Blue Knight

LOL yeh and? You think some kind of judge? Find out for yourself little man. Or of course you could ask beasty boy here. Lol

Amrit, was speaking to a singh who said he saw and said fateh to you at shaheedi bagh anandpur sahib, he asked me to forward his fateh on again and wondered if you ever did get to meet jagdeep/narsingha/teja/empty vessel (the type that make the most noise!). i guess not from your posts here. Please do ignore these hypocritical children from the uk, too much hunkar is no good as we all know, be that from martial arts training or learning santia from some babeh in punjab, doesnt give us the right to think/act like we know the way the world works!! I do hope the punjab singhs from all the different areas/groups were not too disgusted at the activities of the drunken/drugged warrriors from the uk. We must assure you that not all 'western' singhs behave like this! Good luck in your research, but please be careful, as these people get scared very quickly and might report your attempts for debate as intimidation! lol they might even think you are following them for other more sinister acts! I think you should reassure narsingha that you only wish to talk, poor lass is probably afraid of you brother! Anyway good luck to one and all, may vaheguru bring victory to the righteous!!

Do your research challenge, u seem a decent enough bloke, dnt get too involved wth these fools, they just take you into the dirt with them. Find out for yourselves. I cant be bothered to spell it all out. Goodluck Holmes!

I just hope you all remember the disgust you all showed at the apparent scuffle last year in the midlands at holla mahalla, where a few guys got pushed. I wonder if you will show the same disgust at this where the faujan (10-15 fully armed) attack a guy who was in his car getting ready to go home. Many of u know the people in that crowd personally, and that is why u will not speak out, i ask u to look back at ur prev comments on 'fanatics' and see if the same apply to these so called nihang singhs of yours! Forget it, make your own phone calls and find out for yourselves!

lol good to see that you KNOW all of a sudden! i thought it was all made up a minute ago! lol in that case you should also know WHO got beaten up despite being part of the group doing the attacking! Challeneg i use the words as people on this forum use them. In particular i am suprised by u, wheras at one time you were spewing fire at violence, now earlier you make a joke about people walking about with axes. sarcastic or not, it is hardly appropriate. Time for us all to bring out our mirrors. You are not a judge to call for evidence. Plenty has been said on both this site and others with no evidence, why do you assume that when you call for it it will be provided? You want proof, find the people involved and take a look at the injuries. Nobody is asking fo sympathy, especially off you, who are you to give anyone your sympathy!? Go back to dream land boyo, this is the real world! Adios people, i'll leave you to your little mysteries and conspiracy theories! As i said, the people who know, KNOW and the rest well lol no offence but you hardly matter in this instance, and would prob be best to keep out of it! things are nice an easy behind pc's as has been said on many a time, but as recent events have shown, the real world isnt quite so forgiving or easy going. laters! ps the true nihangs are the naam abyassi pyareh of guru maharajh, not just people who wear dumalleh! in the above instance it was goonde who attcked a nihang singh! vah guru ke nihang, even when attacked without warning they still come out on top and in chardi kala!

LOL Believe what you will. Those who need to know, KNOW. Why fabricate, when a blood stains testify to the truth! May Guru ji forgive these 'faujan' for their sins! and their friends for their hypocrisy! Guru ji sees all my friends, he sees and knows all! lol You sanatan children make me sick. had it been the so called fanatics accussed of such acts you would have gone mental with your outrage, but know that its your own, you simply deny or show pretence of not knowing the truth. LOL shame shame shame

Neo, im so saddened upon hearing about such things, that i dont even wish to get involved in any such discussion. Maharajh bless these fools with some brains!

So sad to see these things happening.

Doaba you are right that many sikhs do tend to focus on one thing over the other, which may lead us to becoming unbalanced as saint-soldiers. I think brother we still need to define what a warrior is, perhaps those gurmukhs amongst us can help us with what gurbani says in this respect. And lets remember Guru Granth Sahib ji as well as gurbani from Dasam Granth in this description. Who is a true warrior? What makes a true warrior? Rakash you are getting more towards what i am aseeking, you say a complete warrior has ethics etc. But which ethics, after all many of the greatest strongest people in history have also been mighty tyrants. I think the key word in your first reply was 'potentially'. Any set circumstances will not create a warrior. As i have said there are many who will have had that upbringing etc but still cannot be called warriors. Many such people will actually grow to be weak, unafraid to make their own decisions and will resort to their fists to solve problems. Again within our own history we have countless examples of how the mighty were made to bow and the weak were made masters. As a sikh considering the warrior spirit and warrior physical being we must consider the spiritual aspects of warriors. Regrading the gatka of niddar singh compared to the other style, are you suggesting that it is only with the emergence of this style that 'moneh' have started to keep their hair? Tell me brother what it was that has led to all of our others brothers keeping their kesh? Has not gatka as practiced by the other teachers led to youngsters keeping their kesh taking amrit etc? Have not keertan darbars, sangat, simran led to people keeping their kesh? I know you are not saying that his style is the only thing responsible for people yearning for sikhi, but i just thought it was an odd comment to make. Yes brother i am aware of the nihang bana and somewhat of the traditions, that is not what i am questioning. i am asking is this all that one needs to do in order to become a warrior? Does the blue dress and turban make a warrior? Please read the rest of the question in its original form also. Please refrain from personal statements, as far as i am aware i have not gone on about '84 84 84' at all. in fact i mentioned the incident in as nuetral a way as possible. We cannot deny that the armies did not mobilise during this period, the reasons as to why they chose not to, are i guess for a different discussion. i was merely making the point that simply 'looking' or calling yourself a warrior is not enough as was evidenced by recent events. The fact is that this period was a dark chapter in the glorious history of the khalsa armies. Of course the singhs did some magnificent things in the past and that history belongs to us all, not solely to people aligning themselves with the current nihang dals! In the same way, our lack of a well discilpined effective armed force is something we must all deal with. Again please point out where i have mentioned khalistan or the fight for it. If you carefully read my post you will see the slant is towards the spiritual fight, without which there can be no or little physical warfare. If you do care to mention the fighters for khalistan you will notice that initially the singhs had a very good grounding in gurbani and bhagti before any battles took place. Singhs like manvir singh chheroo and baba gurbachan singh manochahal are reknown for their love of gurbani and for the countless time they spent in simran. Forgive me if i am wrong, but again brother you miss the concept of guru ji in your answer. Yes you may accuse me of living in a dream world, but then that is true, this world is nothing but a dream isnt it! If a gurmukh ever encountered a situation where they needed to involve themselves in combat and they are a real gurmukh are we to believe that guru ji wouldnt help them? Yes guru ji helps those that helps themselves etc, but gurbani constantly tells us that Vaheguru protects his own saints! I cannot recall any gurbani saying that guru ji will protect he who does a bit of simran but trains really hard! Of course one could also argue that Vaheguru is the protector of all! but bakshish and kirpa are two amazing things which guru ji has for his beloved. The name Bhai Bachittar Singh Ji leaps to mind!! The cook defeats the mighty elephant while the mighty warrior runs from the fortress in shame his ego having been smashed by guru ji. But sorry we are loosing track of this discussion. Doaba i do not wish to attack anybody in this discussion, i am merely questioning the assumption or view that many youngsters seem to have developed. We as you rightly agree with are not a warrior people in our current state. We are fat, lazy, unhealthy, no spirituality, no faith, no true love for our sustainer. All a few of have are big mouths, others have big muscles while others have big egos! Whether we like it or not this is the state of our beloved dals. It is good to see rakash believe that he is trying to walk the warriors path. But brother you always 'seem' very tense, maybe its just something im reading from your posts, relax my friend, Vaheguru is in control of everything, everything happens according to his will! I would enjoy reading any responses from other gurmukhs, brothers and sisters. Guru ji asked us all to become saint sipai, so this is something which we should consider.. what is this sant and what is this sipai? Thank you guys.

I apologise one more point, singh ji mentioned the marines in his post. Please show me the similarities in what the marines, seals, etc have with our 'armies' of today. i see very little that is good in comparison. yes 99.9% need not bother to join the marines as they will weed out the weak and soft and dispose of them, they want only the strongest physically and mentally. the provide the best warrior training available. Skill in all types of practical weaponary, experts in killing quickly, with stealth accuracy and impact. They are true warriors if we are looking at the martial aspect alone. We have nothing to compare with them , if we are saying that the nihang singhs and the dals are our version, then lets change that to , 99.9% may apply as once your in, we wont train you, theres no prescribed discipline as such (reference to jagdeep/narsingha and the way rehat can change, be changed, etc to suit an individuals needs), etc etc. A very sad state of affairs my brothers and sisters.

Sangat Ji having viewed with some interest the developments in the last few months in the UK scene, there is a question which springs to mind. It begins by observing the changing attitudes of the younger singhs. With the introduction of niddar and his gatka style, there seems to have occurred a shift in mentality where these youngsters either, wish to become or, believe they are either nihang singhs or warriors. For some reason which perhaps you could explain to me, there seems to be an understanding as evidenced by various discussions that nihang singhs are the only true warriors. And it is the ablity to weild a sword or a stick or to hit somebody with your kara that makes a warrior. Continuing other features of a warrior are blue turbans, curly moustaches, bad attitudes, swearing, intimidation, wearing of blue bana, wearing of various weapons etc etc. These it seems are what people are associating with a warrior. Of course they also will belive that a warrior is unafraid of death, and worships weapons etc I am aware of this, however, will wearing the gear and acting the part and even taking amrit from a certain place make one a warrior? Can you as some have suggested be born a warrior? Or .. Is it something else? Some even distingusih rightly or wrongly between what they deem to be warriors and what they deem to be 'sants'. Perhaps a definition of the two terms is neccesary as how do you draw a line between the two? Is a khalsa not meant to be both a saint/sant and a soldier/warrior? If one adopts a white chola as oppossed to a blue one does that mean they are no longer a warrior? Who is the warriors preparing for war against? Which war are they readying themselves for? If we are to take the stance that only those dressed in blue with big swords are warriors, then whether we like it or not, we must admit that they do not seem to do much fighting. Example being while sikhs were being massacred across the country there was very little in the sense of our warriors protecting the people. (This statement applies for both types of people, those who belive that the govt was the oppresor, and those who believe the kharkoo singhs were the oppressors). When the moment arose, nothing happened. Of course some people did take part but not the 'armies' as we like to think. In the recent update by jagdeep, the only real involvement according to him was by mr ajit phoola, who even jagdeep admits used the police, narcotics, alochol etc to persecute the people. Is this our example of a warrior? I pray not! So, if the war on the battlefield is not to be fought, then which war are the warriors preparing for? These 'sants' or non warrior sikhs could be assumed to be fighting the REAL war, constantly. This being the spiritual war, this being the difficult war which is fought second by second, something will take you a lifetime, not a short affair in which one brave action is all it takes to finish your life in splendour. The spiritual war requires brave actions day by day, to ditch the hunkar, to control your eyes upon gazing upon others, to close your ears to the world and listen only to VAHEGURU… this I believe is the real war, and these are the real warriors. Of course, the warriors on the battlefield are needed also, but I believe that without this internal war, that person stepping onto the battlefield is not a 'true warrior'. I would appreciate I sangat could list the characteristics of a true warrior. And then let us compare them with those within ourselves, those in the 'warriors' around us and those of a gursikh? Is a warrior different from a gursikh? If a warrior must shun ego, then can a warrior br proud to be so egotisticsal? Be proud of his ego? Is a warrior not also a gursikh? And please no talk of black and white boxes or shades of grey. It is very distressing to see that whilst we as sikhs claim to be warriors elite, we are no different from anyone else. We suffer the same 5 chor and the same dilemas, in fact we cannot even take pride in our training and skills. We are unfortunetly warriors just in name, not in spirit or in form.

Intresting post rakash friend. What would you say regarding guru ji's kirpa? Can Guru ji not bless someone with warrior spirit? Can guru ji not bless a warrior with peace and contentment and give him a desire to leave battle and war and adopt a family life? can the jackals not kill the lions? can the little birds not hunt the hawks? There have been countless people throughout the worlds history who were not 'born warriors', and yet when it counted they stood and fought to their last breaths. equally there have been countless others, inculding in our own history who were 'born warriors' who looked the part, acted the part but when the battle begins they run away. You can think or assume that you 'swing' whichever way you like, but without guru ji's hukum and kirpa you wont be/do anything. It is he that makes the warrior he that makes the saint and he that changes them when as where neccesary. he can just as easily make you loose all your courage and just as easily give it all to a former coward, all works within his kirpa!

nope just trying to have a normal conversation which is something you guys seem incapable of doing! Narsingha you are a hypocrite my friend, you accuse others of not being able to hold debate/conversation etc, yet when I try here, you resort to avoiding the questions and lame attacks. Again artist please shut up, you really do need a muzzle to stop your little whimpering. Narsingha either answer the questions or just say that you don’t know. Beast I appreciate your attempts, but a clear answer would be appreciated. That one given prev seems a bit 'wishy wasshy'!

LOL, now thats a funny thing to start your reply with, especially on a topic such as this! Narsingha, are you saying that budha dal etc turns its back on homosexuality and pretends it doesnt happen, or are you saying they accept it amongst their ranks? Do you get openly homosexual nihangs? Would one such be accepted in the dal? Would he be given responsibilty etc? Vedanti made his statement as of late, do u believe the budha dal would agree, or as u make it seem do they think its acceptable? Beast thats just an example, thats why im asking the question, cus i dnt know. ps narsingha pls keep to the topic rather than moan about peoples riots etc. its like playing the same old record. does get rather boring after a while. yes we understand the nihangs are a persecuted people. ok good now move on.

No beast, i am afraid that by highlighting ONE word you cannot infer anything. And artist..... etc.... again grow up little boy. Its like talking to a 10 year old. I have doubts over these claims of assult in both nihang, mehta, sants dera's etc. There seem to be plenty of rumours but no proof. Perhaps this is some more research teja can do. I have heard the rumours too, and yes every case is absolutely dreadful, but i wonder if the scale at which it is being suggested is scare-mongering? As previously mentioned it is also a tactic of people (many who oppose sants of any kind) to say that these sants abuse kids etc just to blacken their name. Im not saying it never happens, just tryng to establish the degree of the problem. If it is as bad as people are making it out, then perhaps different people (again as prev mentioned) should be sent in to invesitgate the budha dal and metha. It is with this doubt that i gave a scenario which, like you said, could be crazely twisted into something which it is not. i agree that since it appears we are not mature enough to tackle such adult topics with some grace and conduct they should be left alone. But i will repeat these crimes are not a joke, and it would appear that gupt kaur is messing about. But, if as according to the web, there are some serious allegations along with proof, they should be followed. Any updates on this would be much appreciated teja webmaster. Beyond this, if people did want to seriously discuss homosexuality amongst the warrior tradition, if done sensibly that would be better than the discussion that this thread has led to. As far as i know/have read homosexuality was encouraged amongst the Spartans, who were said to be the most close knit and discliplined unit of soldiers in their day. Homosexuality between the fighters was said to be an aid in building that unit. Perhaps the historians can reveal wether this was something adopted in the asian subcontinent, and whether homosexuality amongst the nihangs was/is frowned upon or seen as a krehat etc? Is homosexuality amongst a large group of armed, testerone filled warriors e.g. nihang dals, inevitable or a sign of kaljug etc?

Harpreet good move, I am also reporting the same for Artist, Doaba and Narsingha who all seem to know of what can only be described as 'serial' peadophiles operating internationally. I think you should also provide them the name of niddar singh since again these claims are made on his website. After all if we can help a few kids what better. Personally what i think happened is that niddar was probably holding the boys (assume its a boy's) testicles in some sort of manuover and the kid thought 'whats going on here'. Perhaps the same guy was used in a series of examples etc and he thought something was wrong. This is just one example of what it may have been.

thats what im asking you say these things bt wheres the proof? its hardly funny artist, im sure u wouldnt find it funny if you or someone from your family or friends was raped or abused. so grow up. are these rumours or clarifid? i think it was guv who said people are using this stuff to get one over on each other politically. disgusting guys, u really need to grow up.

wow, do you read all ur bani via larivar form as well? I didnt think you get get gutke sahibs like that? or u just making gerneral statement? What i mean is, is there different ways of reading dasam granth, cus i heard there was some slight differences in the different granths.

guys hope you can help me with, is there one form of sri dasam granth that is seen as the 'best' form, i mean in terms of the way the bani is included. eg when guru granth sahib ji was larivaar there was some trouble/discussion about splitting the bani, was dasam granth larivaar too? and has there been similar dificulties?

Hey has anyone actually got proof that nihang are gay at the dals? or that homosexuality exists there? Or are people just saying these things? I mean have you people seen them or got proof? seem's a bit weird that nihang singh warriors would be gay. unless they are like the spartans!?

I been told that Mahakal Akali Nihang Singh Baba Raam Singh Ji Nihang Farladhari was the highest ranking nihnag singh in the uk? If you want amrit from nihang singh go to akali nihang baba raam singh ji mahakaal. Not sure what niddar singh is to akali singh sahib? is niddar like the sub-jathedhar?