singh2

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php/topic/47254-video-purpose-and-content-of-krishnavtaar/

posted Today, 04:27 PM

View PostPanthic Updates, on 28 September 2009 - 02:38 PM, said:


ref: http://patshahi10.or...ures&Itemid=108



A great and timely video. Well done lamba ji. You are doing an excellent work to expose the enemies of Guru gobind singh sahib who are traitors among sikhs.

It is gathered that heretics of kala afghana, missioanry and Darshan Ragi gang led by notorious foulmouthed Gurcharan jeonwala had come to Gurudwara in Rouchester, New york on Sept. 16, 2009. Earlier darshan ragi had been to that place twice to spread his balsphemy.

This was second visit of Gurcharan jeonwala also.

Sangat of this gurdwara had found loopholes in the blasphemy of these people. They were ready to confront this Gurnindak this time.
He was carrying a Hindu Granth also to mislead ignorants that Dasam granth is a copy of this hindu granth.

The following is a brief detail of what questions and answer seesion took place there.

1) Sangat asked jeonwala that three banis of Nitnem are from dasam granth sahib. Does he accord recognition to those as Sikh rehat maryada recognises that. He tried to fool around by saying that SGGS ji is complete and then why we need banis from Dasam granth. he was asked not to beat about the bush and reply in yes or no as Sikh rehat maryada recognises that. he said that he does not recognise these three banis. Sangat asked then why does he come here? We do not recognise you as a sikh.

2) AS jeonwala said that Dasam granth is a copy of Hindu granth and he was showing this to sangat. President asked him to show where is Benti Chaupoai sahib in that Hindu Granth. He could not reply to that and then he started floundering.

3) Then he was asked to show ardas in this Hindu Granth. he failed to answer to that also.

4) He was told that charitropakhayn is written in third person style in which a minister tells stories to his king. Then why he is attaching charitras 21,22 and 23 to a real happening in Guru gobind singh's life. He replied that there is name of anandpur in that charitra. he was told likewise they could show him 50 other towns having the name Anandpur. he had no answewr to this. This exposed his lack of understanding the charitropakhyan in totality.

3) He was asked if he was asked by akal takhat to recognise nitnem banis from Dasam granth, will he abide by that. he said he would not. Sangat asked then why he was wasting their time by coming to Gurudwara time and again. He should spare them of this blasphemy.

This is what happens when sangat is briefed about the motives of these thugs who are enemies of kahlas panth.

The battle episodes are written by guru sahib completely new. There is a lot of misunderstanding prevailing on this. People have not read Dasam granth and make comments. For example people think that krishna avtar is in praise of krishna. But it is not.it is completely incorrect assumption.

Krishna avtar has there sections bal leela , ras mandal and yudh parbandh. Yudh parbandh is completely new, forms largest part ,not from any hindu text and fully written by guru sahib. Hero of krishna avatar is Kharag singh and not krishna. Kahrag singh fights a war of righteousness against krishna and floors him.

ਜਬਹਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਭਜਤ ਨਿਹਾਰਿਓ ॥ ਇਹੈ ਆਪਨੈ ਹ੍ਰਿਦੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਿਓ ॥ਅਬ ਹਉ ਆਪਨ ਇਹ ਸੰਗ ਲਰੋ ॥ ਕੈ ਅਰਿ ਮਾਰੋ ਕੈ ਲਰਿ ਮਰੋ ॥੧੫੨੯॥
When Krishna saw Shiva running away, then he reflected in his mind that he would then fight with the enemy himself; either he would kill the enemy of die himself.1529.


ਜਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਉ ਨਿਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਚੀਪਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਨਕਾਦਿਕ ਹੂ ਜਪੁ ਕੀਨੋ ॥ ਸੂਰ ਸਸੀ ਸੁਰ ਨਾਰਦ ਸਾਰਦ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੈ ਧਿਆਨ ਬਿਖੈ ਮਨੁ ਦੀਨੋ ॥
He, whose name is muttered ever by Brahma, Indra, Sanak etc.; He, on whom Surya, Chandra, Narada, Sharda meditate;

ਖੋਜਤ ਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਸਿੱਧ ਮਹਾਮੁਨ ਬਿਆਸ ਪਰਾਸੁਰ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਚੀਨੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਖੜਗੇਸ਼ ਅਯੋਧਨ ਮੈ ਕਰ ਮੋ ਹਿਤ ਕੇਸਨ ਤੇ ਗਹਿ ਲੀਨੋ ॥੧੫੩੧॥
He, whom the adepts search in their contemplation and whose mystery is not comprehended by the great sages like Vyas and Prashar, Kharag Singh caught him in the battlefield by his hair.1531.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਸ਼ੱਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਹਨੇ ਤਿਹ ਕਉਨ ਗਨੇ ਕਬਿ ਸਯਾਮ ਪ੍ਰਬੀਨੋ ॥ ਕੰਸ ਕਉ ਕੇਸਨ ਤੇ ਗਹਿ ਕੇਸਵ ਭੂਪ ਮਨੋ ਬਦਲੋ ਵਹ ਲੀਨੋ ॥੧੫੩੨॥
That Krishna, who had knocked down many enemies with skill and killed Kansa by catching him from his hair; the name Krishna has been caught by his hair by the king Kharag Singh; it seems that he has avenged the killing of Kansa by catching his hair.1532

ਚਿੰਤ ਕਰੀ ਚਿਤ ਮੈ ਭੂਪਤ ਜੋ ਦਿਹ ਕਉ ਅਬ ਹਉ ਬਧ ਕੈ ਹਉ ॥ ਸੈਨ ਸਭੈ ਭਜ ਹੈ ਜਬ ਹੀ ਤਬ ਕਾ ਸੰਗ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਜੁੱਧੁ ਮਚੈ ਹਉ ॥
The king then thought that if he killed Krishna, all his army would run away; with whom then he would fight?

ਹਉ ਕਿਹ ਪੈ ਕਰਿਹੋ ਬਹੁ ਘਾਇਨ ਕਾ ਕੇ ਹਉ ਘਾਇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਖੈ ਹਉ ॥ਛਾਡ ਦਯੋ ਕਹਿਓ ਜਾਹੁ ਚਲੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੋ ਸਮ ਸੂਰ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਹੀ ਪੈ ਹਉ ॥੧੫੩੩॥
To whom then he would inflict a wound or from whom he be wounded himself? Therefore, the king set Krishna free and said," Go away, there is no other warrior like you."1533.

krishna avtar, dasam granth

I have read Rehatname by Piara singh padam. It has very good information.

At the end of chandi charitra part 1, it is siva. Literally Siva wife of shiv ji i.e. Durga. But in shabad " Deh Siva bar---" it is a metaphor for akal purakh.

Creator of akal takhat is Guru hargobind shaib and not Guru hargobind singh

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...t=0&start=0

I have observed that of lately Sikh philosophy network site is turning into a kala afghna mouthpiece. There
are some die hard anti Dasam Bani people who have been made mentors on that site. They slander bani of Dasam granth on one pretext or the other.

They also interpret SGGS ji in a totally different way. They write that there is no gurmantra and naam simran in sikhi. New meanings of Amrit vela are being given.Any effort to combat that is nipped in the bud.

Does anyone has experience on that site. Please share that here.

V. Jacquemont was a French who toured Punjab in 1831.He was a scientist who wrote his observations in the form of letters that were tarnslated in English.

During his travel he met Ranjit singh in person on two days.The following is from his writings

"After a mile or so around the city( Lahore) over bad roads and through gardens, fields and ruins, we arrived at a camp of regular infantry ; this was Ranjit's bodyguard. We alighted near some beds of poppies, larkspurs and wall flowers which surrounded a cottage made of straw in the Chinese style with a little tent of red and white stripes in front of it; this was rajah's headquarters. Group of sikh officers and servants were seated in this rustic garden; we were conducted to the seat of the King which was no more magnificent than that of the rest. Ranjit was seated on a cushion in the sun on one of the garden paths; a servant standing behind him chased away the flies with the end of his waistband. on His right and left were a dozen of sardars squatting on a persian carpet near rajah. I saluted him when some paces away raising my hand to my forehead and he replied in the same manner but with rising.I advanced to the carpet and prsenting a nazzar of 21 ducats was commencing a complimentary speech, when he bade me sit down quite near him; and, without waiting for the end of my discourse, asked me how i was and if i was not tired by the journey, and assured me how pleased he was to see me. He spoke in Hindustani which understood very well, and he quite understood all the frowning pharases which i had prepared for the commencement of the interview e.g." i had often heard of his renown, his courage, and his wisdom. i had often seen Bonaparte and i for some time i had desired to see Bonaparte of the east( here ranjit bowed most affably) . All my desires were fulfilled in finding myself in his presence."

Excerpts from :The Punjab a 100 years ago

Sikhs consider chandi as kirpan and do not venerate any physical entity.Especially when Dasam Granth is very clear on this.Go by the scripture and not by stray opinions.

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥
O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.


ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥
चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥
She struck the demon with that Chandi, the devourer of demons (that is the sword).

ਕੋਪਰ ਚੂਰਿ ਚਵਾਣੀ ਲੱਥੀ ਕਰਗ ਲੈ ॥
कोपर चूरि चवाणी ल्थी करग लै ॥

Then

ਲਈ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਦੁਰਗਸਾਹਿ ਵਰਜਾਗਣਿ ਭਾਰੀ ॥
लई भगउती दुरगसाहि वरजागणि भारी ॥
Durga held out her sword, appearing like great lustrous fire;

ਲਾਈ ਰਾਜੇ ਸੁੰਭ ਨੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਐ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥
लाई राजे सु्मभ नो रतु पीऐ पिआरी ॥
She struck it on the king Sumbh and this lovely weapon drinks blood.
It broke the skull and face into pieces and pierced through the skeleton.


Chandi Di vaar, Dasam Granth

Read dasam granth sahib and you will know it. The story of dusht daman is from Surja parkash and not from Dasam granth.

Chandi episode is a very lengthy one in Markandey puranas. Guru sahib has taken only eight chapters out of 130+ chapters and then rewrote those to adapt to sikh philosophy. First four chapters in original puranas were dedicated to praise of Durga. Guru ji completely left those out.

It is a very big mistake if any sikh says that Guru sahib rvered Durga or any otehr demigod.

I have panth paraksh with me. Its teeka is done by Baba santa singh. But i do not find any reference about additions and alterations done by Bhai Veer singh ji. Am i missing something?

As far as i know Bhai veer singh ji had got panth parkash printed in 1914. When Dr Balwant singh dhillon compared the printed version of Bhai veer singh ji it was found that there were footnotes only.

Is it editing or noting opinion. I am not sure about panth parkash but Bhai sahib spent 14 years studying Suraj parakash of Bhai Santokh singh ji. He did not edit it but gave his opinion as footnote.

I am not sure about panth parkash.

I have two questions

1)Can you tell us who was poet shyam if not Guru ji

2) You claim having read krishna avtar.When you say krishna avtar is translated from bhagwat puranas. What does it exactly mean

Absolutely. One should read below


ਦੇਵ ਭੇਵ ਨ ਜਾਨਈ ਜਿਹ ਬੇਦ ਅਉਰ ਕਤੇਬ ॥:
Dev bhev na jaanayee jih beda or kateb:

The mystery of God is unknown to any demigod and it is also indescribable by the scriptures -- Vedas, Qran, Bible, and all others

(Guru Gobind Singh Jee, Jaap Sahib )

ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨਿ ਜਿਹ ਬਸਤ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥
चरन सरनि जिह बसत भवानी ॥
The goddess Durga takes refuge at His Feet .

akal ustat, dasam granth


ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਾਰਦਾ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਮੰਗਲਾ ਮ੍ਰਿੜਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਿਆਮ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੇਤ ਹੋ ॥

Somewhere Thou art the divine speech, somewhere Sarada and Bhavani, somewhere Durga, the trampler of corpses, somewhere in black colour and somewhere in white colour.

ਕਹੂੰ ਧਰਮ ਪਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਠਉਰ ਗਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਜਤੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕਾਮੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਲੇਤ ਹੋ ॥

Somewhere Thou art abode of Dharma (righteousness), somewhere All-Pervading, somewhere a celibate, somewhere a lustful person, somewhere a donor and somewhere a taker.

ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਬਿਪਰੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਗੁਨ ਅਤੀਤ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁਰਗੁਨ ਸਮੇਤ ਹੋ ॥੪॥੧੪॥

Somewhere Thou workest in accordance with Vedic rites, and somewhere Thou art quite opposed to it; somewhere Thou art without three modes of maya and somewhere Thou hast all gldly attributes.4.14.

akal ustat, dasam granth

Chandi di vaar is in praise of akal purakh and not Durga.Durga is a fighter and is shown as fighting demons.

The main purpose is to infuse warrior spirit by imagery of battle scenes.Secondary point is to tell people that she is not an independent power but creation of akal purakh.

Fauji was insisting on a debate with singhs at toronto.

Here is a reference for that. A singh from tronto has done that already with Fauji/ International akali.
He is again challenging them right in Toronto. Fauji, are you listenting.

http://forums.panthic.net/index.php?showto...35435&st=20

International Akaali, there is a Singh in the Toronto area named Davinder Singh, he recently wrote a small booklet called : ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਵਿਰੋਧ ਕਿੳ?

Either you or 'Khalsa Fauj' already has a copy of this booklet, it was handed out at one of the Nagar Kirtans in Toronto. Davinder Singh has already asked one of you to read the booklet and then get back to him. He has not heard back from either of you yet. He is open for ANY debate. In fact, he has successfully debated many of your Kala-Aghani chamchays in Toronto and Faridabad. Feel free to contact him (his number in on the booklet) if you are serious about this.

You are talking about khande di pahul. have you taken khande di pahul? if so why are not you reading prescribed
banis? Had you read Jaap sahib you would not have raised such silly questions.

Kalyug ji's language is thousand times better than what you use.

mool na boojheh aapnaa say pasoo-aa say dhor jee-o. ||3||
They do not understand their own roots; they are beasts. They are just animals! ||3||

ang 751

Why do not you teach that gurmat to us by replying to our queries. Pay attention to below

Dhaar khayl chaturbhuj kahaa-i-aa.
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.

ang 1082

Will you guys delete above from SGGS ji.



You are not only beaten but crushed.

He had come to this site with a special mission and that was to malign scripture of tenth master. He met a miserable end here and is thoroughly exposed of his shortcomings.
His mission is not learn but to indulge in propaganda.

What is there to discuss with people who do not know whether Dasam Granth was written before creation of khalsa in 1699 or after that inspite
of the dates being written in.

What to discuss with people who attach charitra 21,22 and 23 with life of Guru sahib even though composition is saying
loudly "ab pakhayan chaitra likhayat."

What to discuss with people who are not able to understand the myths and misquote dasam granth saying that this granth says
that God created world from the ear wax. You are also one of them propagating such lies.

What to discuss with people who are not able to understand symbolism and propagate that Bhagauti means a hindu devi even though
puranas( original source of this writing) mention this word frequently and nowhere it earns a devi.

Take their help to answer the above on this forum.

You guys say there is no gurmantra, no nam jap , no karma, no reincarnation and even no soul in sikhism.
What araths a person will do if he does not believe in nam simran.

ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਹਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਵੀਚਾਰਹਿ ਇਹੁ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਕਾ ਆਚਾਰੁ ॥
Naam na cheetahi sabad na vichaarahi ih manmukh kaa aachaar

The conduct of the Manmukh is that he does not think of the Divine Naam, and he does not contemplate the Shabad

ang 508

Your araths will also be of same type. A bunch of nastics and old communists masquerading as sikhs.

Fauji

If we do not know. Please tell us. Moderators are not stopping you from giving meanings.
They are moderating so that you are not able to post vulgar language.

Now this midget scholar has vanished in thin air. That is what he does when he is not able to forward
any constructive arguement. he needs to learn the difference between apple and orange first.

Fauji

This is on ang 862 of SGGS ji. Now you are trying to disown this shabad also.
If you are not able to comprehend tat does not mean the shabad is not there.

Read whole shabad


chhakaa 1||
First set of six. ||


raag gond mehlaa 5 cha-upday ghar 1
Raag Gond, Fifth Mehl, Chau-Padas, First House:


ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

sabh kartaa sabh bhugtaa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
He is the Creator of all, He is the Enjoyer of all. ||1||Pause||


sunto kartaa paykhat kartaa.
The Creator listens, and the Creator sees.

adristo kartaa daristo kartaa.
The Creator is unseen, and the Creator is seen.


opat kartaa parla-o kartaa.
The Creator forms, and the Creator destroys.


bi-aapat kartaa alipato kartaa. ||1||
The Creator touches, and the Creator is detached. ||1||


bakto kartaa boojhat kartaa.
The Creator is the One who speaks, and the Creator is the One who understands.


aavat kartaa jaat bhee kartaa.
The Creator comes, and the Creator also goes.


nirgun kartaa sargun kartaa.
The Creator is absolute and without qualities; the Creator is related, with the most excellent qualities.


gur parsaad naanak samdristaa. ||2||1||
By Guru's Grace, Nanak looks upon all the s