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saajan days vidaysee-arhay saanayhrhay daydee. O Friend, You have travelled so far from Your homeland; I send my message of love to You. saar samaalay tin sajnaa munDh nain bharaydee. I cherish and remember that Friend; the eyes of this soul-bride are filled with tears. :cry: munDh nain bharaydee gun saaraydee ki-o parabh milaa pi-aaray. The eyes of the soul-bride are filled with tears; I dwell upon Your Glorious Virtues. How can I meet my Beloved Lord God? maarag panth na jaana-o vikh-rhaa ki-o paa-ee-ai pir paaray. I do not know the treacherous path, the way to You. How can I find You and cross over, O my Husband Lord? satgur sabdee milai vichhunnee tan man aagai raakhai. Through the Shabad, the Word of the True Guru, the separated soul-bride meets with the Lord; I place my body and mind before You. naanak amrit birakh mahaa ras fali-aa mil pareetam ras chaakhai. ||3|| O Nanak, the ambrosial tree bears the most delicious fruits; meeting with my Beloved, I taste the sweet essence. ||3||

i asked if he wrote all of charitropakhyan, i didn't imply anything scholars will hopefully soon figure out which parts are real and fake

i don't understand how you people can justify consuming intoxicants the world knows it doesn't make sense anyhow you're right, narasingha, i don't have enough 'evidence' to *prove* you're wrong, and i don't think most people here right now do either, but what you're trying to prove doesn't even make sense -- that someone can 'groom' their eyebrows but not remove the rest of their hair.. i'm really starting to lose care about this crap anyways.. most people know what real sikhi is, whether you do or not isn't my business, it's upto th e dharam raj and jamdhoots to decide.. you have your fate and i have mine whether you're rss or not doesn't even matter to me, because you're still preaching anti-gurmat propaganda i think you and lalleshvari are once again alone on your opinion of eyebrows, and that's what we're supposed to be discussing, remember? i agree with the other person's post... we're not trying to expose you, you're doing a good job at exposing yourself.. if this is just going to turn into a fight, there's no point in me coming here.. to everyone else here who has genuine love for guru nanak, id like to say, vaheguru jee kaa khalsa, vaheguru jee kee fatheh!!!!!!!!!! :sikhiwink2:

veerjee i understand your concern but the situation today is that, people always tend to look at the bad side rather than the good side -- there are actually quite a few sikhi camps going on right now, there are people doing katha in english, there are new people getting into sikhi, there are some amazzzzing "manmukh to gurmukh" stories -- in so many ways, sikhi is expanding and becoming stronger many sikhs in punjab may be losing their sikhi, but that doesn't matter obviously, quality over quantity is what matters people tend to always point out the bad sides of a situation but they don't look at all of the sikh youth that are doing seva, that are trying to do paat, that are slowly becoming kesdharee, slowly taking amrit -- there may not be as many people turning towards sikhi as turning away from it, but the ones who are turning towards sikhi are REAL and GENUINE sikhs... our generation brings many good promises you could call me an optimistic person but i'm really not, i just have faith in sikhi and i know it will prosper, regardless of what the multitude says or how it seems.. have faith in sikhi, expand your own rehat and understand that sikhi will never be wiped out.

So lalleshvari, are you saying that prior to the Singh Sabha movement's coming into power, men and women sat together in Gurdwaras?

is there any evidence even suggesting that Guru Gobind Singh was actually the one who wrote the charitropakyan/treh charitar?

i think it was guru amar daas jee who set up manji's for preaching sikhi, and he gave a little less than half of those positions to females this was one of the first times that females were given equal status to men -- they were actually allowed to preach sikhi... in many other religions, females weren't even allowed to take part in certain prayers.. i think our coming generation is a lot more open minded, and many of these youth are starting to look at sikhi how it REALLY is, rather than how all of the culture-brainwashed parents have told us... even at sikh youth programs nowadays, i see more girls taking part in doing ardaas and other seva, which wasn't too common a few years back.. hopefully with some time, there will be more female granthis.. and degh servers too :wink:

hahahaha as a matter of fact, i have done research about the rss i'm not trying to "expose" you, most people already know who you are and what you're trying to do, whether they care or not is the question. although they know, they're not worried. and why would they be anyway?

correcting what, jsb? the kirpaan dhaa amrit stuff? you should talk to narsingha about correcting that. another thing i should talk to u about msn !! too bad my msn isn't turning on right now

correcting what, jsb? the kirpaan dha amrit stuff? you should talk to narsingha about correcting that.

nacho chips and chardee kalaa, plz

Many speak of courage. Speaking cannot give it. It's in the face of death that we must live it. When things are down and darkest, that's when we stand tallest. Until the last star falls, we won't give an inch at all! Stand as the Khalsa, strong as steel, steady as stone. Give our lives to God and Guru, mind and soul, breath and bone. Guru Arjun gave His Life, to stand for what was right. He was burned and tortured, five long days and nights. He could have stopped it any time, just by giving in. His Strength a solid wall, He never gave an inch at all! Sons of the Khalsa, remember those who died. Stood their ground until their last breath, so we who live now, might live free lives. A princess is not royal, by her birth or blood inside. But if her family's home is Anandpur Sahib, She'll walk with such a grace and strength, the world will bow in awe. Until the mountains fall, she'll never give an inch at all! Daughters of the Khalsa, in your strength our future lies. Give our children fearless minds, to see the world through the Guru's Eyes. Baisakhi we were thousands, but only five had the courage for dying. Then one brave man, one flashing sword, turned us all to lions. And now we live His Legacy, to die before we fall. And like the five who answered the call, we can't turn back at all. Stand as the Khalsa, strong as steel, steady as stone. Give our lives to God and Guru, mind and soul, breath and bone. The Tenth Guru gave even His Sons, to give the Khalsa life. His Words stand like mountains, against the winds of time, That Khalsa will rule the world, all will be safe in its fold. But if the Khalsa falls, there won't be a world at all! Stand as the Khalsa, strong as steel, steady as stone. Give our lives to God and Guru, mind and soul, breath and bone. Many speak of courage. Speaking cannot give it. It's in the face of death that we must live it. When things are down and darkest, that's when we stand tallest. Until the last star falls, we won't give an inch at all! Stand as the Khalsa, strong as steel, steady as stone. Gives our lives to God and Guru, mind and soul, breath and bone. Sons of the Khalsa, remember those who died. Stood their ground until their last breath, so we who live now, might live free lives. Daughters of the Khalsa, in your strength our future lies. Give our children fearless minds, to see the world through the Guru's Eyes. Stand as the Khalsa, strong as steel, steady as stone. Give our lives to God and Guru, mind and soul, breath and bone. Mind and soul are His alone.....

Hmm NaraSingh, if I lived in England I'd come to the classes myself, but I'm not really in the mood to fly down there for 8 hours, unless you wanna buy me a ticket. Please give me an example of "Talbianistic" ideals that I have? Thanks. I agree with you, bhajee. But you should put emphasis on the SIKHI part, explore their own SIKHI, not manmat.. If we want to call ourselves Sikhs, we should live according to the teachings of the Sikh Gurus. Yeah, Aman Singh, I agree with you.. But in reality, none of these guys are an actual threat anyway. They're nothing to be afraid of.

i listened to it, it's really freaky, but not very clear either i couldn't really understand what he was saying, only in certain parts....and they were laughing and stuff....interesting stuff... i've heard a similar story to this one, don't know if its the same thing... something about the soul of a muslim pir and he begins talking about the greatness of guru gobind singh and how he's the only person that can save us !! :| i don't know if its the same as this though

n30, sant jee said he's neither for nor against khalistan, but he wanted a place in which sikhs wouldn't be oppressed -- he wanted sikhs to be free, without being treated as slaves -- and as far as i'm concerned, india isn't exactly the place where sikhs have been free -- they've been oppressed since they first asked for freedom the idea of khalistan wasn't started by 'fanatics' in 1947 when the Muslim League was given Pakistan, Gandhi & Nehru promised the Sikhs their own land, if the Sikhs would help the Hindus build India back to its original strength. The idea of Khalistan started THEN - because the Muslims were a minority and they received their own land, and just as the Sikhs were a minority, they deserved their own land too... Nehru and Gandhi never kept their promises, and hate crimes against Sikhs continued. 1984 was the height of all baysharmi by the government, apart from the attacks on the golden temple, hundreds of thousands of people were killed, imprisioned, raped, beat up, etc., (and i've read that number was in an encycopedia..) india's also been known to have killed millions of other non-hindus -- christians, buddhists, muslims, and so on.. sant jee may not have been for or against khalistan, but he did want sikhs to be free from oppression, and i don't see that happening in india...

good luck :wink:

pyareo don't worry about these people spreading anti-sikh propaganda they have their fate, and we have ours in the end, truth will prevail !!!! guru ang sangggg

AND BY THE WAY, DESI KURDI.. you might of thought my speculations were funny, but why do you think that even other people have complained against these people?

hahaha NaraSingh -- Guru Gobind Singh was the GURU! He issued KHANDEY-KEE-PAHUL!!! If he knew what these "nihangs" were doing he'd probably come and slap them all in the face. Kalgidhar Dasmhesh Pita Jee created ONE amrit for ONE humankind... not seperate amrit's for men and women

yeah i've read it and been warned by several people who i can trust more than you thus i'd rather believe them their website is obviously twisted, i've even spoke to singhs in england who are a part of their "shastar vidya" classes. they've told me the real crap these people preach.. either way, true singhs know what real sikhi is about and they know when a person pretends to be a sikh, but has ulterior motives.

im glad i made you laugh, desi kurdi... making a gurmukh smile is considered seva to me :wink: :bow: honestly, desi kurdi, you don't know these days.. can't really trust these people.. try reading all their posts and you'll see what i mean.. you don't have to agree with me, haha, but most of the time i get feelings about this stuff and it turns out to be true.. all i'm sayin is i honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were from one of those groups.. even the nihangs in the uk are supported by the rss if i was easily influenced by you 'narsingha', i'd agree with your views, lol

"akali nihangs" don't matter, Guru Gobind Singh Jee does.

it was guru nanak who said "raj karega khalsa, akhee rahey na koee". if guru nanak said it, it's going to happen he may not have meant the actual khalsa panth, he may have just meant 'the pure ones', but who knows

it's not the same thing as christian excorcism actually i know someone personally who encountered a problem as such and her parents contacted the Panj Pyare (a very smart decision), rather than trying out strange hindu rituals (which some lost people might do), seeing how that would obviously lead to nothing. So anyway, the panj pyare actually began to speak to the soul that had possessed this girl (gurmukhs have amazing abilities to do such things, as they've been given endless kirpa from guru jee), it was a type of ghost that was lost and had no where to go, so the Panj Pyare did a sehaj paat and prayed for the soul's mukhtee. After the Paat and ardaas, the soul left the girls body. Sikhs know that there may be stuff like black magic out there, but nothing at ALL is above the Guru - the Guru can cure and heal EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. Nothing - no ghosts/spirits/black magic, etc is above the Guru, or even close to the Guru. dhan guruuuu nanak !!!

lol when guru gobind singh jee maharaj (remember him, guys?) issued AMRIT, he stated that all men and women who take it will be SINGHS, and that both men and women take KHANDE-KEE-PAHUL giving amrit to females with a kirpan is manmat, and that's the bottom line. there is ONE AMRIT, ONE KHANDE-KEE-PAHUL, and no other methods of attaining it except for through the TRUE panj pyare. Not akali nihang whoever. If he does/did that, he's going against Sikhi. We should practice Sikhi and the teachings of GURU GOBIND SINGH SAHIB JEE -- not these 'nihangs' that are tryin to confuse Sikhs, my advice to them is -- TRY A LITTLE HARDER -- because i don't think your goal of spreading anti-sikh propaganda will ever be met truth always prevails in the end