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ISDhillon

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Everything posted by ISDhillon

  1. how? when someone makes a stand for their principles against injustice the society evolves with time, it does not make sense that the khalsa is a supreme power, it is about virtuos people who stand up for righteousness, the united states has many weapons but from their wars vietnam is still communist, north korea has nuke, and iraq is a mess, what is the the value of nuclear weapons? rehatnama is not about practical morality at all morality has always been an individual effort in sikhism, rehat is about the most effective form of self-discipline to aid your self-realisation. Staus of women etc is a panthic issue if patriarchy sneeks in then we need to counter this again through gurupanth ie, the ISC. or possibly to hold your hair, these issues you have raised are irrelevant to this discussion because its all your personal opinion you have a strange definition of relevance. c. I don't necessarily agree with all of that, but the point is that if you hold to that criticism, you must put your own house in order first.
  2. Islam has a problem in that it does not account for the reality of the times it is not adaptable to all walks of life and also their is something in islam that fails to deal with atrocities by its own subject against non-muslims.
  3. This is the genderal response you get from cut and paste scholars who have formed their arguments from everything theyve taken from internet sources, once all the objections have been answered to completion their is nothing left on the internet to argue from, i suggest you go back to the madraasa and teach your qazi sikhism as we have taught you. I have these similar discussions in lenght on the the islamic board website i was eventually banned because they couldnt counterargue my claims and then they deleted my posts and started levelling the same accusations, you then wonder why muslims argue that they are being attacked well what else can u do wiv such people when talking obviously fails. Indster
  4. http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-re...sikhism-31.html Well folks after being banned 4 times, the debate continues to rage on in total ignorance of the last 20 or so pages where all their questions were answered, so what went wrong? well more sikhs came on the forum and we all contradicted one another and so the muslims exploited this and were back to square one, confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really get angry reading what these people are writing about sikhism I wish I knew who they were and where they lived I would love to terrorise these egotistical mussalmaan they get on my nerves BIGTIME, now they have released a stupid cartoon called "muhammed the last prophet" they are spreading lies to the world that theres is the last religion how can people deny reality soooo badly, do you think if you were born in a muslim family you would pretend sikhism never happened just to make you feel better about being a muslim? tut tut tut ps if any of you are participants on that site let me make it very clear that the member known as mohnsin has asked and has had answered all the questions he keeps asking you guys, his ego refuses to accept those answers so he changes them slightly and asks them again, his arguments are not only applicable to sikhism but to judaism christianity and most other religions but in his ignorance he feels that islam is exempt from such scrutiny. Koran is not the word of god and this must be challenged stop softening the blow by saying we believe that islam is a path to god, sufism is the part which our gurus reverred and saw progress in terms of islam not the islam practiced today.
  5. you dont seem to get it you are using this whole story about the gold to counterargue my claim that bhindranwale was one of few men who have stood by their word, i couldn't care less about twisting anything its of no use to me, snap out of it. whith a little grace and a little self-determination self-realisation or mukti or whatever you want to call it will shine on you. basically america in the east, youre not very original are you just a follower not a leader. youre taking me on a world cruise far from what this discussion is/was about you called the militants baddies I am saying they were originally good now you start a discussion about your views on khalistan which is irrelevant. I prsonally think poverty is more important than khalistan but thats another story however in the same breath i think bhindranwale was right also. get stuffed! you dont know me you are guilty of plenty of antigurmat stuff by labelling me this person, why are you so paranoid why dont you go for counselling i am not this person you have prtrayed me to be. then i suggest you start listening to what they have to say and get a good pair of glasses.
  6. actually it isn't we focus our mind on gurshabad we dont formulate rule from scripture, we sing kirtan so others can listen and also be attuned to god I think you should do some extra reading, I never said god was a tool bani is the touchstone of self-realisation it is not a book worshipping god our religion is neither vedantic or abramanic but it shares similarities with both, if anything these traditions are a part of sikhism wheras as sikhism is not a part of those traditions. not so please read above, just saying so does not make your argument more valid. now your being pedantic by getting me on a language technicality, words are just noises javanmard understand this and you will be a lot wiser. no let me understand yours I am the one who has made a mistake I actually thought you understood the way the universe worked let see:
  7. no it isnt, lighting candles and burning incense in front of statues is a form of worship, singing dharmic geet is a form of worship, we "use" god to awaken our soul, bani recognises an intimacy and primacy with mans spirit you remarks are off tangent. My statement has nothing to do with quam or the punjabiat, when you take amrit you are elevated from restrictive qualities that humanity gives to children the day they are born, the law is also one of these restrictions, in sikhism the idea of creating sovereign people was khalsa the idea that all humans are self-governing people the guru did not believe in man-made governments and laws he taught us that our enlightened faculties were enuff to judge right from wrong. "sovereignity is a vehicle for self-realisation" - this is the key to understanding the twin doctrine of guru granth and guru panth, again i will reiterate that when you have the corporate body politic of the khalsa it is ok to call that body sarbat khalsa or a nation. Your idea of the "neo-sikh" is incompatible with sikh doctrine continuity and change go hand in hand that is why the rehat maryada can be changed to reflect the prevaling circumstances of the time if we lived by chibbars rehat today we would would all get arrested as soon as we encountered a muslim.
  8. you still havnt responded to my post its under the propaganda one happy reading
  9. yeah you go with that, your on to a good thing their dont let the door hit your big ego on the way out lol
  10. this makes me laugh I have seen this sort of debating technique on the islamic board website aswell, let me try it: "Converting holy sites into military functionalities is and has always been NOT considered an offense" i can merely say the opposite, it certainly is not offensive to me, in fact the sites of wars such as chamkaur sahib have been converted into gurdwara or holy sites, when the guru existed in the physical form he was stationed at anandpur and armies laid seige to the fort the guru was holy then also yet no-one considered his presence in a place which could turn nasty to be offensive, my guru can stand in the midst of the battle field and still be holy whether in book or physical form. Akal takht is not a gurdwara it is one of the 5 seats of temporal authority it has never been a gurdwara. Where you get the idea that gurdwara can be pigeonholed into the same defintion as other places of worship, gurdwara is not a place of worship it is where guru lives, guru gives guidance from gurdwara we dont worship god we meditate on gods name. international law or civillian law has no meaning for sovereign people our god gaves the peoplehood of khalsa sovereignity he made us self-governing so international law can kiss my ass. No offence brother. one of my favourites let me try it: "It wasn't, isn't and never will always be unacceptable to do that" indiqan government are guests on our holy sites they have no jurisdiction on the land where their is gurdwara, bhindranwale has gone down in history as the man who picked a fight with indian government and won this is said by those who despised him aswell so I agree you can have your own opion but the conclusion is the same rarely in the 20th century will you find a person who did exactly what they said. now your just getting desperate. Have a nice day amigos
  11. Just cos no-one in history has never converted harmandar into a fortress before doesnt mean we cant, change is great we should embrace change, however whilst i agree with the activities of Sant Ji i also know that their were many atrocities carried out by supporters who perhaps in their own way became radical, I dont believe the people who died in 1984 were radical, the radical years followed later on , but governement was also sponsoring this radicalism but it would be wrong to not take some of the blame, anyone who says sant should not have fought from inside harmandar is a slave to only doing what has be done before and they are unable to embrace change. Thanks. 8)
  12. I find him quite arrogant, I was listening to his interview and he really thinks that punjabi rap is the future and he's the chosen one to lead us into this new genre, I disagree rap music raises a generation of "the whole world is against me" youth to the the point where self-pity becomes an obsession. Just my personal opion.
  13. amardeep i think i have been banned from that site cos i cant get in, it comes up with suspended is it the same for you?
  14. I think your right amareeep ji sometimes i think my ego wont let go and i want to have the last word all the time. ISDhillon
  15. I just added something aswell I dont think its worth taking it too seriously cos from what I have seen the site is only for propagation of islam so its not really interested in whether we refute the allegations or not cos as soon as we do theyll find some more. Anyway good for you dont give up!!!
  16. I just read your reply it was very good, but did you notice that you said you were a brother in islam (on your profile) i dont know whther that was a mistake or you did this deliberately and also your avatar is islamic? I am not bothered if you are a muslim just didnt understand why you filled in the profile that way? ISDhillon
  17. I tried my best to answer all their questions but after a while no one responded back I dont think it cos they believed me I think they just want to work on those who are vulnerable and the tough ones they just ignore I regularly check back but I dont think they'll bother now: http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-re...?highlight=sikh ISDhillon
  18. Well folks I responded to the site here is the 2 links: http://groups.msn.com/OXFORDISLAM/general....;ID_Message=404 http://groups.msn.com/OXFORDISLAM/general....;ID_Message=405 But no one has bothered to respond to me. Bhul chuk maaf if I have written anything wrong in me responses. ISDhillon
  19. Sorry Vijaydeep Singh Ji, 8) I think you have misuderstood me I read and listen to gurbani aswell and I have not found any shred of evidence which supports your claim that this dera is occult, I have been to rara shaib aswell and many others and these are all beside the point I actually understand the reason bedhind dera so I do not need to do any reasearch those who have OPINION do need to do some research. And also I find your response very hard to follow their are alot of spelling punctuation and grammar mistakes and it is going to take to long to unravel this. Sorry we will have to agree to disagree. ISDhillon
  20. Satsriakal Vijaydeep Singh Ji “Das opposed picture or idol or dead based upon what is Told in Dasham Granth and Sarbolh Granth.†Yes im opposed to it aswell whats your point who is idol worshipping I have been their 3 times never seen it myself. “Yuo can get status of Baba Vadhbhag Singh by Namabhays†that’s great but we aint discussing that are we you then supply a verse from sggs but don’t realise that a person who is possessed hates bani and is the last thing they want to read so your method does not work. “It tells that occult does not leads us to salvation.†that’s great but we aint discussing that, and who is occultist? Babaji? You should be thanking babaji that such a dera exists otherwise the ghosts in you would be pretending to everyone that they are ok when really the other soul is oppressed. “If you want to come on our side then das can help you†sorry but I am only on the side of Sikhism not orthodoxy but I respect your right to be orthodox on yourself as long as you don’t infringe it on others, thanks. Sarab rog ka aukhad naam… in my interpretation power of such naam is at dera and its kamai liberates the ghosts so it is all ok Btw you know what giani has been up to look what the great gursikh says about me on tapoban: “and what makes it worse is that this sham fake "singh" is doing all this propoganda and still claiming he beleives in Khalsa and rehat..only at a much "deeper level" than all of us poor souls who are so "shallow"..and he claims he is in England !!! ( he must be in King Arthur's England ..at least mentally if not bodily).†This fake giani needs to go to dera and get his ghosts exorcised I will enjoy smacking a chimta over his head. :evil: Have a nice day ISDhillon
  21. Opinions Opinions Opinions Galore, No proof No evidence, No historical claims No nothing Just a pack of opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :x
  22. “bowing to pics, tombs(samadh).†There is no samadh you have made that up babaji antam sanskar is on a total different side of the mountain, as for bowing to pictures there is nothing wrong with that I use a photo of babaji sometimes just as a souce of warmth but I know the picture means nothing and I believe when I do bow to a picture all my faculties are intact when I do it, plus this is not a Brahmin place or muslim place so does not defy maryada have a look: “veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances (Most, though not all, rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continues to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to new faith and a large bulk of the Sikhs novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus' secular and religious life which the Brahmin priests managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by the his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates included a sizeable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni etc.) Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru's place- such, for instance, as sacred sports or places of pilgrimage of other faiths. Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri,(Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun) the Gita, the Quaran, the Bible, etc. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.†“Sri Guru Gobind Singh not only spoke against bowing to tombs, pics in Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib but mocked them as well if you read the scriptures carefully.†I don’t disagree with this statement in fact I interpret his words to mean that with time such practices of devotion lead to ritualism and no one has the devotion anymore but just follow blindly what the others are doing, he did not say you are anti gurmat if you bow to a picture but because some other people have interpreted that way after several generations we too have become ritualised but along linguistic level of interpretation, so like I said before there is method in the madness if you would like an eg, people who get married when possessed have to do reverse lavans aroung SGGS and then they carry out a pretend procession with a band and lots of mitaai for sagan etc that way the thing then gets unmarried from the host body, only if you ask questions and engage in dialogue are you going to understand but a blanket opposition, well you might aswell shoot yourself in the foot because it will not resolve anything. “Sikh Of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar is only upasakh of shabad guru not any tomb, pics. Having murshid /guidance in Sikh Dharam is quite alright but bowing down his tomb or pics is not *Gurmat* because we are told to rise our brithi over body(deh) and knot it with shabad Jot Guru. †I don’t know why you use word nirankar but I agree to first line about shabad but unfortunately my mum could not sit in the gurdwara without swearing cos she hated bani so your method did not work for those who are possessed in my opinion, I do not agree with second line a sikh has unbroken lineage with god and only needs gurshabad for salvation with the use of his/her mental faculties which is impossible if your possessed. I don’t need murshid only satsang cos we are all equal but I respect your right to have a mushid as an individual and i will not label you manmat. You then say will babaji not think badly of the dera my answer is no cos his hava and narsingh hava are still there cos they go into people who are possessed and shake them violently and no one can just do it or fake it even scientist cant explain shakti but its ok if you are sceptic, and don’t ask me to accept it as manmat I don’t agree with you fullstop and I have no disrespect for you either I am not a begger asking for your permission it is already gods hukum and mortals can change nothing. Its very fashionable to say manmukh and manmat today sort of like kaffir what does that say about our growing trend of intolerance, i have been to loads of deras radhasoami, naamdhari and plenty more cant think of them all cos theres so many i must be a megamanmukh. :cry: even though i still only believe in the guru granth and guru panth i guess i will still be labelled by the gurmukhs amongst you, thats ok i can live with that. :!: be detached inside yourself and you will not be stained by anything :idea: Now can sikhism accept Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji as an entity well within the divine scheme and hukum of akal purakh? Sorry if I have offended, Isdhillon
  23. Dear Amrit you said: "It is up to you to prove that your views are according to Sikhism." my response: Actually I do not have to proove anything I added this video to clear up misconceptions people keep saying its manmat etc but do not proove these statements, the reason being that its easier to be orthodox against something you do not understand rather than try and engage with the difference to understand its existence, all forums so far have said that we should ask sikhs to boycott this dera but the premise for this boycott is a letter written by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, and as far as I am concerned this is not good enough I personally do not believe in the writings of this individual and also have no disrespect for him if people want to believe in the writings of suvh a person thats fine but the cheek of memebers of AKJ say that we should not believe in this baba because he is the cause of manmat yet I see AKJ is exactly the same thing, draw your conclusions from history and gurbani, and when you do you will realise that the der a has a perfectly fine place those who wish to can and those who the you dont have to but dont give dictates to others cos it will backfire like I said before I will not be dictated to by a revivalist movement if your bhagti was working for you you wouldny engage in orthodoxy you would remain unblemished in the midst of them. So I put it to you amrit ji and all others how is this dera manmat? Thanks Indy 8)
  24. What is your proof that it is against gurmat you have to be able to defend your beliefs if you are to be taken seriously on this forum, a personal opinion is devoid of any qualification and all sikhs in India go to this dera so what gurmat are yio preaching? Where in the maryada are your personal opinion portrayed if you are just using a letter to support your claims you can rest assured it will not be taken with a pich of salt! RSVPASAP ISDhillon
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