Only five

ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈਂ ॥ एक सिव भए एक गए एक फेर भए रामचंद्र क्रिसन के अवतार भी अनेक हैं ॥ There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being; there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਅਰੁ ਬਿਸਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਔ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਮੂਹਨ ਕੈ ਹੁਇ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਤਏ ਹੈਂ ॥ ब्रहमा अरु बिसन केते बेद औ पुरान केते सिम्रिति समूहन कै हुइ हुइ बितए हैं ॥ There are many Brahmas and Vishnus, there are many Vedas and Puranas, there have been the authors of all the Smritis, who created their works and passed away. ਮੋਨਦੀ ਮਦਾਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਅਸੁਨੀ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਅੰਸਾ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਬਸ ਭਏ ਹੈਂ ॥ मोनदी मदार केते असुनी कुमार केते अंसा अवतार केते काल बस भए हैं ॥ Many religious leaders, many chieftains of clans, many Ashwani Kumars and many degrees of incarnations, they had all been subject to death. ਪੀਰ ਔ ਪਿਕਾਂਬਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਗਨੇ ਨ ਪਰਤ ਏਤੇ ਭੂਮ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਭੂਮਿ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਏ ਹੈਂ ॥੭॥੭੭॥ पीर औ पिकांबर केते गने न परत एते भूम ही ते हुइ कै फेरि भूमि ही मिलए हैं ॥७॥७७॥ Many Muslim preceptors (Pirs) and Prophets, who cannot be count ed, they were born out of the earth, ultimately merged in the earth. 7.77. http://www.sridasam....lish=t&id=64774 guru prmysru eyku hY sB mih rihAw smwie ] gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae || The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all. ang 53 gur pwrbRhm eykY hI jwny ]2] gur paarabreham eaekai hee jaanae ||2|| one sees the Guru and the Supreme Lord God as one and the same. ||2|| ang 887

edited

I think the act of not saying anything shows more than saying something on how much anyone respects nidar's cronies. Nidar tried to make a fool of Kalyug with his weak and not well thought out response. Not to add the feeble minded insults he included, shows he had no merit in the first place. Also the Jathedar of Sri Hazur Sahib can be seen in a video, directly telling Nidar that he has made a fatal mistake and nidar in a weak voice, saying hun ji. Only an ugly and no merit person would deny what happened to him on video tape.

Yawn....boring someboyd was not taught reasoning in elementary school.

Just to comment on one section of the response to Kalyug Singh, the nidar crew are very confused. They state the following: There understanding of Bhai Gurdas ji vaar is wrong. IF we were to accept their interpretation of the vaar, then Bhai Gurdas ji would have contradicted himself because he says the following in a different vaars: vwihgurU gurU mMqR hY jp haumYN KoeI] vaahiguroo guroo ma(n)thr hai jap houmai(n) khoee|| His Guru-manta is Vahiguru, whose recitation erases egotism. siqgur purK dieAwl hoie vwihgurU scu mMqR suxwXw] sathigur purakh dhaeiaal hoe vaahiguroo sach ma(n)thr sunaayaa|| Becoming kind, the Guru recites true mantra Vaheguru for him. Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj gave the Gurmantar to the Sikhs of Vaheguru. And here is more from a different source from Sri Sarbloh Granth that states against nidar's thinking and doesn't make Bhai Gurdas ji Vaar fall backwards on itself, which nidar does. Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji states in the ‘Sarab Loh Granth’ that this mantar ‘Waheguru’ is given to the Khalsa by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, so that the Sikhs of the Guru can contemplate upon this true mantar and merge into the Timeless Being. The text of this instruction is as follows:- swr mMqR cwroN kw cwr ] vwihgurU mMqR inrDwr ] klp klp pRB AKCr khI ] sRI gur nwnk jwpXo shI ] inj Awqm pRmwqm drsXo ] cwr klp mih mMqR srsXo ] sw mMqR pRB Kwlsh dInw ] vwihgurU pd pwvn kInw ] Saar Mantar Chaaro ka Chaar Waheguru Mantar nirdhaar Kalp kalp prabh akchar kehee Sri gur nanak japeoo sehee Nijh atam prmatam dhrseeo Char kalp meh mantar sarsheoo Saa mantar prabh khalse dheena Waheguru padh pavan keena The four fold divisions (within the Hindu Dharma) have four separate mantaras. (Of them all the) mantar Waheguru is supreme. With great thought and imagination the Primal Being uttered word. Sri Guru Nanak (got people to) contemplated upon this true (mantar). (With it) one can experience the presence of the Primal Being within the soul. It is the summation of the four separate mantar. This mantar, the Primal Being bestowed upon the Khalsa. The word ‘Waheguru’ was thus sanctified. Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib is telling us that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj contemplated on Vaheguru and Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars are saying the same. The vaar the nidar crew present is much deeper, but for his own selfish reason's, he refuses to recognize this and his cronies...well I'll won't comment on them....lol

That sexually fustrated comment was very shameful of you. But then again you have a pic of Niddar up....lol...it doesn't surprise me after seeing who you idolize.

He was hoping no one would pick up on it and people will just let it slide.

I already responded to your top part. YOu find SS post worrying.....really big guy. What about SPN? Wait kdsingh80 can't mention spn in their true light or at all on other forums because then other members can show people what they are truly about. The one site (SPN) that is out against Gurmat, kdsingh80 will not call sad. Does that really make sense. I'm not going to continue this further with you. If you want others to speak politely, then first learn how to respect others. Your at least in your 30s i guess. I don't think you need to be told this, but I will tell you just in case you don't know this very simple lesson in life. Respect is earned. I hope in the future you keep your sad and worrying comments to yourself. Thank you, Mr. SPN.

You are one snake. You have been out against Sikhsangat for a long time. LIke in this thread, yelling to Kalyug to start posting here instead of Sikhsangat about this topic. Did your bosses at SPN tell you to do all of this? Seriously get a life and stop attacking Sikhsangat. There are many genuine members there. Unlike SPN your boss, where all they do is insult Gurmat and Gursikhs. You and your bosses need to stop foaming at the mouth.

If you want to talk about attacks, first look at your own hand. How many times has Sikhi been attacked and is still attacked where you are most active, SPN. Fools run that site and SS has to deal with some fools that come from SPN for self interest on to SS. If there is one or two posters that keep yelling the same thing, that don't mean all believe in that. But on SPN all the so called elite idoits agree dishing out an athiest form of Sikhi. Where is your halirious post about SPN and it's posters. But you don't hestitate to attack SS.

When has posters labeled every poster as RSS agent? This topic of Daljit Singh Nirmala came up now and the posters are labeling him as RSS because hes bowing down to a woman that is a RSS member. Then you have that fool clarity constantly going on about stuff. If anything your here to throw mud at SS. It's halirious how you lurk in the corners.

This is the kind of behavoir that got you caught for harassement on Sikhsangat. No joke this guy was caught for harassment. And then he was also caught on Sikhsangat for disrespecting Guru Sahib. The mods had no choice but to delete this creepers comment. Stop creepering people and get off the net. Again im not making jokes here. It's all true.

At the end you can take the pseudo scholar dalsingh 101 take on this or take Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa. So dalsingh 101 when are going to harass another person on Sikhsangat and then again get put under moderation.

Then what about the time when Maharaj disrespected a grave. If everything Maharaj does is a Hukam then there is nothing wrong with disrespecting a grave. But Maharaj was testing his Singhs to see if they stick to Gurbani and speak up. When Maharaj pointed his feet to the Kaaba was that a Hukam? Bhai Mani Singh ji was in the crowd forsure. Satguru sent out the call to get the sangat all together on 1699. Bhai Mani Singh ji would be there, along with other Gursikhs. Also there is two sides to Hukams and test are one sided where the Sikhs have to complete. Hukams are two sided because Maharaj completes them in form and the Sikhs follow them.

Actually you have a faulty logic by saying it's a test (1699). If it was a test then your saying Bhai Mani Singh ji failed not me cuz i don't say it was a test. What I said is that it is a Hukam of Maharaj. Test and Hukams are two different things. Maharaj used both and we can't say what is for one is for the other.

Point to us where this sakhi is coming from mr. histical account seeker. So we can get the account as to what happened and not to what you want it to be. Give the name of these two Singhs, what year it happened. If you want eye witness accounts for Maharaj's Hukam on 1699, then give proof of an eye witness account of the above. Why the double standard? But here just like on sikhsangat you run, when your caught in your foolishness, let's see what you do here. When Maharaj over the years issues Hukams the Hukams are to be followed and he delivers them. In 1699 when he took his sword out that was a Hukam being issued by Maharaj. Over the years Maharaj does test his Sikhs, but the test are different from Hukams and those with an ounce of Gurbani know this. When Maharaj disrespected a grave, he was testing his Khalsa. When Maharaj said keep hair uncut, that was not a test, but a Hukam. Do you see the difference!!!!! When Maharaj says I will get one SIngh to fight 125 000 then that is not a test, but a Hukam. When Maharaj tells you to stand infront of a gun to test it, then its a test on the person. Take your foolishness back to SPN. They gave you their collars and these should stay at the nastik site.

You call it a test. Do you know Bhai Mani Singh ji was in sangat and other Gursikhs were in the sangat at that time. By you calling it a test then Bhai Mani SIngh ji failed the test because he didn't give his head. Do you want to add anything else that slanders Gursikhs. Satguru Hukam was at play on 1699 and there was no test. The chosen ones, self elects came forward with there head in hand. By your understanding your caling Satguru a lair. Say one thing and then do another, a fake Guru. Bhai Lehna ji went to eat the corpse and Satguru changing the corpse into something else doesn't make him go back on his word. Satguru would have went back on his word if he did not make Bhai Lehna ji eat and stopped him half way to the blessing. This means when a Sikh follows the Guru, then what a Sikh might see as dead will be blessed if he completely follows Satguru. Satguru takes care of those that follow him completely. Do you get it!!!!! Satguru changed a corpse into a blessing, then he has no problem taking heads and then giving the KHalsa form. This is not on what Satguru can do or can't, but on follow Gurbani as Satguru wrote it. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and Shabad Guru are one form that act out the Hukam in the same way, but in different forms. But nothing is contradiction between them, so Guru Sahib can't say one thing and do another himself.

There is no doubt on Sants mind on what took place. Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa says in an interview that the sword of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Sahib Ji Maharaj cut the heads of the Punj Pyare. The interview is up on youtube. Satguru is not like those that says one thing and does another or goes back on his word. If these historical account searchers can say Satguru never asked for heads with proof then it never happened. Until then we know Satguru asked for heads and these historical account searchers should put down their dubious ways and contemplate over Gurbani as to what Satguru is.

I dont write here much, but this is completely uncalled for. N3O Singh, you should not let such people become mods, that can't respect someone, that did a great thing for the KHALSA PANTH, This Sikh killed a man that put many peoples lives at jeopardy and killed innocent people. Answer this one question, are you a cult follower of the fake master Niddar that attaches Singh to his name? All the Dals have kicked him out and stilL lost individuals follow his thinking. What a shame.

Tell us how a suicide bombing is according to Sikhi. Everyone else is brain dead except for you right. Let's hear your reasoning behind this one and see how sound it it in Sikhi terms. I hope you don't play games here and say its on you to explain otherwise because it's not me whose calling other brain dead.

Actually that's how you want my writing to be protrayed. Read my post before you start throwing around words that stand for nothing I have said. how many goats..... part is speaking of those that perform jhatka for the meat only. And don't pretend like they don't exist. And if i had a real problem with Jhatka, i would have gone to the root of the source and made a remark toward Sri Hazur Sahib, where Jhatka is done openly. Seriously read what i write before making asumptions. I not your enemy here regarding Jhatka. And the Sant ji part shows it is not neccasary to attain warrior spirit. Some need it and some don't need jhatka to attain warrior spirit. Give it a rest, just because I don't agree with your view on openly eating meat, does not make me a deciever and man with a hidden agenda, with bad intentions. If you waant to prove something wrong then attack the person's writing, instead of putting words in others mouth and then accepting them to say yes i did when they said nothing of the sort. Your last sentence, just shows you really don't care for the practice of Jhatka and it's true form, but just like eating the product of it(meat). And who said I wanted to stop the Jhatka tradition. Just amazing, how many false accusations you are making here. Well i hope you don't take this to heart and actually try to understand things for what they are.

You have not taken into consideration how Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji starts off the Hukam. Here is the Hukam and i'll make bold what is very important to take in, when intrepreting the Hukam. Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform Jhatka and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat. (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 110) This one word that is in bold in the first sentence changes everything that comes after it. The fact Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji said take Amrit and then UPON this go hunting means do it in this order. Not at your own wishes. Understand the context i used the word 'regular' your taking it out of context. Sikhi has a Saint side and a Soldier side. The Saint comes first and is followed by the soldier side. The soldier can be intrepreted into two ways, whether that be using the pen or the sword or both. Jhatka has been in practice by others for a long time. It was not started by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji in the Panth. Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji times the tradition of jhatka was practiced by the Sikhs along with going hunting, Nirmal Panth. In the final Hukams of establishing the Khalsa Panth, Sikhs take it as a Hukam to take Amrit first and then practice hunting and other task, including Jhatka(the Hukam provided above of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji). Just like a person who has not taken Amrit cannot be part of Punj Pyare, there is Hukams for Jhatka and hunting. Gyani ji is aware of the fact that Jhatka is a old tradition. Please understand the context in which Gyani ji is using the word civilian. Just like i used the word regular(then added big gutted) for those that want to eat meat and not perform the art of shastr training of hunting and jhatka or taking Amrit from the Punj Pyare. Do we allow those that have not taken Amrit to be part of the Punj Pyare? In the same way Guru Sahib put hunting and jhatka secondary to taking Amrit. This strenghts the warrior spirit. Gyani ji is not saying Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji differentiated between Sikhs, but is using 'civilians' as a way to speak of those that want to eat meat, but have no intentions, whatsoever to take Amrit or if taken Amrit then no intentions of hunting or Jhatka. The meat is only a product of the the true practice Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji wants us to carry out(hunting and Jhatka). Meat is not the core practice, and is of litle importance to when speaking about warrior spirit and attaining this warrior spirit. As a whole meat is looked down upon by the same people who adovacate Jhatka is to be done, because it lowers spirituality, which is the first reason why we are even here on this earth(bhagati). The Warrior spirit is brought in to protect the dharma(spiritual side and the freedom for everyone to practice as they wish). Even the warrior spirit can be a block in the spiritual side, if practiced without the Saint side. Saint side comes first, and holds most importance in Sikhi. Read this, extracted from the article provided on the first page of the discussion: 'From the writings of Principal Teja Singh, a vivid Sikh academic who often criticised British involvement in Sikh affairs, we learn that the ritual of Jhatka was banned by the British: The Guru introduced this idea of Jhatka among his followers, which being incorporated later on by Guru Gobind Singh among the baptismal vows prescribed by him is still insisted on by Sikhs as a mark of their liberty. It stands for freedom of food, which was maintained as long as Sikhs were politically free. But with the coming of the British it was suspended for us, and we are still waiting for the day when we should be again free in the matter of food. (Sikhs as Liberators, page 5)' Amrit comes first and then practicing the Warrior spirit. The Blessing of the Guru is what gets us to sachkand. Otherwise everything is doen in vain. 'Conclusion Jhatka is an ancient Kshatri ritual which the Sikhs have practised since the times of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji and was reinforced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.'

yeah I agree with you on the first paragraph. And second that's why i put regular in quotations it's for a reason. I was specifically speaking to the Singhs that just want to eat the Jhatka meat and have no intention of ever doing jhatka themselves and they still call it a Sikh act. Yeah thats what you believe and I believe what i believe. You intrepret Guru Sahib Hukam one way and i do it one way. The Taksal say Jhatka is used for survival needs. So to say the whole Panth accepts it, is just not accepting reality. My jatha, hahahaa....don't have one. I say your belief is irrevelant. If a Sikh has no intention to do Jhatka and go hunting(like Guru Sahib Hukam) himself ever and still eats it, then it's all about the tongue. Tell me why there is a prescribed way to kill an animal and for vegetarian food there is nothing. I'm not getting into some meat vs vegatarian debate, but atleast accept the fact it stands for something. When practicing Guru Sahib Hukam then do it properly. No farms around in a certain country is no excuse. And your the one here attempting clever tricks to say eat meat whenever you want. Maharaj put it in context and you completely disregard this context. Those partaking in the eating of the jhatka animal should have the true intentions of one day picking up the art of hunting and jhatka themselves. Otherwise, consider yourself a 'regular' big gutted, toungue following Sikh. Food is to survive, no need to go out of your way and buy jhatka. The same people that say jhatka is alright are saying it lowers spirituality, so in this sense, just buying jhatka is going out of your way. Performing it has a bigger purpose. Which you seem to forget when it comes to eating it. Same goes for you. Jathas like Nihang, Taksal, AKJ, Niddar Giddar crew, Nanaksar, Darshan Laal huggers, the blue crew, then the rest all discard Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji's Hukam(each one of them have their own Maryada). Only follow what they chose. And I'm not the one bringing up the Sri Akal Takht Sahib Hukam, it's your associate and your the one in support of it. I'm looking at Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Hukam and it does not at all say what the Sri Akal Takht Hukam say, so it's obvious, Guru Sahib Hukam is higher. It's not hard at all. It's you who are taking Guru Sahib Hukam out of context. I have said those that practice jhatka in the true form are doing nothing wrong. is it really that? I take it as those that practice the art of jhatka, but don't follow up with it, like actually going to war when it's needed, like right now, are just doing it because they love the taste and maybe they like cutting off heads of goats. Makes it an easy target, legs held, faced tied with a rope. Nothing wrong with the legs held and face tied with rope, but their no reaction to todays crisis of Sikhi speaks volumes, to what are they dedicated more too. It just becomes a ritual for that person. But for those that actually take on battles and perform this art, then it's called Sikhi. And Sant ji example was an example where all Sikhs don't need(as in to get warrior spirit) to practice Jhatka and still can take on armies that out number them and don't run or hide or faint at the sight of blood or other horrifying seens. There was Nihang Singh(True Nihang Singhs not just dressed as one) fight along side Sant ji, so this just tells me how much you want to distort what i say.

You are not reading the Hukam in the context. Look at what Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji is saying first: ‘Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting.' This is a condition(must take Amrit) placed on those that want to perform Jhatka. Then Guru Sahib goes further and gives the order of going hunting. Then further Guru Sahib give another order, with how to practice this order: 'Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons.' Here comes on how to practice this 'Perform Jhatka and eat goats.' 'Do not even go near Halal meat.’ (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 110) Look at the context, which Guru Sahib say to eat goats. It has nothing to do with the 'regular' Sikh, who has taken Amrit and those that have not. It has everything to do with those that practice the warrior spirit, by going hunting and those that will fight in protection of Sikhi in the battle field. This is a Hukam for gaining a warrior spirit, BUT first take Amrit(which means have the discipline of a Saint-soldier) and then practice the art of hunting and Jhatka. Here listen to what Gyani Thakur Singh ji say about Jhatka and his words say the same thing as Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam, but Gyani goes into more detail. The internationally renowned Sikh preacher Giani Thakur Singh Ji, a student of Damdami Taksal, explains the tradition as follows: "Nihang Singhs eat Jhatka meat because of their traditions. The Guru allowed this tradition of Jhatka to be practised within his army and by his soldiers; it was not for civilians to eat.[/b] Maharaj said to them that if need be you may Jhatka an animal and eat it, not just goats or chickens but any animal you may find in the jungle. The Nihang Singhs of today still follow this tradition. When performing Jhatka on a goat, first the goat is bathed, then Japji Sahib and Chandi Di Var are read. One Singh stands by the head of the goat and upon the final lines of Chandi Di Var being read, ‘Those who sing this divine ballad will be liberated from the realm of life and death’, at this moment the goat is decapitated with one blow and the soul of the goat is liberated. The goat itself lowers its head to receive salvation”. (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di Var Viakhya Part 25) I answered your question, with a question that shows your biased view toward the fact of just eating meat. Nihang Singh and those that practice Jhatka, do no eat meat for the purpose of eating meat, like you would. Internet warriors don't need the meat. They need fast fingers, and clever tricks. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam is final authority on this issue and a TrueSikh would live by it. You bring up Sri Akal Takht Sahib when you like it and when you don't like it, you discard it, is just a game. It's being an internet warrior. When Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji gave the Hukam for Sikhs to read 5 Banis in the morning, how come SGPC discarded it, and said read three. So you point holds no value here.

Kds, please read the following: The tradition was later reinforced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who upon delivering baptismal vows to the Khalsa instructed; ‘Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform Jhatka and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat.’ (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 110) This above strictly puts the eating of the jhatka meat into the context of warrior spirit. It has nothing to do with allowing 'regular' big gutted Sikhs to indulge into jhatka meat because they can't control there tongue. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam is supreme. May I ask you does Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Hukam hold any value these days to the laid back Sikhs, who are just looking for an excuse to eat meat, but ain't got the ounce of compassion and shakti to perform jhatka themselves. They can't even face what they eat, how are they ever going to understand the true meaning behind Jhatka. Jhatka does not give a Sikh the right to eat meat, but to practice his warrior spirit, which starts with cutting off the head and then eating the meat of it. This is not about which sect is doing what, but is about what excuses people bring up for themselves to justify there wrong actions using Sikhi.