amardeep

From Chandi Charitar. Beautiful!!
 
 

From Chandi Charitar. Beautiful!!
 
 

From Chandi Charitar. Beautiful!!
 
 

From Chandi Charitar. Beautiful!!
 
 

From Chandi Charitar. Beautiful!!
 
 

From the same blog:
 
Nichal Dās (1791-1863), author of Vichar Sagar,  was a very prominent Vedāntist scholar. His work was written in Brij Bhāshā, and quickly became apart of the curriculum amongst the traditional scholarly lineage schools, the Udasi's and Nirmala's. The main point of the book was to expound upon the philosophy of Advāitā Vedāntā, the non-dualistic approach in the Vedas. The same philosophy underpins Gurmat, hence the start of every scripture begins with ੴ. The passage above is the 'Manglācharan', the beginning passage in salutation to their focus of worship, in Vichār Sāgar. Traditionally in Sikh literature, one would find Manglācharan's to ੴ, to Devi Ma Shakti, Nanak-Gūrū Gōbind Singh, and occasionally Ganesh. However this concept of recognizing, and using the Mantra of ਸੋਹੰ [I am That], That being the Infinite Ultimate Consciousness, is present in Gurmat.

From the same blog:
 
Nichal Dās (1791-1863), author of Vichar Sagar,  was a very prominent Vedāntist scholar. His work was written in Brij Bhāshā, and quickly became apart of the curriculum amongst the traditional scholarly lineage schools, the Udasi's and Nirmala's. The main point of the book was to expound upon the philosophy of Advāitā Vedāntā, the non-dualistic approach in the Vedas. The same philosophy underpins Gurmat, hence the start of every scripture begins with ੴ. The passage above is the 'Manglācharan', the beginning passage in salutation to their focus of worship, in Vichār Sāgar. Traditionally in Sikh literature, one would find Manglācharan's to ੴ, to Devi Ma Shakti, Nanak-Gūrū Gōbind Singh, and occasionally Ganesh. However this concept of recognizing, and using the Mantra of ਸੋਹੰ [I am That], That being the Infinite Ultimate Consciousness, is present in Gurmat.

From the same blog:
 
Nichal Dās (1791-1863), author of Vichar Sagar,  was a very prominent Vedāntist scholar. His work was written in Brij Bhāshā, and quickly became apart of the curriculum amongst the traditional scholarly lineage schools, the Udasi's and Nirmala's. The main point of the book was to expound upon the philosophy of Advāitā Vedāntā, the non-dualistic approach in the Vedas. The same philosophy underpins Gurmat, hence the start of every scripture begins with ੴ. The passage above is the 'Manglācharan', the beginning passage in salutation to their focus of worship, in Vichār Sāgar. Traditionally in Sikh literature, one would find Manglācharan's to ੴ, to Devi Ma Shakti, Nanak-Gūrū Gōbind Singh, and occasionally Ganesh. However this concept of recognizing, and using the Mantra of ਸੋਹੰ [I am That], That being the Infinite Ultimate Consciousness, is present in Gurmat.

New interesting post on the Manglacharan blog:
 
Varied Spiritual Approaches in Gurmat - Vichār Sāgar
As mentioned previously on this site, Vichār Sāgar is a very important text in the curriculum of Udāsi, Nirmalā, Taksāl groups. This passage explains the different approaches toward spiritual practices. From one perspective there is a hierarchy leaning towards formless devotion/meditation [ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਉਪਾਸਨਾ] but this does not lessen the importance of other approaches, as they are also paths toward enlightenment [ਮੁਕਤੀ]. It should be noted that the multiple approaches are not seen as mutually exclusive from one another. Similar passages are found in Gūrū Gōbind Singh Ji's, Gōbind Gitā, and Bhāi Mani Singh Ji's, Sikhan Dian Bhagat Mālā. 
— Vichar Sagar, sixth tarang, verse 169

New interesting post on the Manglacharan blog:
 
Varied Spiritual Approaches in Gurmat - Vichār Sāgar
As mentioned previously on this site, Vichār Sāgar is a very important text in the curriculum of Udāsi, Nirmalā, Taksāl groups. This passage explains the different approaches toward spiritual practices. From one perspective there is a hierarchy leaning towards formless devotion/meditation [ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਉਪਾਸਨਾ] but this does not lessen the importance of other approaches, as they are also paths toward enlightenment [ਮੁਕਤੀ]. It should be noted that the multiple approaches are not seen as mutually exclusive from one another. Similar passages are found in Gūrū Gōbind Singh Ji's, Gōbind Gitā, and Bhāi Mani Singh Ji's, Sikhan Dian Bhagat Mālā. 
— Vichar Sagar, sixth tarang, verse 169

New interesting post on the Manglacharan blog:
 
Varied Spiritual Approaches in Gurmat - Vichār Sāgar
As mentioned previously on this site, Vichār Sāgar is a very important text in the curriculum of Udāsi, Nirmalā, Taksāl groups. This passage explains the different approaches toward spiritual practices. From one perspective there is a hierarchy leaning towards formless devotion/meditation [ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਉਪਾਸਨਾ] but this does not lessen the importance of other approaches, as they are also paths toward enlightenment [ਮੁਕਤੀ]. It should be noted that the multiple approaches are not seen as mutually exclusive from one another. Similar passages are found in Gūrū Gōbind Singh Ji's, Gōbind Gitā, and Bhāi Mani Singh Ji's, Sikhan Dian Bhagat Mālā. 
— Vichar Sagar, sixth tarang, verse 169

New interesting post on the Manglacharan blog:
 
Varied Spiritual Approaches in Gurmat - Vichār Sāgar
As mentioned previously on this site, Vichār Sāgar is a very important text in the curriculum of Udāsi, Nirmalā, Taksāl groups. This passage explains the different approaches toward spiritual practices. From one perspective there is a hierarchy leaning towards formless devotion/meditation [ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਉਪਾਸਨਾ] but this does not lessen the importance of other approaches, as they are also paths toward enlightenment [ਮੁਕਤੀ]. It should be noted that the multiple approaches are not seen as mutually exclusive from one another. Similar passages are found in Gūrū Gōbind Singh Ji's, Gōbind Gitā, and Bhāi Mani Singh Ji's, Sikhan Dian Bhagat Mālā. 
— Vichar Sagar, sixth tarang, verse 169

Suryadev: Interesting you use the term Pooran avatar which itself stems from Vedanta.. So you are suggesting that the Gurus merely took over a concept, removed Krishna and Ram Chander and placed themselves within it? According to Taksal and probably the nirmale also Krishna, Ram Chander and the Gurus were Pooran Hari Avatars.

Likewise it is written in the Dasam Granth and even Bhai Gurdaas that Krishna and Ram provided mukhti to their followers in their respective yugas. In this yug Guru Nanak is the Pooran Hari Avatar whose teachings are the most suitable for mukhti.



Did you even read up on vedant because if you did you would probably undertand what is said in these tuks.. There is no Brahmin who is gonna argue against these tuks as in vedant itself it is stated that the four vedas do not provide mukti! Nor is any Brahmin gonna argue that there is katha on the transcendent nirgun God in the four Vedas as this comes in the Upanishad litterature! Nor is any Brahmin gonna argue against the fact that it is only through a Satguru that mukhti can be achieved (The Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads are clear on this!).

And what litterature knows the mystery of God? Do you think you will be able to grasp the mystery of God by READING Gurbani? Come on, The last tuk is ustat of God and not slander of the 4 vedas..

The Gurus were reittirating what Vedanta itself says.. If you believe these statements are somehow the Gurus' attempts to debunk hinduism you are wrong as these things can be found within the vedic canon itself!




vedant litterature are of two categories: Sruti and Smriti. Sruti is revealed by God (four vedas upanishads etc) and smriti is man made (puranas, mahabharata, ramayan etc). The tuk says 'that which the pandits have written' clearly meaning the smriti litterature... I dont think any Brahmin will argue that the simriti litterature will provide spirituality nor mukhti to a seeker which is clearly the aim of Baba Kabir in his banis.



Do a search on this forum for Yug dharma by Tsingh and see the context of how the above tuks should be read.



Again you are just using your mat coming from a culture that hates females to interpret the above. Try to give the lines to a gora english man and tell me if he read any negativity or slander of females into the text??? Where does it say women are inferior or anything? The culture in which the vedas was revealed was based on tribes and such so men were of course the one who hunted and did hard labour so of course men were needed and treasured hence the wish for prayers to have sons... The current crisis in Punjab on hating and killing female babies are mainly based on maya and a growing greedy middle class so stop reading contemporary ideas into an ancient text..


.
And no Brahmin is gonna argue that you can become one with God by reciting Vedas.



The hindu anna turk kanna is a description of the majority of people form the two traditions. you think that Guru ARjan thought Mian Meer to have been one eyed?? Or Mansoor? Rumi?? Hafez???



When I say it is possible to for people of other religions to achieve mukhti im not talking about hindus who do pooja of murtis all day and bathe in the ganges all night long, nor muslims who are obsessed with sharia. Im talking about the one's who follow a Guru/pir (ie nirgunvadis and sufis) who care more for union with God than paradise.. Who spend more time working on controling their vices than merely to just stop reacting on their vices etc.in case of christiand then its the gnostics..

Im talking about a specific minority in the two traditions, im not talking about the majority.. Why would I even argue its possible for mainstream muslim and hindus to achieve union with God when their purpose and target is paradise/baikunth??

ਮਾਰਫਤੀ ਮਾਰੂਫ ਲਖ ਹਕ ਹਕੀਕਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਮਾਣੇ।
Myriad people have become famous by reaching the last stage of knowledge, the marfati and many in His divine Will have merged into the haqiqat, the truth.

In regards to farsi words I do think it is important that Sikhs study the original langauges. There is a big difference in listening to the Zafarnama and Goya Ghazals read out by a Persian speaking guy and a Punjabi speaking guy. Hear these for example:
 
 
 
 
 

In regards to farsi words I do think it is important that Sikhs study the original langauges. There is a big difference in listening to the Zafarnama and Goya Ghazals read out by a Persian speaking guy and a Punjabi speaking guy. Hear these for example:
 
 
 
 
 

This is turning into the usual kindergarden so we are locking the thread.

Enjoy
 
 

Enjoy
 
 

This is turning into the usual kindergarden so we are locking the thread.

This is turning into the usual kindergarden so we are locking the thread.

Www.srigranth.org has the teeka of professor Sahib Singh and Fareedkoti of Baba Badan Singh Nirmala. Both are good

wow. awesome quote!
 

Also include this "charitar" from the vaars of Bhai Gurdas:
 
ਕਾਮਣਿ ਕਾਮਣਿਆਰੀਐ ਕੀਤੋ ਕਾਮਣੁ ਕੰਤ ਪਿਆਰੇ।
The enchantress wife with her charms made the husband dote on her.
 
ਜੰਮੇ ਸਾਈਂ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਵੀਵਾਹਿਆ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।
He forgot the parents who had given him birth and had got him married.
 
ਸੁਖਾਂ ਸੁਖਿ ਵਿਵਾਹਿਆ ਸਉਣੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਿਚਾਰਿ ਵਿਚਾਰੇ।
Having made vows of offerings and considerd many good and bad omens and auspicious combinations, his marriage had been arranged by them.
 
ਪੁਤ ਨੂਹੈਂ ਦਾ ਮੇਲੁ ਵੇਖਿ ਅੰਗ ਨ ਮਾਵਨਿ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਵਾਰੇ।
Seeing at the meetings of the son and the daughter-in-law, the parents had felt over­joyed.
 
ਨੁੰਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਮੰਤ ਕੁਮੰਤ ਦੇਇ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਛਡਿ ਵਡੇ ਹਤਿਆਰੇ।
The bride then started continuously advising the husband to desert his parents instigating that they had been tyrants.
 
ਵਖ ਹੋਵੈ ਪੁਤੁ ਰੰਨਿ ਲੈ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੇ।
Forgetting the benefactions of parents, the son alongwith his wife got separated from them.
 
ਲੋਕਾਚਾਰਿ ਹੁਇ ਵਡੇ ਕੁਚਾਰੇ ॥੧੨॥
Now the way of the world has become grossly immoral.
 
http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/37/pauri/12/line/4

Dalsingh: indeed and thank you for that perspective. There are definately loads of people (in all religious traditions) who seek to attach themselves to famous persona. Lets say the above lineages are all fake - what about those who were actually historically connected to these people? Did'n they write anything? Should we just dismiss it all?

Coming across the above lineage was interesting for me: Firstly because it mentions people i've never heard of before. Secondly because the Amir Bhandar teeka written some decades ago provide a similiar lineage as that handwritten pothi lays claim to belong to (150 years ago). I did look into evidence of these modern day taksali lineages without ever being able to come across anything in non-taksali writings pre 1960s. However, this pothi written some 100-120 years earlier provide a similiar lineage, just with fewer chains because it is obviosly closer to Guru Gobind Singh's time.
In one of Rattan Singh Bhangu's Granths he likewise claims a lineage back to Guru Gobind Singh's court through Sainapati, Pandit Punjab Singh, Mehtab Singh etc. I think its about 4-5 chains. One could accuse him of making it up, or one could look into the possibility that some of the people mentioned in the chains had students whom they passed knowledge onto which at one point in time made it down to Rattan Singh Bhangu and other scholars of the 19th century and onwards.
 

The ban on taking the keshara off is due to the military legacy of the rahit. It is part of the tyaar bar tyaar identity along side the Singhs not being alloud to tie their dastaar in front of a mirror.