening to his lectures it is clear how much respect he held for the bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, extensively quoting from Sri Guru Granth Sahib and The Dasam Granth. This was what he was. With his latest novel stance, Gurtej Singh has alienated himself from the beliefs for which Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale lived and died. If Gurtej Singh now declares everyone who believes in The Dasam Granth as stooges of RSS, then he will have to declare Sant Jarnail Singh as a stooge of RSS too, who by believing in the banis of The Dasam Granth was preaching the line of the RSS and Hindutva. If Gurtej Singh can't do that then he is playing a double-sided role. And such a person can either be a hypocrite, or someone who has a serious dubious character with suspicious motives.

Fear, Fear, Fear, where are you?

Another cunning tactic which Gurtej Singh and many alike have taken is instilling fear in the minds of the Sikhs claiming that those who believe in the bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji want to replace Sri Guru Granth Sahib with The Dasam Granth as Guru. This smart move generates fear, doesn't it? And it also plays very well in their hands. If that was the motive then Dasam Granth would have been declared as Guru decades ago. What is new is not the belief in The Dasam Granth, but disbelief in it. What is new is not the respect for the bani of The Dasam Granth, but disrespect for it. Gurtej Singh supposedly believed in the bani of Dasam Granth until sometime ago, before his new stance. Did he or anyone else, who believed in the bani of The Dasam Granth, work towards installing it as the Guru? If not, then he is implanting hollow fears. And such a person can either be a hypocrite, or someone who has a serious dubious character with suspicious motives.

An undeserved heir!

Another earlier stance of Gurtej Singh, which has put him into a serious trouble now, was his declaration that he is the real heir of the legacy of Sirdar Kapur Singh. Maybe when Gurtej Singh thought of this idea he might have deserved that status, but not anymore. Just a glimpse of the writings of Sirdar Kapur Singh too shows how much respect he held for the bani of The Dasam Granth. He quoted extensively from the banis which Gurtej Singh, and many alike, are bound to disrespect and insult. And when Gurtej Singh was confronted regarding his U-turn from his earlier stance on the TV discussion mentioned above, all he had to say was, "Kapur Singh can write anything he wants". If Kapur Singh can write anything he wants which Gurtej Singh doesn't agree with, then why on this holy earth did he decide to declare himself Kapur Singh's heir? He should also declare Kapur Singh, the brain behind Anandpur Sahib Resolution, as an RSS puppet. If he doesn't then he is either a hypocrite, or someone who has a serious dubious character with suspicious motives.

From lies to serious issues with more serious implications:

Gurtej Singh lied on the TV while declaring that "Vaar Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki" is not part of Ardas, and acknowledging the line of Kala Afghana that it is trash ('koor-kabaar'). He also lied that Bhag Singh was not excommunicated for using derogatory language against Ardas and Benti Chaupai. These issues show hypocrisy of Gurtej Singh and his U-turns from his earlier stance. And these are some very intriguing aspects to this whole situation which demand explanations. Now giving reasons for this machiavellianism can generate a lot of speculations and theories. Playing by his own rules one can also declare him as a stooge of RSS dedicated to creating confusion in the Sikh Panth. Now what has entered the mind of Gurtej Singh is everyone's guess. What is no more a guess is his outlaw nature, a novel posture destined to give a 'Coup de grâce' on Sikhism.

This was good and now

Slander on Baba Virsa Singh Ji.

From link

http://www.panthic.org/news/126/ARTICLE/2985/2006-12-20.html

Makkar's Baba Virsa Dera Visit draws Flak

Wednesday 20th of December 2006

Panthic Weekly News Bureau

New Delhi (KP) - The recent visit of Avtar Makkar to New Delhi left him in a muddle of controversies as many Panthic organizations took notice of his stopover to the Dera of Baba Virsa Sinh. Avtar Makkar was accompanied by members of Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal), Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee members, and pro-Badal workers of the Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee on his visit to meet Baba Virsa.

In a note delivered to the press, Shiromani Khalsa Panchyat's president, Rajinder Singh Khalsa expressed grief over Makkar's visit to Baba Virsa as he declared that the visit of the Makkar-led delegation to Baba Virsa before the Punjab assembly and DSGMC elections are due soon is extremely distressing.

Parkash Badal, President of the SAD, and many other Akali Dal supremos have been found guilty of seeking blessings of anti-Sikh personalities such as Ashutosh Jha of Noor Mahal and Baba Bhaniarawala. This practice is more commonly being carried out by SAD workers during the days of elections.

While rejecting that the visit was controvertial, Avtar Makkar told the press that Baba Virsa was not against the principals of Gurmat and has never been accused of any anti-Gurmat practices in the past by Sri Akal Takhat Sahib. When asked by the press, Makkar refused to disclose the reason behind the visit and left it confidential.

Former NCM Chairmain Trilochan Sinh, and Parkash Badal visiting Baba Virsa's Gobind Sadan in 2003

Panthic outfits raised concerns that even though Baba Virsa has not been asked to appear at Akal Takhat Sahib, he has yet to clarify his stand on various issues such as doing parkash of Dasam Granth Sahib along with Guru Granth Sahib, misinterpretation of bani from Dasam Granth, intermixing Sikhi and Sanatan Hindu rituals and promoting himself as a sant.

In the past, Baba Virsa has also been spotlighted for assisting the Indian Government carry out its operations against the Khalistan movement of the 90's through illegal means. He allegedly helped train police cats to work as informants against the Sikh nationalists.

Gurfateh

Amardeep Singh Ji,

Das did read Dono Waqt Kesan Mei Kangha Karna where Palna is writtan.Can you scan that Huqam Nammah and put it here.

Gurfateh

As per Panch Tantra story.

Once an Elephant sat on ground.a pit was formed.Elephant went.

Later water got collected in there.A frog mad it its home.

Once same Elephant returned and talked about sea.And So much endless water there appearing.Frog said that Elephant is fool.

As frog has not seen sea so sea can not be there.

So be Happy and Let Bijla Singh Bhai come and answer.

But anyway das does not agree to mnay thing writtan aganst Islam also.They should be target towards not the true Islam but for psedo Islam,which is product of purisst appreach like protestants in Christianity.

Akal Sahai Allah Bless.

Sister keep on praying for Umar Bhai.

Gurmat

When one sick comes to docter,we have to cure that.s2i is rather making mockery of his faith of his psedu Islam,yet he does not understand it.Some IQ probelm.Rasol(SWAS) was told by heathen that he is crazy and our Guru was also told same.

But some guys are crazy since birth or due to bigotary.Sikhs and Muslims have such things often.

Gurfateh

In Bhangu 's book we have Baba Wadhbhag Singh ji talked about as Guru.

Guru/Gurudev in Sanatan Sikhs may mean as representative of Guru Panth.Dehdhari Guru of Sikhs called Khalsa.Bhai Randheer Singh Ji,Prof Sahib Singh JI or Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji wee Guru roop as Khalsa is roo or from of Guru.

Gurfateh

ਸ਼ਰੀਅਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਤੋ ਫ਼ਜ਼ੀਲਤ ਮ-ਆਬ ॥ ਹਕੀਕਤ ਸ਼ਨਾਸੋ ਨਬੀਉਲ ਕਿਤਾਬ ॥੯॥

शरीअत प्रसतो फ़ज़ीलत म-आब ॥ हकीकत शनासो नबीउल किताब ॥९॥

He is the Source of all virtues, keeper of Dharma; He knows everything and is the Source of all Scriptures.9.

Das will only do Tran litration for this

Shariat Prasto Fazilat ma aab.Haqiqat Shansho Nabiul Kitab.

By grace of Allah das knows this language.Yuo are aware that often mnay afro carbians tend to follow Islam based upon wrong English explantions.Always it is best to learn Arebic first and interpret your self.

but even then try to read whole JafferNammah by yourself even in translated in English.We are not much differnt anyway.

Gurfateh

Hi Vijaydeep, long time!

Please do continue the debate, I have still got to address your points as well, which I will do when I get time.

Regards,

Umar

Bro,

Yuo may also have to deal Sikh answers and Isdillhon Ji.

Das can wait to have talk with you at Dargah(in front of Allah).As and when Allah want(not neccasary on Qayamat).

But did you thought of Allah with full concentration while at Salat as das requested you for that.(As you wanted to see the God of Sikhs).At that time you mistook as if Satan is inciting you to ask Allah to show Allah to your self.

Brother even while typing das is seeing Allah.That is Gurmat.Only Satan tends to come inbetween us so that Singals sent by das have noise in them.

Ang 1161 and onto Muslim Kabeer.

ਸਤਰਿ ਸੈਇ ਸਲਾਰ ਹੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ॥

सतरि सैइ सलार है जा के ॥

satar sai-ay salaar hai jaa kay.

He has 7,000 commanders,

ਸਵਾ ਲਾਖੁ ਪੈਕਾਬਰ ਤਾ ਕੇ ॥

सवा लाखु पैकाबर ता के ॥

savaa laakh paikaabar taa kay.

and hundreds of thousands of prophets;

ਸੇਖ ਜੁ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਠਾਸੀ ॥

सेख जु कहीअहि कोटि अठासी ॥

saykh jo kahee-ahi kot athaasee.

He is said to have 88,000,000 shaykhs,

ਛਪਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਖੇਲ ਖਾਸੀ ॥੧॥

छपन कोटि जा के खेल खासी ॥१॥

chhapan kot jaa kay khayl khaasee. ||1||

and 56,000,000 attendants. ||1||

ਮੋ ਗਰੀਬ ਕੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਜਰਾਵੈ ॥

मो गरीब की को गुजरावै ॥

mo gareeb kee ko gujraavai.

I am meek and poor - what chance do I have of being heard there?

ਮਜਲਸਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

मजलसि दूरि महलु को पावै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

majlas door mahal ko paavai. ||1|| rahaa-o.

His Court is so far away; only a rare few attain the Mansion of His Presence. ||1||Pause||

ਤੇਤੀਸ ਕਰੋੜੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਲ ਖਾਨਾ ॥

तेतीस करोड़ी है खेल खाना ॥

taytees karorhee hai khayl khaanaa.

He has 33,000,000 play-houses.

ਚਉਰਾਸੀ ਲਖ ਫਿਰੈ ਦਿਵਾਨਾਂ ॥

चउरासी लख फिरै दिवानां ॥

cha-uraasee lakh firai divaanaaN.

His beings wander insanely through 8.4 million incarnations.

ਬਾਬਾ ਆਦਮ ਕਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ ॥

बाबा आदम कउ किछु नदरि दिखाई ॥

baabaa aadam ka-o kichh nadar dikhaa-ee.

He bestowed His Grace on Adam, the father of mankind,

ਉਨਿ ਭੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਘਨੇਰੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥

उनि भी भिसति घनेरी पाई ॥२॥

un bhee bhisat ghanayree paa-ee. ||2||

who then lived in paradise for a long time. ||2||

ਦਿਲ ਖਲਹਲੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਜਰਦ ਰੂ ਬਾਨੀ ॥

दिल खलहलु जा कै जरद रू बानी ॥

dil khalhal jaa kai jarad roo baanee.

Pale are the faces of those whose hearts are disturbed.

ਛੋਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਰੈ ਸੈਤਾਨੀ ॥

छोडि कतेब करै सैतानी ॥

chhod katayb karai saitaanee.

They have forsaken their Bible, and practice Satanic evil.

ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੋਸੁ ਰੋਸੁ ਹੈ ਲੋਈ ॥

दुनीआ दोसु रोसु है लोई ॥

dunee-aa dos ros hai lo-ee.

One who blames the world, and is angry with people,

ਅਪਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥

अपना कीआ पावै सोई ॥३॥

apnaa kee-aa paavai so-ee. ||3||

shall receive the fruits of his own actions. ||3||

ਤੁਮ ਦਾਤੇ ਹਮ ਸਦਾ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ ॥

तुम दाते हम सदा भिखारी ॥

tum daatay ham sadaa bhikhaaree.

You are the Great Giver, O Lord; I am forever a beggar at Your Door.

ਦੇਉ ਜਬਾਬੁ ਹੋਇ ਬਜਗਾਰੀ ॥

देउ जबाबु होइ बजगारी ॥

day-o jabaab ho-ay bajgaaree.

If I were to deny You, then I would be a wretched sinner.

ਦਾਸੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਹ ਸਮਾਨਾਂ ॥

दासु कबीरु तेरी पनह समानां ॥

daas kabeer tayree panah samaanaaN.

Slave Kabeer has entered Your Shelter.

ਭਿਸਤੁ ਨਜੀਕਿ ਰਾਖੁ ਰਹਮਾਨਾ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੫॥

भिसतु नजीकि राखु रहमाना ॥४॥७॥१५॥

bhisat najeek raakh rehmaanaa. ||4||7||15||

Keep me near You, O Merciful Lord God - that is heaven for me. ||4||7||15||

Do not go by english tranlation but if you could understand Sadhu Bhash go by Tranlitration.

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=2264

and read the Gurmukhi or Nagri text and then only if you know that script.and language is Arbic laden Farsi.

As often Raheem and Kareem are refered as Lord in translation.

More to hear from you.Akal Sahai Allah Hafiz.

Gurfateh

bhadani is one who cuts his hari when his father etc. dies.

Then Trai Mudra is older the five Ks.Sikhs can have Trai Mudra while Khalsa can have 5Ks.Two are common.

Gurfateh

the nihangs were just upset that dara singh didnt offer them free fake beards and leather vests. !

Gurfateh

If das widens the base of Nirmalas then Seva Panthi and Taksal are also a kind of Nirmalas only.

Then das finds that Taksali Nirmalas also acused Nihungs of siding with Indian Govt. duirng 1980s.

Das is making a neutral comment.

Gurfateh

Akal is only one,which is infinite(unlimited).

And das bows in feet of Hari Bhai and Balbeer Singh Ji.

Gurfateh

Das will send Bhai Bijla Singh to continue fight with you.

This forum is full of people who also did not like Anti Islam propoganda either.

Allah Bless you.

vijaydeep Singh/ Mohamad Arafeen/Vijendra Prasad Sahu.

Gurfateh

Well Nirmalas can try to make Malechhas also as Santan Sikhs.so what is wrong if das has a dialogue with Kala Afghana camp.

Answer is Das's himself gettng influnece by thier ways.So point of NeoSingh Ji is valid.That could be the reason of Nirmalas being killed at Hajur Sahib.Which UK' Santan Sikhs say were agent of Britishers.

Gurfateh

Well Bhai Amardeep Singh Ji,

He writes that Raagmala is not created by Guru and a Sikh later included it to let lines of Ragas be understod correctly.

But from his work it is clear that copy of this First Beerh was made After word by Bhai Bannu.From his work it is clear that Guru did not object the inclusion of Ragamal .Rather he calls that Sikh as Prabeen or qaulified.

Das only wrote what he read.Resst Sangat has to deicde.Das himself has studied and found that work of Alam is much more after First copy of Darbar Sahib and is differant from our Raagmala.

Gurfateh

Das contributes by two questions.

1. Can not ne person be Nihung and Nirmala at the same time?

2.We talk of state of beyond three Gunas,What about a person with three Gunas of Grashti,Nirmala and Nihung.

Gurfateh

Dara Singh once told on TV that Niuhngs were not happy about the films and outside a theatre in Jallandher,they surrounded Dara and told that he is acting as Guru in film and saying Sava Lakh Se Ek Larhaun..

Dara Singh with due respect told them that this is not the case and requested them to see the film.Niuhngs likded that and shouted Jai Karas while seeing the film.This film shows a Singh from Hindu family and with help of Muslim village defeats the oppressing feudal lords and state supporting them.

Gurfateh

Dillhon Bhai has become more like Sunny Deol of Bole So Nihal,

No If No But Sirf Jatt!

Not to be taken seriouly and forgive joker das for this kidding and sorry in advance.