Sat1176

Welcome mate and god bless you on your journey

Your not alone brother, feel exactly the same way.

Bhai Dharamjit plays an audio of Shabad Ghanaray sounds.

Was listening to a bibi’s account the other day where she wanted to do simran in the early hours but kept on falling asleep. She said a voice resembling a mahapursh would come beside her and say in the sweetest voice “Na bibi jago, simran karo” Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Piarae

It really depends on the context in which they are being used but this is how das understands them in simplistic terms.

Have you ever been or you just basing this on what you have heard? For anyone reading go with a open mind if you want to learn and progress on the bhagti marg of simran abhiyas. You don't get all the usual chitter chatter you experience with regular gurdwaras. Nore will you get the sangat that just go for Langar. It's a place where people go to try and learn to walk on the path. Yes it's strict and anyone causing a disturbance when sangat are trying to concentrate and meditate will be warned. Personally I think that is a good thing. After attending here and going to a regular gurdwaras you really notice the difference about how disrespectful general sangat are in guru ji's darbar and how little knowledge is shared about improving oneself and walking on the the path.

What red flags do you see?

Funny you mention recordings as they are forbidden at this gurdwara. Anyone caught recording will have their phone/recording device confiscated and told to delete the recordings. I remember when I first started attending I was blown away by all material and gyan. It was so much so that you couldn't even remember it all or you wanted to hear it again when you got home to absorb what you had been taught. So I went and got a professional recording device. At that time I never knew recordings where prohibited. The first week I recorded a divan, the second week someone must have noticed and told a sevadar. The sevadar came and snatched it off me right in the middle of a divan. I got blasted at by Ajit Singh right there from the stage. The sign said turn off your mobile phones, not that recordings weren't not allowed so I was left feeling quite upset. Anyway after the divan I asked the sevadar if I could have my device back. They made me delete everything and told me never to record again. I agreed and respected their wishes. However I was dumbfounded as to the reason because when were recordings ever forbidden in a gurdwara of kirtan and katha? If bhai sahib was teaching how to meet god as per teachings of gurbani why was it such a big secret and recordings forbidden? My intension was not to use his words to defame him or otherwise. At the time various videos of Bhai Seva Singh were coming out that were causing a stir. As I attended more I noticed during simran ladies especially would get quite biraagi or scream. Maybe recordings were forbidden because they didn't want to those aspects getting out. It definately startled newcomers until you became used to it. Anyway I once asked a sevadar why recordings were forbidden and the response I got back was that Bhai Ajit Singh gave his word to Bhai Sewa Singh that he would never make himself famous. If you look at the old photos / videos you will always see Ajit Singh standing on Sewa Singh's right. Must have been a lot of love and respect between them. Therefore there is very limited media available from Ajit Singh in the public domain. It is a sign of utmost humility. Once I recall Bhai Ajit Singh saying to the sangat that he asked Bhai Sewa Singh ji what title were they after they had completed their own personal journey under Sewa Singh's guidance? At the time Sant title was being used a lot. We're they Sants, Sadhus, Bhagat or even Brahmgyani. Bhai Sewa Singh said they were Gurmukh according to gurbani and to think of themselves as Koi. Koi arn mellavey mera pretam pyaraa. These Gurmukhs come show the way to meet god as per gurbani and leave no trace behind of themselves. It's the teaching and name of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that should always remain and not that of an individual. If this is truly why there are very few recordings available then you got to respect him because he has kept his word to his teacher even though other students of Bhai Sewa Singh do not do the same. One could also argue that we are now in a digital age and one should be able to tune in no matter which country or time zone you live in. Also if the teaching is 100% as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji why hide it and restrict it to only those who attend the gurdwara. Isn't it time to truly promote naam simran as per gurbani. Yes and no, if you start promoting before you have made it yourself then your wasting your own precious time because you first need to worry about yourself before you can truly help others. Make it to Waheguru first then worry about promoting the teachings. Anyway Bhai Ajit Singh was my first teacher and I have immense respect for him. If it wasn't for him I don't I would have walked on the path of naam simran. Even though I have now spoken to quite a few Gurmukhs from Bhai Sewa Singh tree Ajit Singh was my first and holds a special place in my heart. It was their sangat lead me to walk on this path of naam simran and his lessons will remain with me for as long as I live. Blessed are those minds who have sangat of these gurmukhs. If your searching and longing to meet Waheguru they will try and show you the way. Rest is down to how much personal effort you put in and how much bhagti you can do to clean this mind. Dhan are the sangat who can step away for their lives and devote months to do bhagti at this gurdwara as PCSJZ stated.

Nice to know that some worthy students do get the more advanced teachings.

It's a very good Gurdwara to attend if you want to learn about simran and bhagti. Very few places like it in the UK where sangat actively come together to learn about bhagti and be inspired to jap the gurmantar. My biggest growth happened when I attended regularly. Divans generally consist of gurbani shabads sung in dharna style kirtan so sangat get to participate with loads of swas giras simran in between at various levels of intensity. Great emphasis is placed on learning about taking the mind of tre-gun maya (tamo gun, rajo gun, sato gun thoughts) with aid of swas-giras simran. Your taught how your to look at everyone as the roop of Waheguru and to rise above the prejudices of caste and creed. Great emphasis is placed on the inward journey and to reach the avasta of anhad bani which is not even discussed/mentioned in general Sikh circles. When Bhai Sewa Singh Tharmala passed away I think all the main original students of his broke away and have started to teach independently under their own respective banners. The core teachings generally remain the same but they don't place much emphasis on going to Moga to devote 4 years to the path. Although I find at GMGG there is very little taught beyond progressing above swas-giras simran. If it is then it is very lightly brushed over and not gone into too much detail. I suspect that is probably taught to those who are dedicated and able to commit to a serious amount of bhagti staying on site for months. That is why after attending sangat there for many years I slowly started drifting and wanted to learn more deeper stuff. In the earlier years when they used to be based in Swindon, divans used to be 3 hours long. Since they moved to Slough Bhai Sahib generally only does 1.5-2 hours if your lucky. He has given first hour to his son to teach in English. I miss those Swindon days and it never really felt the same once they moved to the more larger site. Yes some of the old sangat seem to have disappeared so there are probably some internal issues going on, but I just attended divans and left. Some have gone off under the guidance of Bhai Dharamjit Singh of Gurmat meditation and not sure where the others have gone. There is now a lot of international sangat from Canada attending at the 4 day simran camps. Students of Bhai Dalbir Singh Tharmala have started their own programmes across various gurdwaras around the UK under the banner of PMKC UK. Bhai Ajit Singh stopped using that name once he broke away from the main Moga hub. From an outsider looking in I will say it's sad to see that all Bhai Sewa Singh's student's now teachers themselves don't come together given the opportunity even though some still appear to be friends. Especially since they teach everyone to rise above the vices of the mind, but they still got their own personal issues going on between themselves behind scenes. As for Bhai Anantvir Singh he is a professional kirtania. He did attend a 4 day simran abhiyas camp few years ago where he also did kirtan in the evenings. Anantvir definately walked away with a greater appreciation of naam simran and even his kirtan changed to encompass simran even more. You will also hear Anantvir say during his kirtan focus on the sound of your own voice and not mine during simran. He picked this all up in just 4 days. GMGG do not call or let other kirtanias or katha vachaks occupy the stage at their gurdwara beyond members of the sangat singing shabads. They want to sangat to focus on the core teachings of gurbani and simran abhiyaas and their own personal development. Historical saakhis and other stuff is given less importance on stage. Still don't let that discourage you and I would still recommend the place to anyone. If one is thirsty to progress on the spiritual path then I don't know of a better place in the UK for Sikhs.

I'm editing the original post as I get more references and info... May move this to it's own topic because it's a very important and very difficult to get accurate descriptions of these states and terms. I know different people say different things and use the terms interchangeably. Very few gurmukhs will even divulge much information about these states other than simply say your on the right path so keep going. It is truly esoteric.

I was personally struggling to understand the difference between sunn and sehaj. Wasn't until recently I think I got finally got it. Sunn aka sunn samadhi is when you loose total mental and body awareness. (i.e. like deep sleep) Sehaj is a very relaxed drowsy state where partial awareness and no thoughts. Happens as you come out of Sunn. (ref. https://akathkatha.in/station/simran-gyan-56/) SGGS Ang 807 : need pa-ee, sukh sahj ghar aa-i-aa. rahaa-o. Now when I read the above line it all makes sense. You go into Sunn and then when you come out your in a Sehaj state for a certain amount of time. There are also ways of telling if you want into Sunn or just fell asleep. Ref.: https://akathkatha.in/station/simran-gyan-4/ Sunn Fall quickly into Samadhi and also when you come out it's like you suddenly awoke fully conscious and alert wondering what just happened. Last you recall is that you were doing simran with full dhyan. Feel fresh and alert when you come out samadhi. Body does not feel tired. No dreams are experienced in this state Sleep One slowly drifts into sleep Can feel tired and lethargic when one awakes from sleep Has dreams One will also go into Sunn Samadhi at all stages of the path. Saas Giras Simran ----> Sunn (no consciousness) ---> Sehaj (regain consciousness but have no thoughts at this time) Saas Saas Simran ----> Sunn (no consciousness) --->Sehaj (regain consciousness but have no thoughts at this time) Rom Rom Simran ----> Sunn (no consciousness) --->Sehaj (regain consciousness but have no thoughts at this time) Listening to Sehaj Dhun --->Sunn (no consciousness) --->Sehaj (regain consciousness but have no thoughts at this time) Listening to Naad ----> Sunn (no consciousness) --->Sehaj (regain consciousness but have no thoughts at this time)

Very good Simran Akath Katha.

Since Covid I found that I have moved to doing most of my simran virtually online or on my own but I'm now beginning to feel like I miss doing Jaap physically in the presence of like minded sangat. When your on your own it's very easy to go into Sehaj quickly and no one to pull you out after a certain amount of time. Thought it would be idea to compile of list of Gurdwaras where we know where sangat congregate physically to do simran jaap together. UK West London Guru Maneyo Granth Gurdwara - Bath Road, Slough. (Daily, First Saturday of the Month (5-5pm), Sunday Afternoon's Main Divan) https://www.gmggurdwara.com/ Ramgarhia Sikh Gurdwara, Slough - (Not sure of timings, PMKC UK lead) East London Gurdwara Karamsar, High Road Ilford. (Every Sunday 4pm-5:30pm - Bhai Gurdeep Singh, PMKC). Gurdwara Singh Sabha London East (Seven Kings) High Road, Ilford, Essex IG3 8SX Every Tuesday 6:45-7:45pm

Sorry but the clues may have been misinterpreted by you and now you’re in an area that is out of your depth and the people who wrote them are not here either to guide you or hold your hand. They are not here to give you assurances that you go through these stages and how to handle and progress beyond them.

Bro, Are you taking instruction from a teacher about what techniques you should be doing for your spiritual practices? You seem to have been greatly impacted by physic abilities. If your going it alone and just following books and what not then be careful. You may want to have a chat with one of the gurmukhs from pmkc and tell them what your experiencing. From what I’ve heard one should always keep anhad Shabad with them when doing dhyan. From what I have read from your posts you don’t do gurmantar Jaap but go straight onto dhyan techniques. maybe start with Bhai Ramanpreet Singh in US. He speaks good English so you may be able to communicate effectively with him. Bhai Dharamjit Singh from Gurmat Meditation is another helpful and experienced soul. There is also Bhai Nirvair Singh from Akal Sahai Waheguru Naam Leva but he is keen on taking on fresh students and not those linked or attached to others or come with loads of gyan as there is too much to unlearn and start again, but he still might be able offer you some guidance or let you know if you have gone off the beaten track. I would be seriously concerned if I were you. In Q&As with Gurmukhs, I have heard people mention harassment from entities. But over time and with guidance these things went away and no longer harassed abhiyasis. You need help and I’m not sure if your getting it because you mentioned this before. Get a 2nd opinion from someone else other than Sant Jagjit Singh. No offence intended bud, but you have been struggling with this for a while now and from what I’m reading it’s getting worse.

£100 - £300 depending on model and brand. https://ninjakitchen.co.uk/ninja-catalog/ninja-air-fryers/ https://www.argos.co.uk/search/air-fryers/?clickOrigin=searchbar:search:term:air+fryers

Costco and Argos do other brands with glass windows.

My wife wanted an Airfryer after our circular halogen oven broke down. We bought the Ninja AF300 and there are a few things that bother me now that we have used it for a few months. Previously we had a glass halogen oven and you could see how food was cooking and whether it needed to be turned or was ready. This is not possible with Ninjas and you have to keep checking by open the trays every 10 mins. Yes the food cooks faster but your also required to toss and shake your food around more frequently as it burns more quickly. I find cooking with the ninja requires me to be more around in the kitchen when cooking than before. Consider one with glass door. I wish we did. - Not so good for large portions as trays are smaller with smaller surface area to work with. Get the bigger model if you have the kitchen space. + trays are easy to clean + great for heating bakery products (2-3mins to restore that freshly baked condition) and cooking frozen products. + useful when cooking two separate items that require different temperatures or different cooking times.

Heard of about this book from a talk given by Sardar Inderjit Singh (Canada) who translated the original writings. Taajudins-Diary-Nanak-Makkah.pdf (sikhmissionarysociety.org)

Does Guru Sahib accept naam simran and Gurbani recitation without taking amrit? Please don't think in such a negative way and starting walking on the path and making effort to do naam simran, read gurbani etc if your heart desires. I have never heard of someone say that taking amrit is a prerequisite before you can do this and if such a person exists I would ignore them. I wouldn't use that as an excuse to not doing anything until such a time comes until you do wish to take Amrit. Whenever I go deep into this topic.. or after listening to various kathavachaks i start feeling negative.. Simple, listen to those pacharaks who inspire you and don't listen to those who don't. Bhagti should come for a desire for union with Waheguru not out of fear. Although fear is also useful in getting you thinking about making a start and is a good wake up call when your feeling lazy and unmotivated. Maybe even the fear created by the pacharaks is acting as a wake up call to you and making you aware you may have not started making any effort yet and guilt is kicking in. Isn't that the intended purpose? Everyone has different aspects of katha they enjoy. What works for one person may not work for others. So there is vast choice out there now days so take your pick. No one is asking you to listen to only one person. Read Gurbani yourself and take away what you can it. If done alongside bhagti you will feel the connection with your Guru even more and feel even more inspired and motivated. It's not a race to finish it in a certain time so take your time and read and try and absorb the message and use it to motivate and guide you. You will realise there is loads in there that is hardly ever touched upon in gurdwaras or day to day shabads you might hear. I found when undertook this exercise years ago, I copied the lines that touched and inspired me. I sometimes go back to my notes even today when I'm running low on motivation and being lazy. You will find it's hard to stay motivated all the time and the desires to make effort will come in waves. Blessed are those who have the feeling 24x7. Having regular sangat with like minded people definitely helps.

Answer to question that an abhiyasi can hear poan shabads.