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big5abi

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  1. I ask the moderators to delete the offensive parts of his posts and ban him! How can you allow such slander?? I am aware that everyone should be given a chance to have their say, but the point of these forums is to spread love and knowedge not to nind Sants and Sampradayes.
  2. THIS IS RIDICULOUS AND HE SHOULD BE BANNED!!
  3. Guru Da Sikh this forum is not strictly reserved for analyzing Gurbani but to explore the many facets of Sikhi. One of them being the teachings of Saints. Since your posts wreak of Kala Afghanaism (ex-communicated from the panth) I assume you have no tolerance towards them. I am from Lopon, and the cows you may see “running around” are the cows kept by the villagers to earn a living, just as you see in every village in Punjab. As for the cow sanctuary, the cows are kept in a complex where they are taken care of. No, it does not refer to cows as being sacred in Guru Granth Sahib Ji but the names Gopal and Govind do appear. These names if taken literally mean the protector of cows and the weak. Many times do the words Khill and Bhikh appear in Gurbani. For example: Khill Bikh Pap Dukh Leh Jahey… Khill Bikh Sakal Deh Ko Harta… Khill Bikh Dukh Naseh… In Sikhism Khill and Bhikh are considered the two lowest acts one can commit. In the faridkot tika Khill is referred to as the killing of a cow and bhikh, the killing of a Saint. Also, in the Janam Sakhi it states: Gou bheans atehh murgian hai haivan garib, tin par shurri haraam hai khavan tenah paleet. In Which Guru Nanak states the killing of cows, buffaloes and chickens is considered haraam. In Sikhi the worship of cows is forbidden but the protection is encouraged. All ten of the Gurus had in one way or another preached the protection of the weak. The cow in Puratan times, was and in many cases still is regarded as a symbol purity and innocence which must be preserved. The Sixth and Tenth Guru were also very vocal about enforcing severe punishments for the killers of cows. Sant Darbara Singh JI had rescued those cows from butchers whom were on their way to a slaughter house. They were built a complex to ensure their well-being. If you actually read the history in the website it says: “Sant Darbara Singh Ji guided the Gursangat towards the holy teachings of the Shri Guru Granth Sahib.” “Reading, reciting and interpreting the Holy Scriptures from the Shri Guru Granth Sahib.” “Sant Jagjit Singh Ji is honouring the life work of Shri Maan Swami Sant Darbara Singh Ji through the teachings of the Shri Guru Granth Sahib in India and internationally.” The attire you speak of was the same attire Guru Gobind Singh Ji sent his five Sikhs to Benares in. Sant Darbara Singh ji always wore a Dastaar during His Kathas on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as you can see in one of the pictures. I see your understanding on the word “marketing” is very obscured. The purpose of this website is to make known the devotion and service these saints have made to the Panth. The sangat had constructed this site to share the spiritual experiences they have had through the teachings of Bani, interpreted by the saints of this village. No where on the site, or anywhere else can it be presumed that these Saints are influenced by any material desire, let alone “dollars and pounds” Instead of pointing fingers I suggest you point a few at yourself and your obvious mentor kala afghana. I find it strange how someone with the name of guru da sikh can follow such defiled old man. Before accusing deras and villages of possessing too many cows, you should ask kala afghana how many women he possessed during his 92’ rape case.
  4. As King Janak was ascending to SachKhand, He heard the cries of Hell and had shown mercy. With his penance he had gotten 960 million souls redeemed. The redeemed souls were given a temporal life within the astral plane, after which due to the cosmic law, had to descend to this mortal plane to take rebirth. Raja Janak had been sent by Akal Purakh to assume the form of Guru Nanak and bestow supreme liberation upon the redeemed jivas, freeing them from birth and death.
  5. I have heard this from many Sants, one of them being Sant Darbara Singh of Lopon.
  6. Guru Nanak Maharaj was Raja Janak of Mithla in His past life.
  7. Vaikunth is Vishnus Heaven where a preservatory shakti governs the material creation reclining among the coils of the great snake. According to indian mythology, Vaikunth is located ontop a cosmic mountain called Meru. Flowing through it is the river Ganga, whose source is often said to be the lotus feet of Vishnu. He is frequently referred to as Narayan, the ever present and all-prevading spirit. According to Vaishnavism, Vishnu and his abode is the sole reality. one without second percieved as brahman the Absolute in a form that may be approached or related to by jivas. he is the means to liberation and the goal to be attained. yet, the soul, after living many aeons of pleasure, still has to descend to the material world to attain Final Liberation. Vaikunth has also been used synonomously for Sach Khand by many Sants. As Vaikunth is subject to dissolution, Sach khand is not. Sach khand is the truly eternal or imperishable, all embracing realm reached by the soul on its ascent, free frm change, the ultimate abode of absolute bliss, beyond the dissolution and grand dissolution. sach Khand is the final destination of the soul which is beyond brahm. this realm is beyond maya and beyond all the heaven-worlds such as shiv puri, inder puri and vaikunth. many Sainst have indicated that the brahm described in the upanishads and in yoga and vedant is below the highest level they have known. namdev says that he has experienced the ultimate goal of yoga-knowledge of brahm- and he has also gone beyond that: I have churned the six schools of philosophy, and extracted their essence I have learnt the utimate goal of the yogis and ascetics and known the joy of merging in brahm through the grace of the saints, says nama I have transcended all of that. namdev, gatha 2026
  8. click here There has been a website launched of Lopon Sampradaye which is still being updated, check it out.
  9. The mind of an ordinary person is uncontrollably active with incoming alerts from the five senses of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching, and with directing outgoing messages to the motor nerves in response. true concentration whether on prayer or God or anything else, is impossible so long as the mind is thus outwardly distracted. most people experiance surcease from the sensory tumult only in the state of sleep, when the mind automatically stills the flow of the life energy that activates the sensory and motor nerves. meditation techniques teach of controlling the life energy consciously, enabling one to disconnect the mind at will from the intrusion of the senses. this creates not an unconscious oblivion, but a blissful transference of identity from the false reality of the body and sensory world to the truth of ones being, the supernal soul, created in gods image. in that interiorized silence wherein the souls divine sonship is no longer squandered in the prodigal outward consciousness, true prayer and divine communion with God, are not only possible, but dynamically effective.
  10. Vishnu is immaculate compared to us and the demi-gods but he is still in maya and is subject to dissolution. All the names like Vishnu and Raam are sometimes used as synonyms for Akaal. Guru Arjan Dev Maharaj praises vishnu and his avtars and calls them saviours.
  11. Matheen you are mistaken, I said Vishnu is immaculate, as Guru Ji states in the Guru Granth Sahib. Valli Singh said kalki will not be infalliable. Which means not perfect. I suggest you thoroughly read through posts before replying.
  12. The Kalki avtar is Raja Dileep Singh from the sun dynasty and great grandfather of the saviour of treta, Ram Chander and father of Bhagirath. Dileep Singh was the only one to complete 100 Ashvamedh yugs, other than Inder. His life was one of valor and sacrifice. He had protected the celestial cow, Nandini and offered himself as food to a tiger which was materialized by Nandini to test the King. He had later given up his kingdom situated at Hastinapur (Delhi) and had retired to a forest, where he had spent the last years of his life immersed in simran. He had then ascended to the mountain of Mandrachal where he still remains in samadhi awaiting the time for his descent to Mrityu Lok, towards the end of Kaliyuga, to rid it of its pain and suffering. This is true as a lot of Maha Shaktis such as Sant Darbara Singh (Lopon) and Sant Isher Singh (Kaleran) have also confirmed this. He will be a Vishnu Avtar, who is the preserver, protector and master of the three worlds. He is free of anguish and absolutley immaculate. Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji Has spoken about Vishnu In his Bani on ang1082: O Creator, You assumed the form of Bavan to defeat the Demons, You are the Lord of all. You are Sri Raam Chander, whom has no shape or form. Adorned with garlands, holding the divine discus, You're beautiful and incomparable Emancipator, the enticer of hearts, Lord of Laxmi By the Pleasure of His Will, He took incarnation as the great fish and the tortoise. He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord. He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. He alone unites with Him, whom He unites with Himself. No one can attain the Lord by himself. He Himself is the milk-maid, and He Himself is Krishna. Which of Your Glorious Virtues can I chant with my one tongue? Note: only a selection of lines from ang 1082-83 Parmatma sends his radiant sons, or his forms to dispel the agonies of the world. He himself is rid of maya and matter. Just like Guru Nanak said He will come in the form of 72 Nitt avatars. They will be his form but not literally Him.
  13. "Thanks kam, yes that is a private dwelling, and it is not an ashram in the sense that we know it, but as a guess i would say that the chela who duz the fundraising for Baba Ji or is his represenatative in the UK, lives there and registered it as aplace of worship." The Sant Ashram in Wolverhampton was a house of a sevadar of Sant Darbara Singh Ji. He had given it to Sant Darbara singh ji, and Swami Ji as he was reffered to, had refused to take it, but as the sevadar insisted Swami Ji had given it to the sangat in return and had told the sangat to hold a satsang there once a month. The sangat has been doing satsang every month at that location since the early 70's. The sevadar who is currently in charge of the ashram is the son of the one who donated it. This is not a place of residence as no one resides there, it is a place of worship where satsang is held every month. I have known the chief sevadars and all of the sangat there as has my family for atleast 30 years. "Sant Balbir Singh came to our gurdwara yesterday..." You should ask Sant Balbir Singh about Lopon Wale he wil tell you a lot about them and the gaddi, he is very close to Sant Jagjit Singh of Lopon. Sant Balbir Singh Ji had also come to my house this summer when he had visited toronto.
  14. no, he(baba mitt singh, guru of sant darbara singh ji) was an al-mast faqir of Lopon. He was born there and had done 60 years of tapasaya before renouncing his mortal coil.
  15. a little history... During the reign of the sixth Guru, Sri guru hargobind sahib ji there was much need to illuminate those who were limited to remote regions. The sixth Master had traveled to vast lands liberating all who fell under his gaze of mercy as he trekked upon that fortunate soil of what is now known as the Punjab. Many had been the villages which had hosted the lotus feet of such a divinity and many the streets that had been perfumed by the celestial fragrance of that supreme king. During their kingly travels guru ji had inquired the whereabouts of the village of Lopon, from the gursangat. The congregation had humbly replied that “the town of Lopon is strictly devoted to the worship of Pirs and it will not be wise to go there as the townspeople will pay no heed to us.” Guru Ji with his omniscient sight knew all and had a longing to visit the town. He replied “I will not refuse you the congregation, nor will I carry out my own desire, yet I will leave the decision to my steed and wherever it shall tread we shall follow.” Guru Ji and the sangat had followed the steed for miles until it had arrived at the gates of Lopon which was then known as Piran Puri (the land of Prophets). Guru Ji and the gursangat had now begun to enter the village. The townspeople were left in awe as they witnessed the great master mounted upon a white horse dressed in a silk robe sporting a golden plume. Flooded with ecstasy the villagers came with offerings to pay homage and performed much selfless service. Guru Ji had become pleased with the love and devotion displayed by the people that he granted innumerable boons to the village. Before departing from the village Guru Ji had given a sword to the residents of Lopon, but the villagers had given it back stating “how can the son perform the duties of his father.” To this reply the Guru was very pleased and said that “it is your wish but as of now you will forever maintain a sharp verbosity which will be at once prophetic and shall also cut the fetters of the ignorance of travelers.” As Guru ji were leaving they granted many boons pertaining to the advancement and spiritual progress the village would make. One of the boons had foretold that a divine succession of highly elevated Sants (saints) would flourish in Lopon which would impart upon humanity the sacred teachings of the Sikh Gurus. The land, Guru Ji said will be blessed by five sants, one being revealed and four being secret. The revealed will lead the lineage and progress it towards Naam-shabad, service and charity while the remaining four will live amongst the men concealing their divinity. These four will only be known to the revealed saint and will serve as spiritual aids to the lineage. The lineage will also provide, as well as stress the need for Lok Seva (service to humanity) and charity. Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji had stated that “whoever shall reside in this lineage shall be in the form of a spiritually perfected mahapursh and will not descend beneath the state of turiya (fourth state of consciousness).” Guru Ji stated that “one day there will be a prophet of high spiritual status and of a very young age who will ascend to Lopon and shower the village with knowledge and divine teachings making it a place of learning and tutelage. He will also erect many marble temples and impart the importance of service and charity.” Amongst these boons many more were granted. Many were the sants and Fakirs(Sufi ascetic) that had blessed the village of Lopon long before it was blessed with the lotus feet of Sri Guru hargobind sahib ji. For hundreds and thousands of years this village had played host to such prophets and sages such as Allah Yaar, The Seven Rishis and many others. In accordance with the divine words of Guru Ji, Baba Bhagat Singh Ji upon direction from their spiritual teacher Baba Kudah Singh Ji, had travelled from Lahore (Pakistan) to Lopon. And so began the fulfillment of the prophetic words uttered by Guru Ji. According to local history passed on by earlier generations, Baba Bhagat Singh Ji had been very fond of the village and had decided to remain there for the remainder of his life. He had bestowed his knowledge of the infinite upon the people of Lopon and had accumulated 40 long years of meditation. One day while Baba Bhagat Singh Ji was blessing the congregation with the importance of reciting naam-shabad, Baba Jis attention had been drawn towards an angelic looking boy who had the marks of a great saint written on his forehead. Through their spiritual insight Baba Bhagat Singh Ji had realized that this young boy will one day become my successor. Baba Ji had taken the young boy in their arms and had asked his name, to which the boy replied, Mitt Singh. Baba Ji had at that moment told the sangat that “this young boys Samadhi(absorbtion of consciousness) will ascend above the Triguna (three qualities of material nature) and he is the rightful heir to this succession of saints.” At the age of 85, Baba Bhagat Singh Ji ascended to their heavenly abode and passed on their sacred mission to Baba Mitt Singh Ji who at the time was of 21 years of age. Baba Mitt Singh was an Al-mast fakir, who was entranced by internal spiritual experiences and ecstasies which may appear mad to a casual outside observer but were nothing of the sort. While remaining in this state of divine ecstasy Baba Mitt Singh Ji had recited Baba Bhagat Singh Ji’s divine teachings to the congregation through prayers and Seva(service). Every day Swami Mitt Singh Ji would collect milk and food from local villagers for the Langar (community kitchen). Whilst undertaking these duties Swami Mitt Singh Ji would recite the teachings of past Masters and Gurus to enlighten the villagers in matters of those which are heavenly. During this time Baba Mitt Singh Ji had meditated for 60 years and had attained a state of God-realization, transcending the three qualities and all maya(illusion). Baba Mitt Singh had time to time contemplated on his potential successor. Baba Bhag Singh had once told Baba Mitt Singh that “your spiritual successor will come in the form of God himself and will change the face of Lopon as well as The Punjab.” Upon the birth of Sri Maan Sant Darbara Singh Ji, Many sants, fakirs and holy men had congratulated Baba Mitt Singh Ji saying that “the Sixth gurus’ words have now come true.” Baba Mitt Singh Ji had rejoiced and had visited the two day old Swami Darbara Singh Ji. When Baba Mitt Singh Ji had lifted Swami Ji in his arms he was satisfied and had at that moment adopted Swami Darbara Singh Ji as their disciple. From a very young age Baba Mitt Singh Ji had referred to Swami Darbara Singh Ji as “pundit” (scholar) saying that he is the omniscient pundit who possesses knowledge of all the scriptures an will not need any type of formal education. As years had passed, Swami Darbara Singh Ji had performed continuous self-less service in the presence of and towards the congregation and His Guru Baba Mitt Singh Ji. Baba Mitt Singh Ji was pleased and had bestowed Swami Ji with Naam (internal Sound) and Daan (spirit of Charity). When Baba Mitt Singh Ji had reached the last few years of his life, He had decided it is time to reveal the Hukam(divine will) of God to Swami Darbara Singh Ji. Baba Mitt Singh Ji had told Swami Ji that God has ordered you to carry out five duties during your spiritual tenure. The five being: 1.) Reading, reciting and interpreting the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and bestowing the knowledge of God upon people. 2.) Construct roads and improve pathways where needed, due to the lack of development at that time. 3.) Construction and commissioning of schools and colleges. 4.) Constructing hospitals, Gaoo Shalas (sacred cow sanctuaries) and Langars (community kitchens) 5.) To build and maintain Gurudwaras in the name of the Sikh Gurus. Before making his departure to Sach Khand (heaven), Baba Mitt Singh Ji had given an arrow and a blanket to Swami Ji on the day of Masiah (New moon) during the month of Maghar (November/December) and had left to heaven. By doing so he had ordained Swami Darbara singh as His Successor bestowing upon Him his power and glory. Baba Mitt Singh Ji had told Swami Ji to read and interpret Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to the people and always know it as the eternal form of Akaal Purakh (time-less being). Through his service and charity Swami Darbara Singh Ji had spread the word of God through spiritual discourses from sri Guru granth Sahib and had reinforced the love between man with the power of Naam. Swami Ji had committed his life to setting people on the true path of enlightenment with interpretations and recitations of Sri guru granth sahib ji. Swami Darbara Singh Ji, true to the words of His Guru fulfilled the five hukams of akaal purakh related to Him by Baba Mitt Singh Ji. During his lifetime, Swami Darbara Singh Ji had erected a white marble temple in memory of His Guru. Swami ji had constructed and commissioned many schools providing a better means of education to the ones who were unfortunate to receive any. Many were the roads and paths which were paved and gave way to better means of transport. Swami Ji had also completed sevas of gurudwaras located mainly in The Punjab, such as Takhtupura Sahib and Kiratpur Sahib to name a few. During Swami Jis lifetime of 47 years he had written many historical accounts of the Sikh Gurus and other avataras in the form of couplets, odes, sonnets and ballads. Through these poetical verses he conveyed the teachings of the sikh gurus in the form of Kavitas(poems) sung by kavishars(singers of poetic verse). Through His inner gaze Swami Ji had appointed Sant Zora Singh Ji as his Successor. Swami ji had elucidated the mission that Sri guru Hargobind sahib ji had bestowed upon this succession of saints to Sant Zora Singh ji saying that it is essential to move it forward for the well being and spiritual progression of humanity. Swami Zora Singh Ji continued to maintain and progress the divine vision set by His Guru. During His time on earth Sant Zora Singh Ji dedicated His life to performing various public charitable services as well as holding monthly programmes commemorating significant days pertaining to sikh history. In the memory of their Guru Ji, Swami Zora Singh Ji erected a beautiful holy shrine, as well as other gurudwaras and schools. Five years prior to leaving to His heavenly abode, Sant Zora Singh ji had foretold that his successor would be sant jagjit Singh Ji. On the morning of December 3rd 2005 Sant Zora Singh had transferred his duties and mission to sant Jagjit Singh placing upon Him His gaze of wisdom and grace, after which he had renounced his five elemental body and merged into the lotus feet of Waheguru. The Sant Darbara Singh Ik-Onkar Trust continues to fund the education of students in schools and colleges today. Sant Jagjit Singh Ji is honouring the life work of Shri Maan Swami Sant Darbara Singh Ji through the teachings of the Shri Guru Granth Sahib in India and internationally. With patience, pure compassion and utter dedication Sant Jagjit Singh Ji is whole heartedly pursuing the divine mission set by his predecessors. Sant Darbara Singh Ji did not gain his knowledge at Hardwar as some people on this forum are misinformed. He had little or no formal education as everything he had learned was from his guru Baba Mitt Singh Ji. Baba Mitt singh ji had told sant darbara singh ji that all the vedas and granths will be known to you at will as you have already been educated by a higher power. Through his immaculate recitation and interpretations of gurbani Sant Darbara Singh ji had bestowed pearls of naam upon the sangat. My family has been following Sant Darbara singh ji's gaddi for four generations and are now fortunate enough to attain divine knowledge from Sant Jagjit Singh Ji of Lopon. Sant Balbirs singh jis gaddi had sprouted from the grace of Santa darbara singh ji. Sant Avtar Singh of seechewal was a disciple of Sant Darbara Singh ji and had devoted many years of his life in sevice for them. Sant Darbara Singh ji had become pleased and had bestowed his eye of grace on them. Gaddi: BHAI DAYA SINGH JI (FIRST BELOVED) + BABA SOBHA SINGH JI (ANANDPUR SAHIB) + SAHIB SINGH BEDI (UNA SAHIB WALE) + BABA BHAG SINGH JI (KURHI) + BABA BIR SINGH JI (NAURANGABADI) + BABA KHUDA SINGH JI (LAHORE) + BABA BHAGAT SINGH JI (LOPON) + BABA MITT SINGH JI (LOPON) + SANT DARBARA SINGH JI (LOPON) + SANT JORA SINGH JI (LOPON) + SANT JAGJIT SINGH JI (LOPON)
  16. the line you quoted "Man Tu Jot Saroop Hai Apna Mool Pahichan" backs up just what i said before. Gods roop is latent potential, it must be realized to be actualized by ur consciousness. to answer ur second point, the astral body with the soul intact is present in the court of dharamraj. i've never claimed 111 as births i said 108. 111 is what ive heard people say about sants such as sant isher singh ji and others. 108 is the number for a sant and previous births. the last question u asked poses a Catch 22. it seems that ur trying to box me into refuting your taksali sources, and perhaps you want me to nind this list of names you've written-i won't stoop so low-but i will say i dont doubt their hasti. perhaps they are well read and great scholars and perhaps attained samadhi and can leave their bodies at will, this would make them great sadhus but if they haven't reached the causal plane(gyan khand) and merged the causal body(which contains the seeds of all past lives) into that region. they would not be conscious of all their past incarnations. a true sant surpasses two greater regions than this and arrives at sachkhand to final liberation, but one is accepted here by akaal purkh after 108 past lives of tapasaya. this is the spiritual meaning of the term 108. i repeat what i said before either they are witholding the information or they dont know. through all of this uve failed to note that I have whole heartedly agreed with all of your interpretations, only i privelige a more spiritual meaning of the 108 designation. it seems that something is driving you to disprove my assertion which is not found in your maze of books. In posting i was hoping that others could see the sublimity and grandeur of how great a soul a sant is. but instead u seem narrowmindedly bent with your insistences which verge on showing off your pundit like memorization of various steeks. is this spirtual knowledge? or is it the mere parrotting of texts by narrowminded interpretation with no objectivity? i suggest u re-read the original post by valli singh if that doesnt give u enough prem to overcome your scholarly ego and punditry then i dont know what will. this is my last post on this topic
  17. ya i've been in the presence of true maha pursh also and i've heard of 108 being reffered to as past lives. any mahapursh who uses that number and doesnt know the spiritual significance shouldnt be using it. sant refers to soeone from sachkhand with 108 past births. who ever doesnt know that, is either witholding information or is not a sant.
  18. no we haven't realized God yet so therefore we are not above kaal. God is latent within us, we only have the potential to realize God and be like the sants. if through meditation our soul ascends from the body through all the spiritual realms and merges with god then yes we are outside of desh kaal and vastu.
  19. yes, jaswant singh(khuda singh) from bhai daya singh sampradai
  20. all ur material meanings are true about the upanishads and other granths but im talking about the spiritual meaning. 108 is the number of lives which have accumulated for one to become a sant. i know that 108 is true. the meaning behind this number is past births of penance. nowadays the "sants" who use this infront of their name don't know the meaning themselves. very few know about the spiritual meaning. i was told this meaning by sant jagjit singh ji lopon wale. they are the son of late sant zora singh ji and the nephew of sri maan sant darbara singh ji of lopon, who were known for their charity, constructing many roads colleges gurudwara such as takhtupara and kiratpur sahib and katha of sri guru granth sahib ji. Sant darbara singh ji also used to talk about the number 108 referring it to past lives of tapasaya. this lineage is from bhai daya singh and has come to the lopon village after baba khudah singh ji of lahore. baba khuda singh jis disciple was baba bhagat singh ji who had come to lopon, their successor was sant mitt singh ji and their successor was sant darbara singh ji then sant jora singh ji and now sant jagjit singh ji. It was through the grace of guru hargobind sahib ji when they had come to lopon during their travels and had granted many boons to the vllage, of which one was that their will be a spiritual succession of saints in the village. also Sri Guru hargbind sahib ji had said that whoever will be on this lineage will not have less than 108 lives of tapasaya.(thus 108 births is the spiritual standard for a sant) nor will descend lower then the 4th state of consciousness. about the kaal part i already explained that and i agree the body belongs to kaal but the soul does not hence the soul is akaal. and sants are free from death because sants have nothing to do with the body its jus a elemental jacket they take off. of course it faces death, the body, not the soul. and no death doesnt take sants, god does. sants are not born nor do they die. its just the body that dies. when im talking about a sant im not talking about what colour their hair is or how tall they are im talking about the soul. material things have nothing to do with spirituality and spirituality has nothing to do with materiality. its one or the other. if u wanna say sants bodies die, fine i agree. but what about the things that actually matter.. like their soul. kaal can't do anytihng with that. the soul doesnt age nor die. we can go on forever talking about this if u want cuz i dont think u know what im saying... and i don't really agree with what ur saying
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