W..

what a wonderful post. I agree with everything you say, but I think Obama is just a bad as all the rest.

Update: I have been really hardcore, I try not to let even a lustful thought enter my head. It is very hard to do where I live (most my classmates are from LA/Orange county/etc) and dress absolutely crazy.... I am finding it extraordinarily hard to do this... unless I just don't look at the girls or maintain eye contact... and I have noticed that that helps. I dont think anything crazy, but still the lust is like instantaneous... guess I just never noticed because I never cared to. I am having to change my TV habits as well... all the good shows have boobs so it looks like its discovery channel all the way from now on

I am happily married and have a healthy relationship with my wife. Lust does not end with marriage, it just takes on new forms. I guess also I am using the term lust in the judeochristian sense... so not just limited to sexual desire. I am hoping that lust can be subdued by forming good habits. These yogic methods and such.... I do not discredit them, but for me I think its just going to be a constant struggle... kind of like learning to get up early in the morning... I am just going to have to unbuild the bad habits the same way a built them... by constantly doing new good habits over and over again....

I am trying to beat one of the vices a year over a period of five years. This is my first one that I am attempting. I will let you know what I learn.

Thanks Mods can close topic now

I have found that some sikhs consider Gurus to be God. Is this the minority or mainstream sikh? I looked on boards but could not find, if this has been discussed please post link to avoid redundancy.

Staying busy and staying positive. If either one of those things goes I have noticed lust creeps in. A priest once told me that lust takes over when your life gets out of balance, its more of a symptom of something else being wrong.. since its easy to "escape" reality by indulging in lustful thoughts/actions. I have also noticed that too much guilt over lust actually INCREASES lust... so if you catch yourself lusting or whatnot... don't worry... happens to everyone... just move on to some other activity. Hope that helps -W

dalsingh... you seem to really have a thing against white people... that is your problem not mine. If some white guys give you hell they are wrong, if I was there I would stop them if I could... but you need to get a grip with this racism. "typically white and pretend it isn't happening" "Whites have a reputation for lazyness and focusing on pleasure rather than the job at work. No wonder minorities are reluctant to hire them in their organisations" Replace the word white with desi... and you would be offended I think. Almost sounds like racism... but it can't be! Also, I am from America... if you live and grow up in America then by all means give your opinion. If not, can you really comment on it? If you want to demean white world as the source of all problems, go ahead... it really doesn't bother me at all. Your loss not mine. I have noticed Europeans seem to be experts on how stupid americans are... strange since they don't live in this country. White people are lazy and obsessed with pleasure... strange coincidence you speak english and live in an english speaking country... seems like the country should be poor and crappy since white people are all so incompetent.. Seems like I must be lazy as well.. I mean I am white. Weird that I am studying 12 hours a day for medical boards... I am permanently leaving this board. I wish you the best of luck and hope you can learn do drop whatever resentment you are carrying. God Bless, W

Its absolutely there. I am not denying it. When it is there, it is absolutely wrong and disgusting. However, you absolutely have to be careful hiring minorities, especially AA, because the laws are such that they can take you to the cleaners even if you do nothing wrong. 90% of them just want to work hard and do well, but there are those that choose to use these laws to their advantage. These laws should be changed. I also know that punjabis / desis are always completely fair in their employment methods... i mean its not like they only employ family friends and other indians... Guess what... that is their right. If they only want to employ other indians in their business... who am I to tell them not to. Racism is stupid, but its not illegal. All I want to is a level rule of law, no affirmative action or silly lawsuits trying to artificially fluff up things.

In my experience its not something that can be discussed. Everyone has too strong of an opinion on it. The world is a big place and different parts of the world have different situations. I can only speak from my personal experience. I can just see nothing good about discussing things like that, if I wasn't so stressed out I would not have written it. It will only debilitate into a rant and not contribute to the purpose of this forum. Its not backbone, its respect. I have lots of opinions I keep to myself rather than start arguments that are pointless. I would fight with my fiance 24/7 if I didn't.

Islam needs criticism. Political correctness with islam is allowing it to grow in the wrong direction. Why should non muslims have to tip-toe around the tulips while atrocities are committed against non muslims every day. I think that considering how many people in the world want to speak out against islam but cant because of fear of death... completely open criticism of islam (and all religions) should be allowed on this forum.

*edited* True, but in retrospect it was in bad taste

That may be the case. I am supposed to be cramming for boards right now, so I am just going to put it to rest. At the end of the day there is so much stuff I need to work on with myself and learning about sikhi... something this esoteric is really like researching nuclear physics when I should be doing my algebra homework.... Thanks for the good discussion. I am promising myself I wont check this site again today... so I will leave it at that. -W

I understand your point. Its an argument that I cannot win. Black magic MAY exist. My belief on something does not determine the reality of the situation. I do think that belief in black magic has had a very detrimental impact on the societies in which it is common. When you consider magic to be the cause, you don't look for the source of the problem. I have also noticed that magic tends to occur in poorer, uneducated portions of the world.. ie: Haiti, cuba. Could it not be because those people ascribe supernatural origins to things that just have to do with proper medical care? I see the point you are making. If black magic does exist I certainly hope I do not fall victim to it, but many more people IMO suffer from believing in magic compared to those who are actually afflicted by it. You guys seem very secure in your views and I respect that, so lets put it to rest. You know how I feel, I know how you feel. Good discussion. :-)

I get your point. I suppose me saying it does or does not exist does not prove it one way or the other. It may, but I certainly don't believe it does. I would say this though, encouraging a belief in magic is encouraging something that continues to set people back. Even today people with serious medical disorders go visit people for magic healing and the like. It seems a rather dangerous thing to encourage. I watched this episode of taboo where entire villages of women exist in africa because they are accused of being witches and thus kicked out of their village. Because its black magic, you can't prove that they aren't really witches. So an attitude of "it may be true" is what what allows this travesty to happen... Ever heard of the salem witch trials? Some superstitions are harmless, and some are very dangerous.

Black magic is 100% fake. Not one time in the history of the world has there been any sort of black, white, yellow, green magic. What... cut off a chickens head and throw it on a tree and your friends wife gets PMS.... do you really think God makes things happen because of silly little magic rituals? Its fear, stuff happens... people dont understand.. must be magic! Come on guys, get real.

I took this same thing to my priest one time after a GF had dumped me. What he made me realize was that I didn't want this girl, I wanted God. Sometimes we want God but we don't realize that is what we want. Thats what I think these crushes are... if you really really sit down and think about it I can promise you that you will find you don't want the girl you want something much bigger. Sometimes when I think like that I just imagine if I got what I wanted.... would I really be happy? Crushes etc. are a result of trying to fill a void with "stuff". No matter how much stuff you throw into it it will still be there. My life / relationships with women got much better after I realized this because I can see these desires for what they are and not expect having "the girl of my dreams" to make me happy 24/7. Hope you made sense of some of that... -W

Thanks dalsing. I appreciate the good sentiments. Thats really what I wanted to hear. I guess I need to man up so I can raise my kids confident enough to deal with the people who give them hell. The purpose of this question was to get some feedback and hear of some examples of this working out. This purpose has been fulfilled. Seems like a good idea for mods to close this so it doesn't turn into my personal sob story. N30, thanks for the kind words. I didn't respond earlier because I have some serious problems with 3HO. I realize many 3HO people on this site so I didn't want to get into that issue and thus not get my questions answered. Thanks all, -W

Thanks for replies I absolutely realize some whites are like this. Its BS from whatever side it comes from. Doesn't bother me at all, but whatever. All I can say is that if I ever saw it I would do something about it and I am sorry you took some hell for it. To be honest, I would even be a bit apprehensive about my sister dating a punjabi guy... not because I have a problem with punjabi guys but because I know for a fact their is a strong pressure from most parents to marry another punjabi and I wouldn't want to see her get hurt. If i knew the guy and his family though.. that would change everything. Be careful saying "white people" We are not all the same. We don't all have the same history though. I can understand the apprehension though... what with colonialism and hillbillys harassing sikhs and such... but I would hope that if a guy goes to gurdwara for over a year and is always nice and polite... why not give him the benefit of the doubt? Also, I know for a fact none of my ancestors did this... but some times people just group you all togethor. I know some whites who think all brown people were terrorist... so I guess it works both ways. chatanga, once again that is exactly what i want to hear. Thanks, W

Thanks for the replies. No I have not taken Amrit. I feel that would be a bit premature since I dont even speak punjabi or read gurmukhi (sp?) I have gone to great lengths to learn about the religion. Try to pray japji sahid every morning... etc. The interracial marriages are not a big deal at all where I live (out west). I would say I see like 10 a day, so its not a big deal because of that. I am very used to taking flack for dating a punjabi girl and dealing with overprotective punjabi guys. I am just surprised that the raw hate I experience at Gurdwara isn't going away. It also bothers me that when my fiance used to go with me to the catholic church... she experienced absolutely nothing but open arms and friendliness. For a while I just tried to tell myself I was making mountains out of molehills, but other people besides me have noticed it. The community aspect of religion is very important. I realize this now. How am I supposed to be a sikh, if like 90% of sikhs hate me because I took one of their own. Will my kids be outcast all their life because they are half white? If thats the case what the hell is the point of raising them sikh? Chatanga that is exactly what I wanted to hear. Maybe when I leave this town to set up practice back east the gurdwara there will be more accepting. Thanks for replies -W

Thats my situation. I am the guy. Been going to Gurdwara for over a year now. Just wanna know, has anyone ever seen gora accepted by the community. I want to raise my kids sikh... i have absolutely zero problems with the religion... but it seems very much that I am not wanted or welcome. I thought I should just give it time... but its been a long time. Does anyone know of any situations where this has actually worked? If my kids are going to be treated like I am... why would I do that to them? I don't want to give to many specifics... but I am in med school, come from a well off family, got her fathers permission from the very beginning... so I know it has to be that I am gora. I try to stay chardi kala... but its very draining. I have asked this question, perhaps not so bluntly, on sikhsangat... but I realize now that is a kids site. I thought an older crowd could provide me with better advice. Thanks in advance, and happy 4th to all US members -Wales