ringdingding

is there a lack of langar in punjab??

must be a lack of kirpa?

make chips and tarkhe vale beans / pizza and the kids will come flocking in (and some over 18s like me)

you make a start then, if it is good others may follow your lead

can you define nindia chugli gossip a bit please?

Let us take Guru Nanak Dev Ji as an example: -did he remain silent in his life - keeping his knowledge to himself? -or did he travel 1000s of miles dispensing his wisdom to people of all different religions, different cultures and different countries? (bit like some christian missionaries do) we all know the answer: Guru Sahib did not sit at home waiting for for his shagird to mystically appear at his house. In fact, he travelled 1000s of miles by foot to give people the opportunity to gain wisdom from him! Should we today keep secret these same beautiful teachings ?

If only someone had found out a bit earlier?

Some important concepts to be noted here in any serious research. when you understand this then you will realise that its not straight forward enough to simply ask: "Does anyone know what Indian was called back in the days?"

nice one! are other regions like midlands doing similar events?

have the latter 5 Gurus (6th -10th) got Sahib because of their temporal power, which was stressed by Guru Har Gobind Sahib with miri piri?

Anyone who wishes to impose strict vegetarian code on all sikhs, please answer this point first. Would the mahapursh have ignored this going on in the Gurdwara complex if they thought it was totally wrong? were they too scared to say anything? or were they not real mahapursh?

do you have such a judgemental atittude towards all people who play 'entertaining' tunes? It is a big thing to claim someone has no love for God. Do you think it is impossible for an individual to have love for God while playing a tune that someone else may perceive to be entertaining? . . . or is it a judgemental bias you reserve only for akj ?

loveless tunes? do you mean they have no love while using these tunes. Is there an exact science to measuring how much 'love' there is in a tune? or would you say it's a personal experience?

. . . and what a joke us diaspora , especially British Sikhs are for not managing to protest strongly enough to stop this, if he is being setup. Were there any coordinated efforts of lobbying and protests? What did Gurdwaras do ? I dont know this guy, or if he's genuine, or what happened, but I do know that this story is perfectly plausible, the way things are in India and it could happen in the future again - if there is a brave soul who is willing to stand up for us, that is: By not doing anything, we not only allow a justice seeker of ours to get tortured and improsoned, but we will also end up with a situation where, on seeing that there is so much risk in defending sikhs and that none of your sikh brothers will care about you anyway if you end up being setup, no sikh will then ever bother to stand up for the justice of others. If all our gurdwaray had been told to give just 15 minutes on a Sunday morning programme and make their sangats aware and guide them on how to act, over 100,000 sikhs could have very quickly been made aware and involved in some action. We've got the base and network ie. Gurdwaray and Sunday sangats. We could have a powerful effect if the will, organisation and coordination was there. Although a lot is done in some, I still think we greatly under-use the potential that our Great Gurdwara system could offer us.

Yes nearly all historic records are biased. Agreed, god knows the exact truth of what happened 2000 years ago, I dont, I wasnt there. Anyway, what do you think about my point that our organisations are infiltrated by brahmin agents intent on bringing about confusion in the Panth?

It must be remembered that it is claimed by historians that Brahmins destroyed Buddhism (which was a 'super power' at that time) by infiltrating it and causing differences of opinion, creating factions and different sects, which would then go on to quarell with each other, helping to destroy the relgion from within. (mughals were also instigated by the brahmins to fight them - in the same way as they were instigated to finish off the sikhs) see http://abheek-athavale.sulekha.com/blog/po...tions-part2.htm It seems that this is probably true, as I can see they are doing EXACTLY the same thing to sikhi - Our religion is infiltrated (at the top) in nearly every organisation/jatha/samprada - even the Akal Takht, where Jathedars can be sacked and replaced at the request of non-sikh politicians . Different sikh groups can be seen vehemently fighting each other due to some particular difference of opinion which they seem to hold as so important, that its as though they fanatically worship it - forgetting everything else! to sum it up, it can make perfect sense why 2 groups can both accuse each other of being part of 'RSS', if they have indeed both been infiltrated by 'RSS' with the aim of installing slightly differing ideologues to confuse the followers into conflict. Divide and Rule

good for such a short summary.

It is sad to see (relatively) innocent ones die when it is usually unscathed sly individuals in the background instigating gullible mob-like hotheads to do this dirty work. Regarding the ethnic cleansing issue : If we look at the percentage of population belonging to various religions in each country, it stands out that nearly every muslim majority country is like 99% or 100% muslim. Why?

check this out then: just saw this goree singhnee on youtube today- she's better than any Punjaban I've seen . . .

1. sikhs were not massacred by 'delhi' - they were massacred by Government organised 'mobs' 2 . I'm pretty sure that the innocent people who died in these bomb attacks had nothing to do with the sikh massacres in 1984 - in the same way that the innocent sikhs of delhi didn't deserve 'pay back' for something that was nothing to do with them i.e. Indra Gandhi's murder 3. Your foolish comments may be harmful for other sikhs ! - as we have already seen above: certain people would have the ability to take offence from your comments and take out their resultant anger on other innocents from your community who had nothing to do with your views.

he did a lot for the government and in the end even made the ultimate sacrifice of giving shaheedi while fighting their cause .

Many sikhs still have a great - fearless mindset. Perhaps more importantly sikhs didnt advance technologically - I notice they are still over-obsessed with the weapons of 400 years ago . In this day and age, its quite hard to physically fight an enemy without having a country / state support (without which it is almost impossible to buy advanced weapons of choice).

Sorry I'm not an expert on these licences that nihangs feel the need to get in order to carry axes and spears etc. . . . and I haven't got a clue about the other stuff you've written about (seriously) I was simply trying to get across the point that (in my opinion) the western sikh youth (esp) seem not to be in touch with reality when it comes to how powerful (or not) Nihangs actually are. Sadly, Bahadur's post seems closer to reality as it is right now : Getting a free ride on trains and buses and having a license to carry spears should not be such a major source of pride IMHO - were talking about our Khalsa army here! Would Guru Gobind Singh be proud of Buddha Dal's capabilities today compared to other armies? . . . or am I missing the point ?

It mainly benefits Brahmins for the Dalits to split themselves into many groups affiliated to different Deras, and then to create friction between them and mainstream Sikhs is the icing on the cake. (see website for full article) http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/august200... ... Principal enemy That Sikhism itself has suffered steady deterioration became clear in the long DV Debate on "Slow death of Sikhism".(DV Edit Nov.1, 1998: "Slow death of a brave community: BSO using internal enemies to destroy Sikh identity"). The Ballan saints are well aware of this and are proceeding carefully. They want to maintain close and cordial relationship with Jat Sikhs, the SGPC and the Sikh religious authorities. The Brahminical forces have been trying to sabotage the revolutionary Sikhism both from inside and outside. Nobody can forget the bloodbath which the Brahminical forces engineered in 1984 in the name of "Blue Star Operation". Brahminism never tolerates any challenge to its authority. It goes on instigating Dalits against Sikhs and vice-versa. This is a centuries-old game. But those of us who have identified Brahminism as our principal enemy cannot support Dalit criticism of Sikhs as it will only help Brahminism. To win over such forces operating on both sides of the divide, it was decided at the recent Shimla Dalit Voice workshop to call a meeting of honest Sikh and Dalit intellectuals at Chandigarh to resolve the differences. In this we will seek the support of Jat Sikh intellectuals, Ballan saints, Dalit intellectuals and all those interested in saving Sikhism from the jaws of Brahminism