Trimandeep Singh

I said that meanings certain words should be substituted with caution and according to theme of the Shabad. Trimandeep Singh

Umm, but this doesn't mention anything about effect of bani on fire.

I don't think this is applicable everywhere. I think it's because of difference in pronouniciation in various areas, from region to region. Trimandeep Singh

Oh I see it does mean fire. Okay Man, please don't bring naamdharis. They also have their own kachi banis which they consider equal to Guru Sahib's bani. Except, nihangs, I don't think any samprada does this. (I am not targeting nihangs) Trimandeep Singh

I think Jyoti means light, not fire.

Oh wow! What a beautiful pankti. Do you have panktis for fire? Dhanvaad Trimandeep Singh

I have a very interesting story to share from which we can learn about the Greatness of Sri Sukhmani Sahib. This is Daas' own story. It had been just 2 weeks when I added Sukhmani Sahib to my Nitnem. I did one Paath every day. Though I didn't see any increase in my concentration during reading bani but was still determined to do it with pyaar because of the importance given to it by mahapurush like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Sant Attar Singh Ji and Baba Nand Singh Ji. But soon due to a little bit added pressure of studies and Daas' ungrateful nature, I stopped doing it and instead did 2-3 small banis along with the mandatory Nitnem. Soon, I started feeling dhendi kala. I felt so bad. I felt less chardikala than my initial days in Sikhi when I used to read only 5 mandatory Nitnem banis. I felt injustice because I hadn't done anything anti gurmat but still, just by leaving an extra bani and switching back to original Nitnem, I lost those chardikala days. I was sad. I didn't bother to read more bani and consider it an indication by Guru sahib to do more abhyaas. Instead, I kept doing an ardaas in a formal way (not from heart) asking guru sahib to give me those days back. One day, I was having a random conversation with my parents and the topic of punjabi came up. I live in Delhi, India and here, punjabi is not taught in our schools. So, I converse with my parents in Hindi only (even today). My family often used to scold me for not conversing in Punjabi despite knowing it. My mother told me that one of her Hindu friends wanted to learn Punjabi. With a big yawn and through facial expressions, my face said I wasn't interested. But still she insisted me to listen to the story. She told me that her friend's son (20 yrs) was suffering from wheat allergy since 3 years. They took him to the best of the doctors but he wasn't cured. They left no stone unturned and even went to deras of so called sants to give them mantars so that he could be cured. But everything went in vain. Fortunately, she also approached a Sikh babaji who instructed her to do Sukhmani Sahib da paath every day. On hearing this, her son said, "Why should I read the paath of these sikhs? We are Hindus and we don't need to do this" To this, her mother replied, "Beta, we have gone everywhere else. What's the harm in trying this? ". After his mother's repeated requests, he agreed. They started reading Sukhmani sahib from Devnagari script (Hindi Lipi script) everyday. And, as we know, ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਵੀ ਰੋਗੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ All sorts of remedies have not cured the disease ਰੋਗੁ ਮਿਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਅਵਖਧੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ - the disease is cured only by giving the medicine of the Lord's Name. ... The lady's son was cured within a month and her happiness knew no bounds. They developed a lot of Shradhha for Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. They still read it everyday. I was moved by the story. Their gratefulness made me ashamed of my attitude towards my Guru. Being a Sikh, I blamed my Guru and they being a Hindu still thanked him everyday by devoting an hour of their day, praising him. Their inspiring story motivated me to resume Sukhmani Sahib. And this time, the love with which I read this bani was much more than before. I didn't expect any fal (fruit,benefit) and just did it with a blind belief that it will help me get those chardikala days back and cure the disease of ungratefulness in this Akirtkanh. Without any surprise, those days returned. Some rehats which I struggled to follow like waking up at 2am, cold water Gurmat ishnaan, dietary bibek became relatively easier. And most importantly, the focus during Amrit Vela was far more than before. I also realized a change in my behavior. If anyone disturbed me while doing Paath, I used to get mad at them after my paath was over. But now, I was calm, peaceful and smiling all the time. Random panktis would play like a tape in my mind and I used to sing them with love. Indeed, Sukhmani Sahib is Sukhaan Di Mani! ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is. ਜਿਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਬਸੈ ਸੁਨੈ ਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ॥ One, within whose mind it abides, and who listens to it with love ਤਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਆਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚੀਤਿ ॥ that humble person consciously remembers the Lord God. ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦੂਖੁ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ॥ The pains of birth and death are removed. ਦੁਲਭ ਦੇਹ ਤਤਕਾਲ ਉਧਾਰੈ ॥ The human body, so difficult to obtain, is instantly redeemed. ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੋਭਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਾਨੀ ॥ Spotlessly pure is his reputation, and ambrosial is his speech. ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਨੀ ॥ The One Name permeates his mind. ਦੂਖ ਰੋਗ ਬਿਨਸੇ ਭੈ ਭਰਮ ॥ Sorrow, sickness, fear and doubt depart. ਸਾਧ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਕਰਮ ॥ He is called a Holy person; his actions are immaculate and pure. ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਬਨੀ ॥ His glory becomes the highest of all. ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹ ਗੁਣਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ ॥੮॥੨੪॥ O Nanak, by these Glorious Virtues, this is named Sukhmani, Peace of mind. ||8||24|| Trimandeep Singh

Yes bro I do believe in paras Kala of Gurbani. When we read bani near water, it makes it amrit and when we consume it, it does have effect on us. Surprisingly, science has also proved it. When we normally read bani, then I don't think it purifies air. I think bani changes the vibrations around us but doesn't do anything to air. (Eg: if you read bani near polluted water, it will not purify all the gandh from it. It will still be impure) When we talk about fire, I can't think of any effect it will have on fire. If we talk about earth. I don't know what effect will it do the land/earth. And I don't know why but the name of the fifth element is not striking in the mind of this moorakh right now. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

I believe he loves all but gives more love to his bhagats. He loves everyone but it is we who don't want to be with him because we don't realize the reality and think this world is our destination. Also because he loves all, he always gives a second chance to us to do bhagti. I am a moorakh and not at all perfect. And not ALL is Karam. The karams which you are referring to are Sanchit and Prahlabdh karams. It is because of these karams that some are born poor, some are born with missing body parts etc. The reaction to these karams are our Vartman Karams. And we are JUDGED on the basis of these karams. If we don't have enough naam Kamaayi, then on the basis of all these karams our joon is decided. We don't realize the reality that Vaheguru is everywhere and he's an ocean and the creation is water drops. And because we are living in this illusion, we end up doing bad karams. ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ ਚਉਪੜਿ ਸਾਜਹੁ ਸਤੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥ Let righteous actions be your gameboard, and let the truth be your dice. ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਜੀਤਹੁ ਐਸੀ ਖੇਲ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥੨॥ Conquer sexual desire, anger, greed and worldly attachment; only such a game as this is dear to the Lord. ||2|| Yes, but only rare gursikhs reach their avastha when they just live as a drishta (spectator) and realizes that only Akaal Purakh is the karta (doer) and bhugta (don't know the word). We are noone to judge but the system of Joons (which are based on naam Kamaayi and karams) operates under hukam of Vaheguru. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

I think this vishraam is wrong. And the meaning you have given is also not right according to vishraam. Actually with the vishraam position, the pankti makes no sense. I think the meaning with this vishraam will be, Oh thee, I ask for Bhavani. Or Oh thee, Bhavani is my only plea. Again, how can Havan make a plea? I think ਕੀ definitely means 'of'. Where did you get this? With that vishraam, if we use Vaheguru as meaning of Bhavani, then meaning would be, Oh thee, I only ask for Vaheguru. Or it can be Oh thee, I only for ask for you. However, Bhavani is name so we can't put 'you'. With that, first meaning is correct but doesn't make sense. Just see, oh Paapiman, I only ask for Paapiman. Doesn't make sense right? I think ਕਾਰ only means a deed or work or shape. Can you give any pankti or refer to mahankosh? With that vishraam and pad chhed, I think meaning should be Oh Akaal Purakh the giver of wealth, please listen to my plea. Here you haven't done pad chhed of ਹਮਨ so I have put it's meaning as 'me/mine' only. ******************************* Nice Vichar ji Trimandeep Singh

It would help if you find a pankti where ਕੀ means through. It will help in vichar. Trimandeep Singh

Don't have much idea if it will effect fire.

If you don't know how to read Punjabi, no problem. Prefer to listen to Sukhmani Sahib in a quite place and listen it with concentration and love even if you don't understand a bit. Guru sahib (babaji) will surely accept it and bless you if you listen to Sukhmani sahib with love. In case you are busy and don't have time, then atleast don't miss it but listen to it while doing work as you wrote. Please forgive any mistakes Trimandeep Singh

This is my opinion (not trying to prove yagya gurmat or not, but honest opinion) ਸੁਣਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਭਵਾਨੀ= Please listen oh Bhavani ਹਮਨ ਕੀ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ ਕੀ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ means plea of. Whose pukaar? If you put meaning Havan then, oh Bhavani listen to plea OF Havan which doesn't make sense. Hence, ਹਮਨ needs to be a living person pleaing to someone. Also, as per your arth, how does ਕੀ mean 'through'? As per your ਹਮਨ ਕੀ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ means plea through Havan but how does ਕੀ mean through? Note: Veerji, speaking in polite tone. Trimandeep Singh

I believe in paras Kala. If we read bani near water, it becomes amrit, provided gurmukh is rehitvaan naam abhiyasi. If someone listens to Kirtan, it does have effect on him/her. In both acts, water around which bani was read is consumed and in the second one, amrit bani goes into our ears. In Havan, what role does the fire play? If you say while reading bani, it is going in our ears, then even in absence of fire, bani will go in our ears. The role of fire hasn't been told by any of the people who support heaven. You did say that Agni Devta is postman of Vaheguru. But, still without him Vaheguru will listen to us. We don't need anyone to send our message to Vaheguru. Bani is itself a talk with Guru sahib. Note: Veerji, politely Keh reha haan. Trimandeep Singh

I was going to quote exact same pankti. : )

ਸੁਣਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਹਮਨ ਕੀ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ ॥ ਕਰਹੁ ਦਾਸ ਪਰ ਮਿਹਰ ਅਪਰੰ ਅਪਾਰੇ ॥ ਸੁਣਹੁ= Please listen ਭਵਾਨੀ= Durga Ji (At a deeper level, Vaheguru Ji only because he has described him in verses before this pankti and it is Vaheguru Ji who works through avatars) ਹਮਨ= Mine(ਸਾਡੀ) ਪੁਕਾਰੇ= plea ਕਰਹੁ= please do ਅਪਰੰ ਅਪਾਰੇ= Beant kirpa [Oh Bhavani (Vaheguru, creator of durga), please listen to my plea Shower your blessings on this servant.] ********************* But again, these may be wrong. Beliefs also play a role in interpreting meanings. For me, Yagya is not gurmat. But Daas is pretty sure (no bias for Yagya but honest opinion), that 'Me' is right meaning of Haman in the pankti.(ਹੋਰ ਢੁਕਦਾ ਹੈ) Differences in belief were also a reason behind conflicting meanings among Teekakars like Prof sahib singh, Gyani Harbans Singh, Nirmale scholars etc. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Maybe, presence of ਤੁ means singular. Trimandeep Singh

1) Great Bhagat. Bhai Gurdaas Ji hasn't made any comparison in the Shabad so, it should be 'Great Bhagat' only. By 'Vadda Bhagat' I think he means that sometimes, bhagats of Vaheguru too come under 5 vices but this Vadda Bhagat always remained free of maaya (meaning kept doing bhagti with faith). 2) please can you quote pankti? Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh

Humbly request you, please read the whole message before ignoring it right away. Obviously, Daas is not a gyani and neither do I want you to restate it ji. (sarcastically anyways) Ji, Daas wasn't adamant to points given by others. You would have said that in case I ignored them and kept on giving my points only. Others respectfully replied to my views and I did the same. Disagreeing and differences in basic things (which lead to a long debate) doesn't mean I have been disrespectful. I think emotions can't be expressed on an online platform and maybe because of that you had an impression that I was being disrespectful. Daas tried to answer the counter points and by mistake, if I missed,it was not intentional. And I would be humbled if you quote the point, when I was being disrespectful towards others. I would be cautious the next time. I have quoted mostly those panktis which have been used by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji himself. And meanings provided were not altered according to my Budh. Meanings were pasted directly. Yes, I commit that I said that I will not post anymore. But the person who was debating (Paapiman Ji) himself said that we were debating respectfully. So, when the other party is agreeing to debate then why do I stop presenting my views? This debate was more of a debate between two persons than many. So I think if both agree, then there's no harm to continue as long as opinions are being presented respectfully. Bhai sahib, you don't need to fold your hands, please. I have not used Gurbani to score debating points. Gurbani not only has paras Kala but also gyaan which we used to support our views. The debate/vichar went long because of difference in basic views. Eg: we both agree that naam is essential for liberation. But then we discussed who gives naam. Finally when it was concluded Satguru gives naam, then Vichar was done on who is being referred to as Satguru. This debate went long and Daas should have stopped right there when so many differences came up. But I realized this a little late and for that, Daas is responsible. *********************** Daas has reviewed the whole debate again, and I don't think I have been disrespectful but I would say, immature who kept on opening new sub topics before completing the previous one. Still, Daas assures you that respect for all people on this forum in my mind is the same as it was before debate and hope it is the same on the other side. (Please confirm this nahi taan Rehraas Sahib dhyaan naal nhi padha jaana) Daas asks maafi in case you feel Daas wasn't respectful. I have been reading forums but contributing to a thread was a new thing for me so maybe Daas doesn't know how to express views properly. Daas will keep your points in mind next time. Edit: @hsingh6 Kirpa kar deyo ji. Tussi guilt vich chhadta Daas nu. Mainu neend ni auni ji ਮੋਹਿ ਰੈਣਿ ਨ ਵਿਹਾਵੈ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੇਖੇ ਗੁਰ ਦਰਬਾਰੇ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥ Trimandeep Singh

Yes, only then did I realize ਕੀ becomes irrelevant if Haman means Havan. But still grammar applied only according to my limited knowledge. Trimandeep Singh

Yes, you can be right here. This is possible. They may be. But we need to judge if they are according to gurmat or not. Your points are convincing. So, conclusion is- Havan may be in line with Gurmat or maybe not. At the end, you have accepted it as Gurmat and I respectfully reject it (but respect those who do it). I think it was fun doing vichar on bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Thank you Paapiman Ji Trimandeep Singh

Yes, I agree with your point that Jhatka and Havan are related. But when did I say DDT and Nanaksar do jhatka?

Okay, but now what do you say? Which meaning of ਹਮਨ is right one according to your opinion Trimandeep Singh

Bhai sahib, which mahan Kosh are you referring to? In mahan Kosh, a third meaning, (ਅਸੀਂ, ਹਮ) is also mentioned which perfectly fits in the pankti you quoted. And if we say, in that pankti ਹਮਨ means ਹਵਨ then use of word ਕੀ becomes irrelevant. Trimandeep Singh