Keerat Singh

You will find a teacher at Jawaadi Taksal which now forms part of Ludhiana. If you can travel to Jalandhar, learn from Bhai Shaminderpal Singh ji.

Just to add to this discussion as Bhai Mani Singh ji is mentioned, please look at Gurbani Path Darpan by Mahant Surjit Singh from the Sato Gali Taksal. They do pronounce words in accordance with the language they come from. For example masakat is pronounced with sasa pair bindi. Furthermore adak is pronounced in the word. In the Damdami Taksal equivalent, adak is also pronounced. I do not believe all unkars and sihari are pronounced. A deeper understanding of the language is needed when it comes to pronunciation. Languages change and develop over time, as we have seen with the entrance of lala pair bindi in Punjabi, this has been introduced in order to preserve the correct pronunciation of words.

You need to speak to the Mahant for Darshan. I dont know what the current Mahant is like, but previously you would need to speak to the Mahant. The title "guru was given to all teachers. For example even today, you would refer to your music teacher as "Guru". My understanding after meeting Mahant ji many years ago, they do not accept Ram Rai had a separate Gaddi as satguru, but he was seen as the Vidya Guru of the Mahants and therefore the title Guru continued. You will note that the first Mahant does not have the title Guru but Sri Mahant. They also believe in Guru Gobind Singh ji who came and killed the bad Mahants. The Karhaa where the Mahants were killed and hole created to call each Mahant to the place Guru Gobind Singh was, is kept by the Mahants. There was land dispute going off years ago, I do not know if they still have control off that section. From their website it does not look like the current Mahant has changed the above view.

Guru Gobind Singh ji appointed a Mahant to do seva at Anandpur Sahib when they left. A Mahant in charge of a Gurdwara is nothing new. I have met Sri Mahant Indiresh Charan Dass ji. A great Sadhu with lots of gian.

I have been to the dera aswell. The Dera has two handwritten saroops. One is the saroop taken by Ram Rai to Delhi from which Aurangzeb raised the meaning of the shabad Mithi Musalman kee. If you are from a samparda background, you wont see anything anti Sikhi at the dera.

Just to add to this discussion. My teacher has told me that the Bhai Mardana Rabab was at Patna in Bihar. Unfortunately the instrument was burnt with other relics in 1984. However he describes the instrument as being very small/folk type of Rabab. Like Tsingh stated, there seems to have been an evolution in the type of Rabab being played from the 1st to the 5/6 guru. Maharaj kirpa an attempt will be made to make a copy of the instrument.

I have read that there is saroops without Ragamala aswell. I don't know which saroops they are. But the majority of saroops and especially ones signed by maharaj has Raagamala in. The saroop Ram Rai took to Delhi and from which the pangti mitti musalman ki was questioned from also has Raagmala. This saroop is now at Dera Dun. There is another handwritten saroop there with Raagmala in. a Saroop at Varanasi with Guru Tegh Bahadur jis signature also has Raagmala. The Damdama Sahib Saroop has Raagmala. There is over 15 hand written sarooops around The area of Varanasi with Raagmala in.

From a practical point of view, it is unrealistic to believe that a group of people found every SGGS in India and added Raagmala. in the summer of 2000 I was travelling through India and went to Madhya Pardesh. A mahapursh told me of the sangat at the city of Burhanpur. The people of this city are not Punjabi. They become Sikhs when Guru Nanak Dev ji visited. When Guru Gobind Singh ji was travelling towards South India they reached Burhanpur and was welcomed by the Nanakpanthi. Maharaj stayed there for a number of days and the Sikhs took Amrit. SGGS was left with the Sikhs. The SGGS was completed at Agra (im sure this is recorded by Dr. Ganda Singh. The SGGS is signed by Guru Gobind Singh. Raagmala is in this saroop. The people of Burhanpur have no link with the Sikhs of Punjab. How would some person get to the middle of India, find this small group of Sikhs and manage to convince them to add Raagmala in. Its absurd. There is handwritten saroops in South Uttar Pardesh, in Nizamabad, Varanasi etc, all these old saroops have Raagmala in them. Practically its absurd how a band or people (or person) managed to get to all these places, find all the saroops, convince the Sikhs that Guru ji forgot to add Raagmala and then added Raagmala into the saroops.

It is uttam purakh. Another point which those who adhere to Gurbani Viakaran fail to mention is that nearly all of Guru Tegh Bahadur jis shabads to do not follow the rules of Vaikaran. the main reason people are against Raag Mala is because they say it does not follow Gurbani Viakaran. Such an argument has no weight.

Was there meant to be one maryada as presented by the SGPC and advocated by all samparda? Everyone claims their maryada is the correct one. If an udasi could have been left with control of Sri Anandpur Sahib when Guru Gobind Singh ji left, Sevapanthi samparda flourished at the same time as did the Nirmala's, it makes one think whether the guru intended for their to be one maryada as the SGPC are trying to implement. Jin tu jata so grisht udasi parvan. Parvangee is not within our hands or the SGPC. Two separate maryada is accepted as being parvan in the shabad above, unity I believe will come in finding common ground and accepting differences in our paths.

Viakaran uses spellings to explain how gurbani should be translated and pronounced . The word Ramdas comes in gurbani to refer to Guru Ram das ji, sect Ramdas and also the servants of Rab ji. The spellings of Ramdas Ramdas Sarovar nate - There us no unkar under Ramdas Jogi Jati Basino Ramdas - There is no unkar under Ramdas (this is referring to the followers of Ramdas) Ramdas Sodhu Tilak deeya - there is no unkar under Ramdas (this is referring to Guru Ramdas ji) Why is it that these three words have different meanings, yet all three has the same spellings? Viakaran will not provide the answer. People who follow vaikaran say that Ramdas sarovar nate does not refer to the Guru Ram Das, they say it refers to the lords servant. But if you look at the shabads which refer to the lords servant, they have an unkar under the sasa. For example: Asee jugat Nanak Ramdas - Such is the way, O Nanak, of the Lords Servant. If Ramdas sarovar nate was to mean the Lords servant, surely it would be spelt the same as the above shabad. But it is not. People who follow Viakaran do not believe that by bathing in Ramdas sarovar, sins are erased. They therefore do not follow the trend in shabads which have an unkar under which refers to the Lords servant. It gets even more confusing, the following shabad has an unkar under, but it refers to Guru Ramdas ji, Sohe Ramdas gur bal, bhan mil sangat than than karo. Why does this shabad have an unkar under? There is other shabads by the Bhatts referring to Guru Ramdas ji with an unkar under. Viakaran provides no answers for this. There is no set spellings for the word Ramdas which would indicate what the meaning is for each shabad with the word Ramdas.

Poota mata kee asis, nimak na bisaroo tum ko har har .... The word bisario has an oora with unkar under. Therefore according to gurbani viakaran the translation is first person and pronounced with a bindi. But the correct translation is: O Son this is your mothers prayer, That you may never forget the Lord Har Har, If viakaran is followed the translation becomes: O Son this is your mothers prayer, That I may never forget the Lord Har Har, Viakaran clearly does not work in this shabad. The translation makes no sense if we use the word "I" rather than "you", DDT as far as I understand do not teach viakaran. Although viakaran is great to understand shabads, the above example is proof that it is not final in understanding shabads as being made out.

Again I will say do not dismiss viakaran. However those people who do not believe in Raag mala just because it does not fit with viakaran will have a hard time explaining shabads which do not fit with the rules of viakaran. Rab ji is not bound by limits, therefore viakaran has been left with flaws intentionally by the guru. After reading vaikaran, you may learn rules of grammar, however in order to understand what maharaj is saying, eventually you will have to seek guidance from samparda arath. If you don't you will not find any achievement in your spiritual journey. This is the conclusion I have come to. One example I can give where Prof Sahib Singh clearly says that viakaran does not always work is the note he writes in Jap ji Sahib on the line ahran mat, ved hateyar. According to viakaran, where ved has an ankar under the dada, the meaning is singular meaning knowledge. But Prof Sahib Singh admits that where the word comes as singular it does not necessary mean the arath do not refer to the veda or Religious books. He clearly writes that you have to consider the on going shabad and meaning behind it. There are many other examples. Atleast Prof Sahib Singh was honest enough to admit this. Today's missionsary paracharks are hiding this fact, knowing full well tha Samparda parcharak who dismiss viakaran wont catch the flaws in viakaran.

viarkaran simply gives us some understand where is a word is for example plural, singular, guru referring to himself etc. What viakaran does not do is explain the antreev arath or give any explanation behind the shabad. If you read Prof Sahib Singh's arath you will find plenty of examples where he says that arath do not make sense if he follows viakaran. Im not saying viakaran is useless, however everything should be considered and Prof Sahib Singh had to accept that the rules did not follow on some shabads. On the one had we say tera ant na jaye likhiya, on the other than we are saying Guru da ant is up to viakaran, I have also read books on viakaran. Where do the rules on viakaran not allow you explain shabads through history and stories?