dirtyd21

theres the obvious thing to do - dont get involved with anyone and then you will not be able to carryout acts of lust that you may look back on and regret or may look back on with fondness life isnt that simple, and some times people get together regardless of what they are told is the wrong or right thing to do i respect people that are able to go through their entire life and not get involved with anyone before their married. I think that was posssible a couple of decades ago and when our parents were growing up - cos as soon as you hit your late teens you were married off. Now a days there are a lot of 20 somethings that are unmarried - some actively looking for their spouse - some just thinking 'if it happens it happens' and not forcing the issue. Some of these unmarried 20 and 30 somethings will inevatbly get involved with other people before they are married. Some will get involved with people that they think they will marry, some will hope they will marry, and some who just want to be in a relationship of convenience with no pressure. I wouldnt actively encourage people to do it - but i wouldnt look down on them as though they had done something wrong either. Its quite a tricky situation as we all know whats right and wrong but some people reach a certain point in their life where they want a partner. We live in a western world, I live in England, Ive seen how some gorai behave with regards to relationships (not all) - I wouldnt want that to be prevalant in our culture, it does exist though within certain circles. My point is - there should be an open dating scene of some kind within our culture that isnt frowned upon. Parents are protective understandably and yes there are obvious risks involved. Things are moving on and some parents encourage their kids to be open with them and dont think the worst if they are seeing someone. There obviosly needs to be a balance though. Its weird - if we were having an operation we would obviously want a doctor who had a decent level of experience before they operated on you - you wouldnt want anyone who had never carried out an operation in their life. But when it comes to relationships - some people flip when they hear that their potential spouse has seen someone before them - how dare they! Very rarely does anyone think - well theyve been in a relationship before, may be they have some important kwnoledge and experience to bring to this marriage. and yes there is a balance to be drawn between healthy and unhealthy relationships. I know ive waffled - possible gone off subject with my orginal post - but thats my trade mark - i talk utter crap sometimes. Is it wrong for us to act on lust - i dont know, possibly. Is it wrong for 20 somethings to be involved in relationships with people their not married to before they are married, possibly - but who are we to judge.

is it right for us to act on lust? is it ok for 20 something sikhs who arnt married - waiting to find their partners for marriage to be involved in relationships?

i warched it - and i thought the film was crap it took ages to set the scene - typical love story element chucked in for no reason - a third of teh film was spent on that - there was a brief bit on the Hindus goin on their killin spree on the Sikhs - that wasnt really gone in to the detail it deserved - it was like a 20min slot chucked in to keep the Sikhs happy and so short to make sure the Inidan censors were happy. The rest of teh film was about Sikh terroists - about how evil they were to exploit the climate of fear and how they were just alcoholics. I was well hacked off when i watched it. Really was. Thats the last time I watch a Hindi film - theyre all crap -especially one sold as being an accurate protral of the suffering Sikhs had during teh riots. Im write my own god damn script or book about it. Cant wait for the day when a proper Sikh film is released. Like the blacks in America - they felt something special when tehy saw Malcum X - with Spike Lee a Black African American directing it - showing the suffering they had, the strugle they went through. This film was a serious waste of 3 hours of my life and I aint watching another until someone from either the UK or America makes one or a Sikh from Inida makes one. Thing is Indian censorship being the way it is and the red tape involved with making a film the way you want in India - I aint holdin me breath. I spoke to someone the other day who lived in Dehli during the riots - most of his family got killed, for a year he lived in Punjab thinking his entire family had been killed Dehli. A year later - eventually - he discovred his father was still alive - each thought the other was dead. For a whole year they didnt know the other was alive. I hear so many stories about what went on during that time. I aint naive to think that as a result some Sikhs didnt behave in teh best - but hey have a bloody balance. - Film was pants - and Im vexed at teh way film tries to just brush what went on under the carpet.

I read the book 'Operation Blue Star' and to be honest I had tears when I read some of the stuff that went on. I was really disturbed that people were treated the way they were. Im proud of my Inidan roots - but part of me wanted to disown India for what teh govt did in 1984. Because of this I dont wear anything with the Indian flag on it as my own protest for my own peace of mind. I get annoyed when the youth walk round with the Indian flag and t-shirts during and when I mention what happen in 1984 they aint got a clue that it occured. They usually think Im bullshitting them. Hopefully this will educate the youth about what happend and get them more involved with the Sikhi sides of things. I aint seen a decent Sikhi film since 'Ucha Dar Babae Nanak Da'. Its about time something decent came out with a Sikhi slant. The govt might not have convicted anyone and forgot about all those that died - may be this will help us remember and help those widowed and orphanded.

this link doesnt work!!! u taken it off or something?

I have done - first i was tol dtehy dont do that, tehn i was tol dthey would be, when i asked when - i was told later this year, i asked around april may time, and when i asked when teh eta was for it to be loaded - i was told november december??? i'll do an ardas, i suggest we all do - and hopefully its up at teh start of teh new student year and in teh mean time they manage to contact some of tehir sikh society contacts from last year and gather some stuff to put on teh web for now... i'll email again actually - i suggest we all do

thanks for compliment bitesize is good - but theres no overall nationwide sikhi programme for teh youth nor is there a nationwide youth forum set up to come up with ideas which are executed. BOSS do their bit - but I was a little suprised that no one at boss has got a catalogue of any of the sikhi talks, presentations programmes that their different societies do. Think of all them resources - all the different societies up and down the country, all teh different programmes and talks. Someones always recording em. - most of its in audio - none of this reading and getting bored stuff - the video footage, most of it in English - no ones got it documented logged and ready to distribute to teh sangaat. Thjis is what i mean by getting your act together. Seriously its about time that we really did start being a bit more helpful, informative and organised. These are suggestions not insults. From what Ive seen people, espcially kids - pick up more from listen and watching than reading - as exciting as reading is. You absorb more when you watch a video than when you read a book - theres an element of sharing as well when you watch and listen - points to discuss with each other. Anyway - im starvin - im off

speaking from personal experience about this - i dont know why girls do it, or boys for that matter. In the circumstances that i know of there has always been a boyfriend involved or girlfriend. Low self esteem also figures and a lack of basic contriol for tehir lust. i think everyone wants to feel apart of something. I remeber when i went to my first Sikhi camp and i felt a sense of belonging, uthoria, pride and love jsut at being there. Now they cut out all my other sangaat, and allowed me the opportunity to be round more Sikhs, and helped me have a lot more Sikhi in my week than I normally would. These conversion things i guess happen in a similiar way - they cut out alot of what is improtant for you to for your Sikhi to survive- and make you dependent on them and then thy introduce their idelogies to you. A well grounded person, or a person with self confidence in Sikhi wouldnt fall for it. But the thing is - anyone who can control their lust wouldnt be in that situtaion in the first place. The thing about sangaat has come up and its true. Hang around with people who swear and you swear more, hang around people with such idelogies when you lack the basic knowldge of you own and you will adopt theres. Its unfortunate, but I think the Singhs success when they emigrated here has been its youths down fall. Everyone I know went on mad missions to to earn enuff to pay off there mortage and make sure their kids dint have it as hard as tehm. kids were a priority but as a result of all teh double shifts- the basic grounding in Sikhi wasnt taught as tehy were never home to teach their kids. If we were raised in India - we would have picked it up - cos Sikhi is practically everywhere - and we would have nmore of a Sikhi sangaat (granted Sikhi has its own theats there too but we woiuld have grown up with Punjabi as our first language, bani as a daily ritual and understood powerful and passionate Sikhi speakers like San Jarnail Singh, Baba Mann Singh). instead most of us grew up with a fraction of teh Sikhi in the family taht we should have been exposed to, but with friends of different cultures which rubbed off on us. If teh Singhs had not been the sucess they have been, and more were unemployed then in theory more would have had teh opportunity to concentrate on teaching teh Sikhi side of things to teh youth. They would have had more time to spend with the kids. Its about time that we did that now. Theres things being set up, Sikh study courses, Sikhi camps and its good to see some of teh positive steps being made, but teh facts are tehre- theres still conversions - theres still people without the knowldge, and tehres loads of little Sikhi organsiations here there and everywhere, but no one main one that could educate everyone. A bit like the GCSE's - no main body for Sikhi educataion. Theres various but to be honest the information they offer is a little limited. Other faiths have advanced with the times and produced films, cartoons, and music which help explain their faith to the nexct gernation. we havent, emabarssingly we havnt and its crying shame. Knowledge is a powerful thing - without it your weak and just an empty vesel ready to be filled with crap - hense the conversions. Its about time taht teh Sikhi community got its act together and spent a bit of money on educating their kids instead of getting a few students to write a coupleof artciles in tehir free time. about the conversions Bhai Mardana was a muslim, as was Bhagat Kabeer - they followed teh word of God and received the Anand that they desired - because they recognised teh fact that we are all part of god and were willing to hear our Gurus. At teh moment many religions have just been hijacked and the true elements taht might have sent a dcisiple of taht faith down a good path have been lost. If someone converts because they decided it was for the good of them - then good luck to em. However if they convert because a partner is involved - you seriously have to question the motives behind tehre conversion - is it to get close to god - or just so tehir partner doesnt leave em? Which brings us back to my initial point - if you cant control lust, or any of teh five thieves - your screwed Ive said my ten pence worth - Im sure there was point in there somewhere - thanks for those taht read it - i just had a look and it seems a tad bit long winded. excuse the poor spelling, grammer and offence that anyone might have taken.

WJKK, WJKF Brothers and sisters, I really want to get hold of as many bits of kirtan, katha done with English translations. I dont get a chance to go to any of the BOSS programs anymore and would really appreciate it if people could send me stuff or let me know who I can contact to get it. I've contacted BOSS about some of the student programs that they run and they plan to put some of the porgrams they have up on tehir website twoards the end of the year. Some one must have recorded the little speaches made, the kirtan sessions etc. Theres always someone recording be it via tape, mini disc, or film. I really want to get hold of such resources and would really appreciate it if people who have anything that has been delivered in English or anything delivered in Punjabi but accompanied with english translation. If you have anything like this - or if your that mystery person who set up the video recorder at the end of the hall please contact me. I dont mind paying for cost for the copying and the cost of the postage. Thank you

WJKK, WJKF At the moment Im trying to get some kirtan and katha with english translations - does anyone know where I can go to download them? or who I should email or write to get a hold of them? Im also trying to track down some of teh speaches that are done during the Sikhi talks at uni (Northern Sikhi week, etc). I've alwyas noticed that theyve either been filmed or recorded - who keeps these recordings and is there a central reserve for them? Shouldnt they be put on teh boss site somewhere?

At the moment Im going through a similiar thing to Nicky and offer my sympathies to her and any one else who has either experienced death or is experiencing it at teh moment. Im grateful that everyones suggested things on a Sikhi front about those loved ones that leave us and how much better it is for them where they are now. I just want to make a few points and I wanna apologise in advance for my dodgy spelling and also if I offend anyone with my opnions. I just have a few things to say and want to air them. Its always easier for other people to rationalise the experience or hardship your going through and although looking at your situation with logic often brings the clarity to situation required for you to move on, it sometimes doesnt help. Sometimes you need to eveolve as a person at your own pace and deal with things your way and be told how to deal with things. I think it takes some strength of character, and a real strength of faith for you to not be affected by death. There is no shame in crying. Its often caused by emotions that your enetitled to. For some it isnt contrsuctive to cry - when you apply the rational Sikhi viewpoint on death - it doesnt seem appropriate to cry. 'Why cry? you cant bring them back, it isnt going to achieve anything'. The thing is - youve just lost someone close - why shouldnt you cry? If your upset shed a tear if that helps you deal with the situation. If you want to be depressed and down about it in order to grieve then do so. You are entitled to grieve. Most of us havent seen half the hardship that our parents have seen or have got half the strength of resolve of some of the older generations. Yet they seem to come to terms with things a lot quicker than us. Sikhi and life is about learning from expereinces. Death is inevitable - and we all have to figure out ways to deal with it. We live in an age where we are kind of used to asking questions and getting some kind of answer. Where if we want to know how something works we can be given a demonstartion, a diagram and even a working example if necessary. In an age where if we like something and it broke or went missing we get it replaced. Death defys these traits that we're used to. If someone dies - although the soul never dies and we are aware that they'll either be at one with God or reincarnated its still doesnt erase the fact that theyve gone. Their no longer in your company, and unfortunatly your never going to have the pleasure of their company again whilst your alive. You cant go to the shop and get them replaced. People rationalise it and try to put a positive spin on it, but its like that maths lesson at school where you didnt have a clue what the teacher was on about but new that it must work beacuse the teacher was telling you that it worked. Remember how hard your head felt, as though your head was gonna explode, the anxietyt. Only after putting the work in did it sink in or may be it never sinked in. My hearts always felt like that whenever someones passed away - as though it was gonna explode with the pain and grief - but I keep getting told about how much better they are where they are. I can see the 'Sikhi equation' on death. I kind of understand it - but it still hurts to try to deal with death. Some people never understand maths and have difficulty undersanding certain complex equations - some people never undertsand death and always have difficulty coming to tearms with it. Im aware that I need to put the effort into my Sikhi and may be in time I'll truly understand how to deal with the emotion of losing a loved one. You cant get a attched to people, they come and go. God is always there - your faith in good is what carrys your through life - through teh good and bad. God will alwyas be there. I can be told as many positive rational things about death, most make sense but unfortunatly at this period in my life they dont make it easier to deal with death. They dont make the mourning and grief easier. Its inevitable - people in your life will die. Loved ones will leave you - to be with God - I just dred the day that I lose any of my parents - that situation im afrad would too difficult to rationalise. Wjkk wjkf