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KaalSevak

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Everything posted by KaalSevak

  1. I'm not being a d!ck here but I genuinely hope you do one day go to India and actually study under the schools there, I actually believe you could be the perfect fit to teach Dharmic stuff to the west due to your knowledge of Abrahmic religions, something that is lacking in alot of scholars studying in various dharmic sikhi schools. I actually really enjoy your posts, you're one of my favourite posters here and I love the comparisons you draw to actual pre-Constantine Christianity. You're just way off base here. Sikhi to the max is known to be full of errors. You start seeing them once you understand bani more. People have contacted them, they just ignore it.
  2. No, you posted a faulty translation. Then built a case around it. People get these ideas because no one yet has done a proper Sampardayic english translation of Sri Dasam Granth. The translations done are done by those who haven't done santhiya or taken proper Vidya in the granth. I'd much rather trust someone like Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji who spent his entire life studying Gurmat Granths than some internet dude with spare time. I've posted Gurbani, I even retranslated what you said. How much more spoonfeeding should I do? I swear, I never called you a missionary, I said you're employing the same tactics they use except in reverse. yes, that's why Bhagat Naamdev Ji critised her and said "why do you hide when Salvation needs to be done". She's a sweeper of Paramatma's door, she takes the dust from there to granth boons (reference- Nanak prakash). Brahma literallyyyyyy went to her, asked for her to take his curse away and she flat out said I cant and he needs to do Bhakti. To even suggest that Guru Sahib would worship or tell Sikhs its ok to worship someone like that is just plain stupid. There's an exact sakhi about the nonsense you're trying to propagate. A man saw a bunch of Sants doing Hari bhajan and told them they should worship Devi. So they told him go and ask her for salvation. He went away and did his meditation, she appears before him and he asks her. She flat out says, I don't have the power for that. So he left her charan and left her. He even rebuked her with the a similar line to Bhagat Naamdev Ji (reference- Gurbani Arth Bhandar). Gurbani you know nothing about. This is why we have so many problems in the panth. People like you who have no education in the Granths, turning to people who also dont have any education who then write faulty translations and then you take them as gospel. What scholar? Please list his name. Is a bigger Scholar than Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji? Sant Ji is known as Vidya Martand and many prominent scholars all studied under him. How about Baba Teja Singh Mehron Wale? He studied under 3 different Sikh gyani schools (Taksal, Nirmale and Nihangs) and even his Teeka refers to a difference between Durga and Adi Shakti. Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji studied up Taksal too. But noooo all these prominent purakhs who spent their entire life researching Granths are all failures and you alone have stumbled onto the truth by reading one translation that was clumsily done. So don't get into these discussions about things you're not familiar with, I dont do any form of discussion about Sri sarbloh Granth as I have no knowledge of it and haven't been blessed with its Santhiya and katha yet. You can't read Gurmukhi or understand Gurbani but you're sitting here drawing up daft theories. You're the exact definition of a Khaapi Sikh. The videos are from Eminent scholars of the Panth. If you dont want to listen to their views and want to stick to your own manmat then go nuts. I'm pretty calm here, I just find it hilarious how the khoj that Sikhawareness was known for is now people refusing to read the Gurbani and relying on translations. Hilarious.
  3. I quoted this ALL from Gurbani, This was from Rama Avtar written by Guru Gobind SIngh Ji. I quoted Chandi Di Vaar from Dasam Granth, Iv posted katha from learned scholars on this, even one done by a Kathavach from Buddha Dal. But no, they're all wrong. You're translations are 100% right. I'm asking again, can you read and translate Gurbani? Can you read the Gurmukhi Script? Why wouldn't that be a logical discussion? If you want to discuss the Quran, go learn it in its original script. I say the exact same thing about Gurmukhi. I said you were doing WHAT the missionaries do, not that you were. Missionaries purposely translate certain words to mean a Devta and then use it to discredit Dasam Bani. You're doing the same, the only difference is you're not using it to discredit the bani but to propagate that Guru Sahib said Chandi is worth doing Pooja of. Iv had Santhiya of Dasam and Adi Bani. I've already shown you quotes where Durga cant grant Salvations. Like I said she's a Lehar (a wave) of Adi SHakti, not its Sargun form. The Sargun form of Adi Shakti is the Khanda. He didn't worship Durga but was worshipping Akaal Shakti, same way Guru sahib doesn't worship Ram Chandar Ji but Ram (the all pervading God). There's plenty of nuance, you won't understand it until you've had proper education on this. Do you want me to post Katha from more learned scholars? Did you listen to Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's katha? or even Bhai Surjeet Singh Ji? He's a nihang who was taught katha and santhiya of the bani by Buddha Dal. But let me guess, he's also wrong? This isn't an issue with between myself and Guru Sahib. The issue is you're misrepresenting his bani using translations and then backing off because you're position isn't held by any other esteemed Scholar. Quote frankly, I don't have the time to sit down and retranslate a bani. So post stuff you want retranslated, providing i have the time. There's plenty of people here who can do some form of translations @chatanga1 @dalsingh101 can help you . But the fact you can't read it is worrying, especially when you're on this forum trying to discuss it. Why are you flitting around the subject? Can you read Gurmukhi or not? I'll do you better. Here's the verse before it too, Brahma got cursed for being arrogant. After he got cursed, he meditated on God and Akaash bani told him to do Bhakti and Jaap. Brahma then went and fell at the feet of Chandi, here's what she said. ਪਰਿ ਪਾਇ ਚੰਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਮੰਡ ਦੁਸਟ ਅਖੰਡ ॥ (Brahma) Fell at the feel of the illustrious Chandi, the one who cut cut the demon Mund into many pieces. ਜ੍ਵਾਲਾਛ ਲੋਚਨ ਧੂਮ ॥ The one who killed Jawalash (a demon with red eyes), Lochan Doom (he could produce smoke that could blow up mountains). ਹਨਿ ਜਾਸੁ ਡਾਰੇ ਭੂਮਿ ॥੨੮॥ With Great Vigour, she killed them and threw them onto the earth. ਤਿਸੁ ਜਾਪਿ ਹੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਪ ॥ (Chandi responded) By doing Jaap (meditating), and on its completion. ਤਬ ਹੋਇ ਪੂਰਨ ਸ੍ਰਾਪ ॥ Then your curse will be complete (i.e lifted). ਉਠਿ ਲਾਗ ਕਾਲ ਜਪੰਨ ॥ So Brahma got up and meditated on the Supreme Destroyer Lord (Kaal). ਹਠਿ ਤਿਆਗ ਆਵ ਸਰੰਨ ॥੨੯॥ By forsaking everything else, he entered the refugee of Akaal. So here's Chandi telling Brahma to go and worship God. He tried your method and it completely failed, he went to worship her and she rebuked him and told him to go do Seva of Waheguru. She couldn't do anything to lift his curse. Here's a reference which again backs my translation up. https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudhikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/10_Brahma_Avtar_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--333.-.Brahma.Avtar.Katha.02.mp3 from 15:00 I'll assume you can't understand Punjabi by the look of things, I'll tell you what is said by this scholar. He says that Devi is the servant of Akaal Purakh, she gets her power from doing his seva by sweeping his floors. She also kills her own followers if they harm anyone who worships Akaal Purakh. He includes Sakhis in there of various people seeing Devi sweeping Guru Sahib's floor. He recites times of 1st Master, 2nd Master and also 9th Master where she came to do Seva of Maharaj. He's also a Sampardayic scholar. Done Katha on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, full katha on Dasam Garnth Ji and also on Suraj Prakash, Bhai Gurdas Ji vaaran. I could go on. Here's the tukh about Vishnu. Some background since you can't read the bani. Brahma spent 10 lakh years doing Bhakti of Akaal Purakh Ji and eventually Akaal Purakh Ji spoke to him, telling him that he fell out of favour due to his arrogance and he needs to assume various incarnations to redeem himself. Here's the tukh regarding Vishnu. ਇਕ ਕਹੋ ਔਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥ ਸੁਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੁਮਾਰ ॥੩੬॥ Listen to one more thing Brahma my son. ਇਕ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਧਿਆਨ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਰਿਝਾਨ ॥ There is Vishnu who meditated on me, he did alot of Seva (service) and this pleased me. ਤਿਨਿ ਮਾਗਿਆ ਬਰ ਐਸ ॥ ਮਮ ਦੀਨ ਤਾ ਕਹੁ ਤੈਸ ॥੩੭॥ He asked for a boon, that which I granted and will tell you. ਮਮ ਤਾਸ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਸਬ ਲੋਕ ਜਾਨਤ ਸੋਇ ॥ He asked that people know that there is no difference between us. ਤਿਹ ਜਾਨ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ ਸਬ ਲੋਕ ਅਲੋਕ ਪਹਾਰ ॥੩੮॥ He asked that People know him to be the creator, that people in this world, the unseen world and the people who reside in mountains. https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudhikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/10_Brahma_Avtar_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--333.-.Brahma.Avtar.Katha.02.mp3 From 22:00. I have told you. You keep purposely using the translation in the final stanza to mean Durga Devi, when its a reference to Akaal Purakh Ji or Akaal Shakti. There's multiple translation of the word "Durga".
  4. Again, all you're doing is reading the translations. As I've said Multiple times You can translate Durga to mean the Unconquerable one, You're doing the EXACT same tactics that missionaries . You look at the word and suddenly associate it with the Devta, The missionaries use this to discredit Dasam Bani and you're using it to further confuse yourself and others. Take for example at the end of Rama Avtar, Guru Sahib writes "Bishan Bhagat ki eh phal hoyi" The translators (which you're relying on) translate it to mean Vishnu Devta, But the actual Arth is referencing Bishan (The one who resides everywhere, aka Akaal purakh). The entire bani of Uggardanti is referencing a Formeless Entity, that's why the being that is Eulogised is also described as being Krishan, Parasram, Bavan, Rukhmani, Kaushilya, Durbasha too. I'm sorry but have you done Santhiya of Dasam? Can you read Gurmukhi? I just showed you a quote where Adi Bani that literally said she cant grant Salvation, so tell me why Guru Gobind Singh Ji would eulogise her? For the record this view is also propagated by Nihang Kathavach too. Here's proof of that. I'll turn to this to point out the inconsistencies in the translation, since its easy pickings. The translator has translated "ਜੋਗ" as worthy and "ਧਯਾਣੀ" as worship. Both are off base, ਜੋਗ can also mean Yoga or union, "ਧਯਾਣੀ" means to focus on. That tukh can easily be translated as "You're also the one who mediates on God, using the methods of Yoga" Before we continue this, I need to ask 3 questions. 1) can you read Gurmukhi and understand it 2) Have you completed Santhiya and full katha of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Ji 3) are you reading the translation or the bani?
  5. At no point did I say a Sikh should sit on his ass, eating and getting fat while phering a mala. Nor did I say a Sikh shouldn't be training in Martial arts. Sant Ji also trained, as did every other Mahapurakh. What I meant was by Bhakti was that you need to be strong in spirit and appease Akaal so that your task (which requires Shakti) will also be fulfilled, you can't do anything without power and that power for us comes from Gurbani (ergo Bhakti). That's why Singhs did Jaaps of Dasam bani before going into war, that's why we do Ardaas before embarking on any task. doing Jaap of Dasam bani is a form of Bhakti. That's why Nihangs even say Bani first then Bana. Apologises if that wasnt clear enough on my part, english isn't my first language.
  6. Yes, you can ask any Vidhvan they'll say the same thing. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji did alot of Bhakti before embarking on the Dharamyudh morcha, Baba Deep Singh Ji Maharaj also did alot of Bhakti, there isnt a Mahapurakh who hasn't done Bhakti. You don't gain power without doing Bhakti, that's exactly what Guru Sahib was pointing out in his banis. The Daints do Bhakti to gain Shakti to overthrow the Devtas, when they gain raj they stop and start doing paap, while the Devtas do their Bhakti to gain their powers back or appeal to someone higher up for help. No it's not "the facts" You're reading translations, tell me when Guru Sahib says I worship Ram, who's talking about? The all pervasive Lord or Ram Chandar Ji the avtar of Vishnu? You're fixating yourself on the body and the chand you again quoted, they translated Durga to mean Durga Devi, another arth of Durga is Durg meaning fort and Durga then meaning the unconquerable one (the unconquerable fort). Here's the bani from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥ तू कहीअत ही आदि भवानी ॥ Ŧū kahī▫aṯ hī āḏ bẖavānī. You are called the Primal Goddess. ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ ॥੪॥ मुकति की बरीआ कहा छपानी ॥४॥ Mukaṯ kī barī▫ā kahā cẖẖapānī. ||4|| At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4|| Why would Guru Sahib tell his sikhs to focus on someone who can't even granth liberation? Here it is again. ਦੁਰਗਾ ਕੋਟਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਮਰਦਨੁ ਕਰੈ ॥ दुरगा कोटि जा कै मरदनु करै ॥ Ḏurgā kot jā kai marḏan karai. Millions of Durga goddesses massage His Feet. ਜਉ ਜਾਚਉ ਤਉ ਕੇਵਲ ਰਾਮ ॥ जउ जाचउ तउ केवल राम ॥ Ja▫o jācẖa▫o ṯa▫o keval rām. When I beg, I beg only from the Lord. ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸਿਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ आन देव सिउ नाही काम ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Ān ḏev si▫o nāhī kām. ||1|| rahā▫o. I have nothing to do with any other deities. ||1||Pause|| She's still considered a Devi, their strongest one by far. But she's still a lehar of Akaal Purakh's Shakti. If you want proof of this then again read Chandi Di Vaar. The first tukh is after Guru Sahib's eulogy is ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਥਮਿ ਮਨਾਇਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ then in the same verse later on Guru Sahib says ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥ The FIRST thing that Akaal established is his Primal Power/Maya/Kaal etc and then he created the rest, Durga included. You can read more about this in Baba Teja Singh Mehron Wale Ji's teeka on Dasam Bani. The final Charitar 405 will shed light on it. Durga is considered a wave in the infinite majesty of Akaal Shakti, but Akaal Shakti's Sargun Saroop is always his Sword. Your doing the exact same tactics that missionary etc too. They read the word and attach it to the Devta, they do it with Chandi Charitar too. She hasn't "earned" the right to be worshipped, if she's incapable of granting Mukhti then why would any Sikh want anything to do with her? The only person who "earned" the right to be worshipped was Vishnu Bhagwan. He did the proper aradhana and then begged Akaal Purakh Ji to allow people to woship him as God. Akaal Purakh Ji granted it. Even then Guru Sahib told his sikhs not to worship him Here's katha by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji The poster was kind enough to shorten specific sections at the start but you can listen to the full one on here. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji's katha too. I can post more katha too.
  7. I've been coming on here for a while now, just reading stuff mainly. But I felt I should atleast answer what's written here. Durga hasn't earned the right to be worshipped, People associated her with the Adi Shakti but she's Adi Shakti in the same way we're all also manifestations of Akaal Purakh Ji. Durga is spawned by Akaal Purakh Ji when he needs someone to handle something, when it comes to War even she nearly lost and had to flee the battlefield at one point. She's also incapable of granting Mukhti and Bhagat Naamdev Ji says this, Guru Granth Sahib Ji even stated that there's countless Durgas who massage (serve) at Akaal Purakkh Ji's feet. That's why some Vidhvans also translate her name in Chandi Di Vaar a different way. In Chandi Di Vaar She's called DurgShah, they translate Durg to mean fort but rather than using Shah as the arabic/persian word but shah as "Shahe" meaning shade, as in The one who resides in the shade (refuge) of the Durg (the fort of Waheguru Ji). In Uggardanti Bani Guru Sahib is talking about a formless form of Akaal Purakh Ji's Shakti. The Sargun Saroop of that Shakti is the sword, the Kharag and so on. Just like Guru Sahib talks about the Nirgun Parmatma and the Sargun Saroop of that is Guru Sahib himself. That's why the Bani calls her Krishan, Parasram etc too, because where Paramatma is, his power is also vested there. The tukhs regarding "Har Har Japanti" is to illustrate to Sikhs that even Akaal Purakh Ji's Shakti will one day meld into him, its dependant on him entirely. Since Guru Sahib describes it as the sword lets use that Analogy. A Warrior carries the sword, but without the warrior the sword can't do anything. The warrior is its master and forger. Dasam Focuses on that "Shaster" of Akaal Purakh Ji and its power. That's why this primal power prays to Akaal Purakh Ji. This was to link back to Bhakti because from Bhakti comes Shakti, The most powerful force outside of God would then naturally meditate on God too. The warrior can easily make a new sword but can the sword make a new warrior? When Mahaparloh comes, Even Shakti will be subsumed into Akaal Purakh Ji. Only he will remain. Other Avtars had to do alot to appease Durga because they all worshiped her for power and strength But unlike the other avtars, Guru Sahib is Akaal Roop himself. The Power was always there in their presence.
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