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Bhai Sahib

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Everything posted by Bhai Sahib

  1. I do wish this to be a debate between the two of us but just to answer your questions. Withh regards to the copmments made re the website In fairness i think it is a true repesentation of orthodox images of each religion. With reagrds to your recent comment: In that case why would we need to do nitnem, go to the Gurdwara to join in sadh sangat, do simran. In which case we need not do anything other than take amrit. I agree that Guru Ji as everything but what he wants is our love which we show via doing simran, seva etc as well as giving our head!!!!
  2. Harpreet Singh Ji sorry to disagree with you again but i do disagree vermently with your points above re giving of ones head. However it is amazing that you have given my counter-point within your own statement. The whole point of giving ones head to to surrunder oneself. Therefore yes YOU still exist prior to giving your head but once you decide to give it you realise that there is more than just YOU and you have given everything to Guru Ji. Those who still have hankar will not give thier haed and will continue to believe that they are in controll of everything. I will reiterate my early point and say:
  3. Firstly a note to the moderator: My intention is not to make this into an AKJ v Nihaang debate since that debate is long dead and they have shown themselves to be narrow minded and have very little knowledge on Gurbani and Gursikhi. So i do not need to travel down that road. In my post you edited i was making simple points such as the fact that this is the year that we are remembering the shahidee of the for sahbzade killed in the name of Islam yet we have individuals here thinking that Islam is fab!!!! I see nothing there about inflamming a nihaang v AKJ debate. The only thing i did was to to quote a nihaang webpage which has been shown to mis-quote Gurbani very frequently so that individuals could gauge what a true distructive site is rather than www.whyichosesikhi.com. Unfortunately that is the only site i am aware of which does mis-quote Gurbani. I hope this clarifies matters. With regards to Harpreet's e-mail. I disagree when you say that you do not choose sikhi since you do. You cannot be born as a Sikh you have to physically decide to give your head and accept Gursikhi. Since as Guru Ji says numerous times: sathigur saev lagae har charanee vaddai bhaag liv laagee || Serving the True Guru, I am attached to the Lord's Lotus Feet; by great good fortune, I have embraced love for Him. paarabreham thin ka(n)o sa(n)thusatt bhaeiaa jo gur charanee jan paahi || The Supreme Lord God is pleased with those who fall at the Guru's Feet. Bhai Gurdas goes even further and states that: dhhrig sir jo gur n nivai gur lagai n charanee|| Therefore this shows that it is a choice. You must choose to adopt Sikhi. YES it is true that without karam and pichle bhag you will not even have the option to make a choice. You are fotunate to be born in a family or have the sangat of those which could lead you along the path of a Gurshikhi jeevan but that does not mean you will adopt it. With regards to Sikhi being the only path to salvation you again need to go no further that Bhai Gurdas who stated when Guru Nanak went to Mecca and spoke about the Hindus and Muslims he said: rwh raah shaithaanee dhuneeaa goee ||aa|| The whole of the world is following the ways of Satan. Bhagat Fareheed adds to this by saying: lakh chouraaseeh firadhae rehae bin sathigur mukath n hoee || People continue wandering through the cycle of 8.4 million incarnations; without the True Guru, liberation is not obtained. Harpreet Singh and my other brothers and sisters i urge you all to understand our Guru and read bani. I reluctanty post on boards if asked to do so to ensure that the youth are not being told incorrect facts. If nothing else i urge you all to read a translation of Asa Di Vaar and also the whole of Maru Raag which starts on Ang 889 upto ang 1106. Since then you will see that although Guru Ji promotes love and tolerence towards all there is also another aspect. I urge you to take a few days out and read bani outlined. As we have already discused it is ONLY in Guru Nanaks house that you can obtain naam. As we all know it is only with naam that you can gain salvation therefore this should answer your question. Another main point is that Sikhi is the only religion that aligns one direct with Waheguru all otheres say worship another first. Christains have to love Jesus before they can get to Jehova Muslims need to love Mohamed before they get to Allah. I hope you get the jist of what i am saying. As ever all i ask is you do your own research rather than relying upon others and listening to heresay. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mod Note: Bhai Sahib this is your third post and you have attacked our site without any reason. Please stick to topic as we have requested earlier. This forum is to discuss and if you don't agree with any points then present counter arguements but you don't need to judge/assume things in here. Your posts will not be deleted as you have assumed because this is not a cult site where people are forced to believe in our type of Sikhi. Members are discussing about that site and still you have attacked our site just for allowing topic. You can have hater towards our site and we have no problem with it. But during discussion you don't need to post your hate comments in every post you make instead stick to topic and follow discussion.
  4. This is one way to keep a discussion one sided. I find it very hard to believe that you can class my views as personnel but those of others as not so. Is it not a personnel view when it is stated that Gurbani is misquoted without justification or that those who have set up the site are wrong or that islam is a fantastic religion or that this site is misleading the youth!!! So what is wrong in me saying that if you want to see Gurbani mis-quoted or an attempt to destroy the youth you need go no further than to http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/home.html. I presume this post will be edited or deleted again since it provides a logical argument against the falisies being propogated. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mod Note: Bhai Sahib: We can't allow Nihang VS AKj anymore and this is the reason we have edited your personal views where you were going to bring Nihangs website just to divert this whole thread into AKJ vs Nihangs. And you should be aware of this that you had more in your personal views not just what you have mentioned. If you are so concerned about mis-quotation then bring them up but it will be your hypocrisy just to say and don't show anything. This thread is specifically for the site which is in first post, so your post where you will try to turn it into AKJ VS Nihangs will not be allowed. Feel free to start new thread and let us know what is mis-quoted in that website and we have no problem with it but without making efforts your personal views are nothing but false allegations. If you want to participate in this thread then try to defend and present your counter arguement otherwise be in mute mode.
  5. Unfortunately Hari it is you who is completely incorrect. For example when you state: Since for starters your translation of that thuk is complete manmat, how can you say that in Guru Nanak's house there is only naam. How can there be nothing else other than naam. What abour Gurshabad, seva, amrit etc etc. The translation on the site is correct if you place the bisram (pause) in the thuk in the right place i.e. Nanak ke ghar keval, Naam. Therefore the direct translation is Nanak's house is only, Naam when put gramitcally it becomes Only in Nanak's house is Naam. Your manmat translation comes in if you incorrectly place the bisram as follows: Nanak ke ghar, keval Naam. Hopefully you now see the difference. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mod note: Edited rest of the post due to your personal views. Stick to topic
  6. damdami taksal is just as much a jatha as the akhand kirtani jatha are... i would sugest that you go to the first amrit sanchar that occurs in your vicinity and may Guru Ji do kirpa on you
  7. you should not look jathebandi when you preparing to take amrit. Since amrit is given by panch singh not by a jathabandi... What you should look at is: - the jeevaan and the nitnem of the panj singh who take part in the amrit sanchar. - how they conduct the amrit sanchar....if it is along the lines of tat-gurmat
  8. I think you need to read my reply which you have taken out of context again. I did not state as you said what i said was exactly what you said in that naamdhari do not utter naam out load in sangat but they DO if they arrange a programme at which ONLY naamdhari can attend. Do you deny that naamdhari do get together occasionaly to do simran?? You also failed to deny the false calim made that naamdhari say gurmantar in the same manner as the jatha.
  9. I do not propose to list all the questions that dynamic_banda has not answered. But it is apparant to anyone who reads my posts that there are numerous questions not answered or side steped. I would urge you to re-read my posts and dynamic_banda's responces. I also look forward to him answering my recent questions :roll: In relation to This is true but if you read the autobiography you will find that Bhai Sahib did Ardas for Bhai Hira Singh who was Gurmantar Heen and was japping a vendatic mantar. Guru Ji listened to Bhai Sahibs ardas and blessed Bhai Hira Singh. To thank Bhai Sahib, Bhai Hira Singh gave Bhai Sahib three to four formulas to convert copper into gold which he obtained from China. But after having the formula and trying it Bhai Sahib's mind kept drifting into thinking about all the maya he could create. He found that his piece of mind became upset and in the end discarded the formula. There is a sikhia in this sakhi that you should not let anything distract you from your bachan bandagi no matter what the rewards of it. We may not know about something but that does not mean it cannot occur. As we all know there are people out there who believe in alchemy. There are also numerous websites. After searching for alxchemy on Google i found http://www.levity.com/alchemy/home.html within 30 seconds along with 623,000 other webpages!!!!!
  10. It is very apparant from your e-mail that you have a deep hatred against the AKJ for whatever reason. You can deny it all you wish but it is very apparant in your posts. It also makes it obvious to the Bibi who asked the original question that your views are biased and should be taken as such. It is also very apparant you have not read or if you have you have not understood Guru Ji's hukam Ne Kapat Kamavoe Mere Gur Sikho As ever you have also failed to comment on any of the points i raised instead went back into your attack against Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji You state that Please eleborate on the Nanksari link back to nirmale etc??? Since I along with sangata from that jatha always tought that it was begun by Baba Nand Singh Ji and that there was no-one before him. Please elaborate. Also i have been told that Nidaar Singh who i am sure you know very well states that the taksali lineage is false and according to his webmaster they are going to protray the falsehood in the forcomming webpage nihang.com So is Nidaar Singh wrong or is it you :?: You also state that: It is apparant then that you do not believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as your Guru. Since if you read Bhai Sahibs biography you will see it state that they received the blessings from our current Guru. I am sure you will have something to say about that as well. Having spoken with a sudhi naamdhari this evenning i can confirm that your statement is pure falisy when you say: Since they do not repeat gumantar with swas but out load when naamdri are together. I am not too sure where you get the falisy from. Also they do not allow any1 other than naamdhari sect into there simran sessions so i have no idea how you and Kaal state that you have attended. Unless you took amrit from them as well!!!!!!! I have no desire to engange in this futile debate since it is apparant that you have no desire to engange in an intellectual debate but rather use each post to discredit Bhai Sahib. Also i am 100% sure you will use my quote above re the naamdhari to compare it how the jatha does not let anyone else in and how we must be alike wow weeee!!!!!! I have stated in my previous postings to Kaal that he can join me for amritvela should he wish and the same applies to you or anyone else reading these messages. As the webpage sarbloh.info states the TRUTH will prevail. I will leave it at that. I am sure Guru Ji themselves will rid from the panth those who are going against tat gurmat and punish them for thier deeds. So there is no need for either of us to continue this debate. If i am wrong i will get my punishment and the same applies to you. I suggest we both do ardas to Guru Ji that if either of us are on the wrong path they Kirpa Karke show us the right path before it is too late. Gur Fateh to you all
  11. Dynamic_Banda You have raised numerous points most surround around your inital aurgument that Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh has created his own panth. However you have nothing to justify this by. It is very apparant that you have not read any of Bhai Sahibs books. If you had you would realise that everything they write about is based upon gurbani and all of thier writings are predominately about understanding gurbani. Other than Jehl Chitta which was thier biography written by Bhai Tarlochan Singh. Therefore i would like you to explain fully on what grounds you have made up the name With your great imagination you should also therefore refer to nanaksari, taksali and other people who follow sadh as of a different panth. So please also clarify who is infact a follwer of the khalsa panth??? So what are your thoughts about Sanata Singh who is allowed to sit on the same level as Guru Maharaj and then announces his hukamnama after Guru Ji's?? Also i would like you to explain the linage of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. You have mentioned about Guru Gobind Singh and bachitar natak which is not what i asked you. So please clarify what lineage you CLAIM Guru Nanak had??? You comment about gurmantar shows your shallow understanding of Bhai Gurdas dia vara The actual shabad referes to how the gurmantar is collected from the from the four jag to be the manatar for kaljug. Also back to your statement re lineage...which human being gave Guru Nanak the gurmantar?? If there is lineage then it would have been given by a person. Finally you state: I presume this can also be said of Taksali, Nanaksari, Akali, Nihang, SGPC, Sadha de Chele etc etc etc etc.... That is the main problem with the panth that rather than individuals improve on thier own rehat they are too busy putting other jathebandi down. So please either provide me with logical answers to the above questions or class me as stupid and not reply to me so i too can stop wasting my time on this forum ps i have responded to Kaals request of a PM and await his reply to a meetinf in Bradford. Dynamic_Banda feel free to join him since it appears that you know each other. C u there :?:
  12. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh... it looks like i have made this debate flourish but as stated in my initial e-mail most of the comments made are falsehood. To answer some of the points made in particular by Kaal and by Dynamic_Banda Firstly Kaal in your post you have clearly demonstarted that you have not had the gift of naamdhird from the panj pyare since you state that: This is a common misconception of the technique and unfortunately i cannot correct this misconception only the panj pyare can I agree with (for a change ) when you say: But that will only happen if your previous karam allow it. In the same way to take amrit your previous karam need to allow you to obtain that gift. I would not say or even think that other panj pyare are fake but you need to look at how some amrit sanchar ceremonies are conducted. As we all know it is the panj singh who collectively make up Guru Ji so when it comes to giving the amrit ablakhi amrit di daat why does only one or two of the singhs give the amrit. Correct me if i am wrong but was not the reason for panj chue in the mouth eyes and hair not so each of the panj pyare woukd administer this? If you agree with these points then it is logical that there are other steps missing in some amrit sanchar. I am def NOT saying that those who take amrit elsewhere are not amritdhari but it needs to be borne in mind that all jathebandi have different forms of amrit sanchar. The taksal differs from nanaksar who differs from Akali who differ from SGPC who differ from the nihangs. To take the nihangs as an example they say that if dasam granth is not parkash at an amrit sanchar that amrit sanchar is invalid. also they will not gie a bibi khanda da amrit they just give bibia 'amrit' made with a kirpan reciting jap ji sahib. For further info see http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/guru22.html Therefore you cannoy just attack the AKJ for being different you need to attack all the other jathebandi as well. BUT who is right and who is wrong??? If you disagree with the jatha that is your choice but does not allow you to slate them and ignore what other people are doing. I also disagree strongly with your statement that: You are more than welcome to join me and like other singhs i would not do saas ghiras but we can sit together and do simran and read bani should you wish. With regards to Dynamic_Banda points you state: This is correct from Bhai Sahibs time during there final years. Prior to Bhai Sahib not being able to control doing saas ghiras in sangat simran was not done out loud on the stage. Since this method of doing simram started in Bhai Sahibs last few years it has continued within in the Jatha. It is NOT done now to cover up the gupt recitation of naam. I know there are people out there who dsagree stongly with how the AKJ do simran but if they get raas what is the problem? If you disagree why go to thier rainsbhais? With Guru Ji's kirpa there are programmes at vertually all Gurdwarae on a Sat night. All of us are pratan since we have no idea what previous janam we have been through. Via bhagti we can know where we where and who we where in our previous life. So how do you know who Bhai Sahib was in thier previous life. It is very easy to make up a lineage but with the truth there is no linage. It just appears. I know numerous people use the lineage aegument but if you think logically then you are dissing Guru Nanak in that who was before them where did thier knowledge come from? With Guru Ji's kirpa you can obtain the gian of a thousand years, therefore having no linage does not wash. Also Bhai Sahibs relogion is no different from yours or mine it is Tat Gurmat I have never said that: Please provide me with a quote from a speech done on the stage, a pamplet or book which states that 'AKJ amrit' is the onlt Amrit. Those in the jatha know that it is not AKJ amrit but Guru da Amrit given by panj pyare.It is other individuals and jathebandi propogating falsehood so as they are not questioned as to why all panj pyare do not administer amrit? Why they do not give naamdhrid? As i said before if you disagree that is your choice. The funny thind is that both of you say you have had naam dhrid yet you are stopping this bibi from doing so WHY?
  13. sorry but i forgot to correct another falsehood propgated by Kaal in that naam dhird comes from naamdharis. This is complete falisy since Naamdhari jaap naam out loud hence why they are also called kuke. They do not repeat naam by saas giras and also when they take amrit they are not given naam dhird. So as i stated before it is concerning to see individuals allowed to post any falsehood they like on this site...... :shock: Since Kaal sates he knows most of the AKJ in the UK perhaps he would like to have this discussion in person at the next rainsbahi in Bradford so i can clear up all the misconceptions he has. But he may be too busy with his girlfriend as stated by his other posts on the thread re sikhs having boyfiends/girlfiends :wink:
  14. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.... it is a shame like other threads on this site that the question asked has not been answered instead other unintellectual comments have been made. I know that Kaal states that he has been pesh to panj piare who advise devotees how to jaap naam as Guru Ji instructs by saas giras but his posts do not reflect that this is true. He appears to have very minimal knowledge on this topic which an abhiaasi would have. I do not normally post on such boards but since there appears to be very few people who actually know what they are talking about it left me with no choice. Yes by some the method of showing the devotee how to jaap naam is known as naam dhird which basically means instilling naam inside you. The first point is that it is not AKJ amrit that we are talking about but Guru Ji's amrit. The singhs who do seva at amrit sanchar usually held at AKJ rainsbhai are adhering to pratan rehat maryada which many other people have discarded due to tring to speed up the amrit sanchar. There is nothing special about naam dhird which other panj pyare should also be showing devottees. As mentioned earler all that naam dhird reffers to is a method shown to you by the panj pyare of jaaping with every breath which is what Guru Ji's hukam is. Yes they do stop people joining them at amrit vela who do not know how to do abhiaas by sas giras for the simple reason that it distracts others when there is someone in the room who does not know what they are doing. It would be like playing football with someone who had no idea what he/she was doing. If someone has made the effort to fet up at 2am and travelled to meet with other gursikh he/she wants to ensure that they get full lahha If you disagree with my comments that is entirly your choice but that does not distract from the truth that all panj pyare should be giving amrit ablaki naam dhird All i would tell phen ji is to listen to Guru Ji and her heart. Her father should be proud that his daughter wishes to take amrit and also wear a keski as Guru Ji has ordered. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has written numerous books via which questions such as these are answered. If you have a desire to find out the truth i suggest you read those books. I hope this answers some questions rather than creating more!!!! :?:
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