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raagrishi

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  1. To be honest i respect bhai randhir singh a lot. my grand dad and him were good friends and my grand dad was the secretary of the gurdwara they founded many years ago in model town ludhiana. however, in those days raag mala was read. what i am suggesting is which has been mentioned by many that people are going to have different views on this topic. If people have different view points and have different stances. so be it. may be this too is maharajs game that is being played with us? who knows? all i know is it is topics like this that are spliting the panth. The first time i heard of any debate in raag mala it shook me totally. how can any one ever think there is a discreprency in my Guru? If there is a discreprency in the Guru that i bow down to, if there is a discreprency in the Guru that has given me everything and that I will die for then obviously that Guru is not perfect and I am bowing down to something fake. I believe sikhi to be the truth hence on a spiritual sense leaving all the academic arguements to one side, i am not inclined to believe raag mala is false. Are we higher than the Guru now to know what is false and what is not? Is that the stage we are at where we seem to think we know more then others? Its mindless blasphamous topics like this that really make me think how messed up the panth is at times. We know nothing, we have no avastha (spiritual level) we have not even tasted simran. we have never practised the path of sikhi as we should have done and automatically we become experts in it and authority to challenge what is bani and what is not. Maharaj has clearly stated Waho Waho bani nirankar hai, tis jevad avar na koi Hail hail bani is Omni Present (Prevades every where hence is God), There is no other like it. If this is the state and stature of Bani, then we are commenting on what is God and what is not? How the hell and when did we ever reach this level? I am sure bhai randhir singh had his reasons and i respect that only because of his kamai and the amount of seva that he did do, but there are many other mahapurakhs and bhram gyanis who disagree with his statement on raag mala but respect his kamai at the same time. Baba Nand Singh, Baba Ishar Singh both Rare and Nanaksar, Baba Puran Singh (Kericho), Sant Attar Singh, Sant Teja Singh, Baba Harnam Singh (se kehneya), Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwala, Baba Thakur Singh, Baba Sucha Singh (Jawadi Takhsal), Baba Karam Singh (Balo Wal), Baba Mani Singh (Smethwick, Birmingham) How many more names do we need? I am not doing nindiya of any group or sant so please do not misunderstand me, all i am saying is that ok we follow examples from people who have been great spiritual leaders of the past, but how can we put disbelief in something in maharaj when we do not even understand ek oankar. what does ek oankar mean im still trying to find out? No one can tell me as no one here has experienced ek oankar. Once we have realised ek oankar we would have experienced everything and we would have merged back into Vaheguru. We have many enemies as it is the musalman, hindus christians etc, why the hell do we continue to fight amongst ourselves. Its childish, it is almost like play ground bullying in a school the way we act. I look at things like this and think whats the point of it all to get involved in events and forums and stuff when people always want to do nindiya of each other. The forums and events are places to bring people near to sikhi and spread love like this forum has been doing. It is not for spreading controversy. So if you have pyar for Sikhi and your Guru, then dont do it. simple. bhul chuk maaf Rishipal Singh
  2. i guess u guys havent heard of bibi balwant kaur from bebe nanak gurdwara birmingham. baba mia singh (nanaksar) and baba puran singh(kericho/birmingham) both said that she is bebe nanak come back. she does seva for the hungry and the poor all around the world and has a charitable eye hospital in sultanpur lodhi. shes truly amazing. shes been recognised also by bhai jivan singh akj
  3. This discussion will go on for ever and ever as people always think they know better than the Guru. However, a problem with the khalsa is that we dont know how to do research. which bir does not have raag mala? apart from the one which made whose creator then died within a few days of making it? The point is that people argue that there was a bir before the kartar puri bir which does not contain raag mala in it. But if this is true it is still irrelevant. Maharaj Shenshah Guru Gobind Singh bowed down infront of the damdami bir which if you do darshan which any one can has raag mala in it. Guru Gobind Singh was not thick. If we say raag mala is not bani, then we say Guru Gobind singh is false as his recitation to bhai mani singh who scribed the damdami bir hence is wrong. Since this is unthinkable then it leaves no other conclusion. I cannot give reasons for why Bhai Randhir Singh had doubts about raag mala. and i wont begin to suggest either. The love story idea is unsubstantiated. Ive read it and dont see how raag mala can correspond to it. it makes no sense. it comes back to again understanding the raag concept and vidiya. We all agree that Damdami Takhsal was set up by Guru Gobind Singh to teach bani and santiya. They believe in raag mala. Sant Bhindranwala stressed its importance. Takhsal have written a book in punjabi called raag mala gurbani hai, its a good book i suggest people read it. As for mool mantra, this is something that i have come across which has been documented by academics such as bhai vir singh and prof sahib singh ji. Guru ji gave us from EK Oankar to Gurpursad, the jap ji sahib form we see today was compiled by Guru Angad Dev Ji who put ad sach jugad sach hai bhi sach nanak hosi bhi sach next to it. the jap ji in its form today hence was put together compiling the bani that maharaj had written. Thats why jap ji sahib is not in any particular raag. it was not made at any one time like sukhmani sahib or anand sahib was. ad sach jugad sach hai bhi sach nanak hosi bhi sach was said in baghdad when the muslims asked who God is. Yes akal takhat sahib didnt read for a while, but durbar sahib does and did always. so did the other takhats. The reason why akal takht sahib didnt was because of confusion. Also we forget that Guru Granth Sahib is not just a spiritual granth but its a raag granth as well. every raag granth that has been made contained a raag mala. Why should Guru Granth Sahib be any different? The british saw raag mala as a way of putting mischief in the panth as they knew raags were not understood and also that the style of playing raags and note structures had changed over the years. and to be honest it seems like they have won since 100 years later we are arguing about it. before this turns into a heated debate as it did do a few years back lets just end it here with what was finally decided. If you want to read raag mala then do so, if not then dont. This way peoples maryada or way of belief is not attacked and we may come closer to uniting under one flag. Other wise this topic can go on for ever. Lets try and understand ek oankar before we argue about atare das bis.
  4. pyario This topic has been beaten so badly that it makes me sick. To be honest as vir said why are we discussing when we dont understand the rest of Guru Maharaj. The meaning of Ek Oankar is not even known. But I would like to put my views on raag mala as far as i understand it and i hope it can clear any misconceptions. The simple reason why we have started to question raag mala is because no one knows and understands the classical system of raag vidiya of the time. we have stopped learning the theory of raag vidiya and stopped singing and playing raags and instead have started playing hindu tunes or tunes that we feel like. im not saying this is wrong or right but merely saying that this is the main reason why we have forgotten what raags are thus why we do not understand raag mala today. Secondly, since when was raag mala meant to be an index of the raags in Guru Granth Sahib? Does japji sahib have a heading saying mahala pehla? So this heading arguement does not hold water. As for kartarpuri bir and damdami bir, they both contain raag mala. there is no bir that has not contained raag mala. There was one that was made, but the person who made that bir suffered a tradgic death after wards. These are all the things on the face of it. also five sants got together at the sarovar at durbar sahib. They wrote on a two peices of paper. one saying raag mala gurbani hai and the other raag mala gurbani nahi hai. The one that floated it was requested to maharaj in ardas would be the correct answer. raag mala gurbani hai floated raag mala gurbani nahi hai sunk. The raag mala explains the raags of the classical system as a whole with a combination of south indian raags and the north indian raags, it shows how raags have developed over time. The reason how we know that this was written by the Gurus is that raags which they have created are mentioned in raag mala like asa. The Gurus created this raag. Also who said there were 31 raags in Maharaj. Some counts go as far as saying 64 when you count mishrat raags. 31 are the main headings, within them there are many thus showing how many variations there can be. Within Gauri raag there is bani in 12, Gauri Purbi, Gauri Guararie, Gauri Mala, Gauri Cheti, Gauri Bairagan, Gauri Deepaki and Gauri Purbi Deepaki top name a few of them. hence not only does raag mala talk about the variations but the bani in Guru Maharaj as well shows its significance. Plus Maharaj in raag mala has used raags as metaphorical statements. E.g. Raag Ek = Raag literally means measure but it also means colour and love. There is only One Colour and Love - Vaheguru. so when maharaj says raag ek sang panch bairagan, sang alapai ato nanadan. It says that the five senses 8 pahar = nandan, worship this one raag = vaheguru in the sadh sangat. This is an example of how raags have been equated with vaheguru. The when maharaj says pritam raag bairo. Bairo is seen to be the main raag of the morning. so when maharaj says pritam raag bairo. First remember the primal, = vaheguru. The feeling of raag bairo is very serious and bhagati raag raag, it shows it shows stature and greatness hence you can see how such imagery can equate to the imagery of Vaheguru. Im not saying that you should believe what im saying, in the end Guru has given you all a brain. But just think, If Maharaj is the treasure of excellences and is the greatest of all. who are we to think there is a mistake in just because we dont understand it or it looks different to some thing else. who has given us the right to question the authenticity of the greatest thing on earth. when we say waho waho bani nirankar hai, there is no two ways about it, gurbani is God and then at the same time we say yeh its true apart from the last 1 and a half angs. In the end sadh sanagt ji im a moorakh. Please forgive me if i have offended. das Rishipal Singh
  5. whats truth is truth. everytime i religion has come down it has brought the message of truth but it has been caught in bad practices. if some of it seems to resemble sikhi its just because the truth still prevades in it and not that sikhi has come from there. The Quran is used a symbol of knowledge, where ever you get knowledge from you take it as it is talking about God this is the message that the Gurus were trying to give. The orriginal sikhs were called nanak panthis and then slowly slowly we saw the need to become our own distinct form. so even at the start, those that were affiliated with Guru Nanak be they from Muslim or HIndu backgrounds were seen as the followers of Guru Nanak. Hence this negates the linking we any religion as the Nanak Panthi was is seperate. From Nanak Panthis the term Sikh came and from Sikh the Khalsa. Bhul Chuk Maaf Rishipal Singh
  6. vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ke fateh excellent post on mardana but i would just like to clarify one point. u said that Guru ji has written two ballards in praise of mardana? I heard in katha from a few vidvans that in fact that was mardanas own bani. Maharaj has always prommised mardana and said to everyone that mardana would not die. he was born to a family that had many children but all died at very young ages or at birth. when mardana was born his family were so pessimistic that they named him marda, that he is going to die as well. When Guru Nanak asked his name and he replied my name is marda, Guru Ji said i dont like that name, Im going to call you Mardana, as your not going to die, you will be amar i.e. immortal for ever. Hence in bani Mardana is amar and when we do matha dhekh to Guru Granth Sahib we are doing matha dhekh to Mardana. Secondly, Guru Nanak also said to people there is no difference between Nanak and Mardana. People say that sikh changed its essence over time that the Guru was high and the rest low and then Guru Gobind Singh took amrit him self and made "apai Gur Chela" he is the Guru and the disciple in one (in the words of Bhai Nand Lal goya.) In the same when when he said Mardana and Nanak are the same, the chela (disciple) and the Guru became one because Mardana has reached this avastha. Mardana also used to preach to others and was believe it or not a Guru figure to others, although im not sure to how many he was a Guru to. In that we he would spread the word of Guru Nanak and never called him self a Guru. It was the way others refered him as being. Where Maharaj says theres no difference between him and Mardana this is evident in the bani where its heading is Salok Mardana, and Mardana writes two saloks with both signed nanak at the bottom. As Guru ji denoted the title to him as being the same as nanak. Bhul Chuk Maaf Rishipal Singh (London)
  7. vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ke fateh I have limited knowledge of simran. i guess those who have done a bit of simran and when I say done a bit it does not mean the odd vaheguru here or there will be the best people to comment on such a topic as have already been quoted from citations comming from the life of Sant Attar Singh etc. Please take time to read the below it may take long butI believe it useful to the discussion. It is from Baba Wirsa Singh in Delhi. The first time I read his literature it touched me greatly. Please take a look. its from www.gobindsadan.org Meditation Meditation is magnificent power. With meditation, you gain the desire to serve and the ability to attain; you develop compassion, fearlessness, divine wisdom, renunciation, love, and freedom from the cycle of births and deaths. Meditation allows us to meet with the King of our spirit. To meditate is to become deeply silent, to keep listening, listening, listening to God. To listen is to become lost in God, perceiving God in all of creation. Then one is merged with the Great Reality. No worldly pleasure can compare with the sweetness of this communion. There are many yogic postures and methods of meditation, but even by practicing them you cannot attain God unless you feel the longing of love. God is Love, and God is too great for any method. It is God who pulls us to meditate, and it is God who teaches us how to love Him. The only method of meditation that works is to offer God constant love. At first, continually focus all your scattered attention on whatever form of God you worship—your Isht, such as Jesus, Krishna, Siva, Durga, or Gurus. And because it is the nature of the mind to wander, we can concentrate on God by repeating God's Name. The energy which is scattered among all our weaknesses will be collected; negative thoughts will disappear and truth will be revealed in our mind. The more we meditate, brining the attention back again and again, the sooner it will return to its Home. Once it comes back Home, it will listen and it will rest. Then there will be only peace. Begin like this, and then God will show you the way. Make no demands, except for One: "Oh God, make me as You want me to be." Early in the morning, when you first arise, thank God and do a little bit of meditation. Go deep inside, concentrating all your awareness on God. Then the whole day your mind will be concentrating on God; nothing will bother you. As you love God and practice meditation, you weaknesses and bad habits will be driven out, and love and truth will be revealed, as if dust were being cleaned from a mirror. In deep meditation, your awareness of yourself ceases. You are unaware of the passing of time, and you do not become tired. Your breathing diminishes. People may be beating drums or shouting around you, but you will not hear anything. You soul rises above the body; it maintains just enough connection to keep you alive. Over time, very gradually, the inner light, divine wisdom, vision, and truth will awaken in you. Your Isht will enter your heart and start loving and talking to you. As the Sikh Gurus say, "sometimes you laugh, sometimes you cry, and sometimes you become silent, but you care for no one except God." You will become detached from worldly things, for you are always connected with the Truth. You will not care if people are looking at you or laughing at you for you are looking only at God, absorbed in the bliss of God's Love. As you continually look toward God, your state of mind will keep changing. Eventually your Isht will disappear, and you will see only God everywhere. You will recognize that everything is happening according to God's orders. God will speak to you in the form of light and be visible everywhere as light. Then you will not need to sit in meditation with your eyes closed in order to be aware of God. You will be joined with God at all times. Whether you are walking, eating, or talking to someone. You will truly feel, "Tohi mohi, mohi Tohi" (You are me, and I am You). You will remain in the word, doing your worldly duties, and you will be always happy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Naam Nam is like an ocean; service and charity are like streams. We are seeking something small, but with the help of Nam, oceans of priceless jewels await us. Reciting Nam (God's Name) is a way of thanking and praising the Nam—the omnipresent, timeless Creator. It is a path to God for everybody. When you recite Nam and love God without any motives, God will cleanse your mind, there will be great light in your heart, and your whole family will be blessed. Nam will heal your mind, eliminating all negative thoughts; only positive thoughts will remain. The hidden joy and love and fearlessness in you will become manifest. Actually, it is not that God wants our praises. The effect of Nam works on us. Our body is just a house where we live. Our life is governed by our karmas—the effects on our life of our sanskars, our habitual thoughts and actions from this life and from previous births. Our karmas are like great waves which are not under our control. Nam breaks those waves. As we recite Nam—with our tongue, with our mind, with every breath—those waves start to break here and there. You may be worrying as usual—"What will happen?"—but as you recite Nam there is a small break in that train of thought. You feel, "It will be okay." But at this stage you are still reciting Nam only with your tongue. Your thoughts and awareness are not on Nam, and your mind returns to it's old patterns. As you go on reciting Nam, you will experience a little light inside, a brief moment of samadhi (spiritual absorption). But then the mind starts running away again with great speed, and the little bit of light disappears. Then longing for God may begin to grow in you, although it is very faint at first. As you are singing or reciting Nam, you may experience a brief communion with the Nami. To become closer to God, you should focus on your Isht, that form of God in whom you have faith. At first, the Isht is just a theory in your mind, but gradually it's presence becomes a reality. Slowly that Power gives confidence to your mind and you begin loving that Isht on whom you are trying to concentrate your attention. It takes a long time, but gradually you will feel the presence of your Isht within you. Once you feel your Isht inside you, through the power of Nam, you will begin to see that your Isht is controlling everything outside you as well. You will see your Isht pervading everywhere. As you keep on chanting Nam, whenever you begin to feel anger or greed or ego, the feeling does not last inside—it moves aside. Why? Nam is washing away the dirt of your past tendencies; the light of divine wisdom is burning up your past actions. Gradually, you cease to feel anger or greed, and you feel that you are nothing great. You become very humble. All ignorance ceases as the light of Nam manifests fully. If you reach this stage of enlightenment through continual recitation of Nam and concentration on the Nami, you will see only God everywhere. Like God, you will feel neither enmity nor fear. You will recognize that it is the Nami who is sustaining and controlling all of life. Nam will make your actions bright and will give you clear inner vision, truthfulness, renunciation, desire to help the needy, and the power to do anything, for the Power of the Nami has manifested in you.
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