randip singh

You did not ask a single question on this topic and your inability to find any sources is your own fault. Siri Gur Katha is an accepted source and has been published.

err no Bijla Singh.

There was another discussion about this on sikh-akj-sangat.com years ago, and when I asked what academics had confirmed its authenticity I received a torrent of abuse.

I think what I ask is a fair question given as their are so many mischief makers out there.

If you have sources, then post them (especially English ones).

It is if you've been training for almost 20 years. 40 is not old, especially for powerlifters.

I do not powerlift. Haven't for many years.

100 kilo's for deadlift, squat and bench is good for general fitness.

I have in the past, but even then only for short periods and that when I was on the brink of being overtrained through a very hard schedule including weight lifting, bjj, wrestling and hockey. Now I just eat in a way that ensures I get everything from food - works out cheaper as well.

So, you up for training? I'm in London most days.....

Ok let me get this right.

You are only on a vegetarian diet no eggs, and you compete at the highest level in power lifting competitions?

You use no roids and you don't supplement. If this is what you are saying then I don't believe you.

and

Why would I want to come to London to train with you? I have nothing to prove, but you clearly do.

Learn a bit of humility and curb the ego friend.

Use people like this:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/health-and-n...dybuilding.html

as inspiration.

Another little anecdote for you, I see many Singh's coming into the gyms and many believe what you write i.e. they will become big and awesomely strong by a pure vegetarian diet (no eggs). When after 6 months (if they last that long), they are still yellow and skinny and cannot understand why nothing happens, you should write a book for them. Best wishes.

I think someone is getting shaky legs and a stream of yellow liquid running down on the floor.

Legpress boy.

You believe whatever you want. I have met enough internet warriors and real life gimps to last me a life time. I do not take people on the internet seriously.

Take up my offer to meet up then you can judge whether or not I'm massive and decide if I'm a liar.

Yet again, please tell me what you can get from eating meat/eggs/fish that you can't get from a balanced vege diet.

That's poor even for a 40 year old, but since you have joint issues, it's ok. You're never too old to grapple - my teacher is in his 60s, lol. You said you trained in Judo, so it would good to compare techniques etc.

Err yes whatever. It's not poor. It's good for what I need to do. You are talking juvenile nonsense. It is enough weight to maintain fairly good strength without putting pressure on my joints. But hey you would know that if you knew ANYTHING about training.

Back to topic

So you do not supplement?

I can make a really funny joke here, but i'm not a mean guy. I'm leave you to your crazyness.

Take care man

You are a young kid.

I suggest, get some fresh air and get a life.

a book that came out of nowhere is proof? proof of what?

funny no info on what this is where it came from who discovered it how its authenticated etc

cant even access the image files

indeed this is the problem. A lot of the sources are from La-la-land.

Siri Gur Katha - Eye Witness Account Of 1699

#1<http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/38445-siri-gur-katha-eye-witness-a\

ccount-of-1699/page__view__findpost__p__359552>

Posted 20 July 2008 - 08:56 PM

*Siri Gur Katha*

Bhai Jaita Ji’s name shines in the Sikh history like a koh-i-noor diamond.

He made a great sacrifice for the panth. It was only him who brought ‘Sees’

of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji from Delhi. It was him who fought numerous battles

in Guru Sahib’s army and gave shaheedi at Chamkaur Sahib. He was not only a

great gursikh but also a great poet and writer. He wrote Siri Gur Katha

granth which remained hidden from the panth until recently. Even today most

of the Sikhs are unaware of its existence. Bhai Sahib wrote much more but it

is believed that due to wars and persecution it was lost. What remained

stayed in the family of a gursikh.

Luckily, what remained is perhaps the most crucial information Sikhs need

today. In the document Siri Gur Katha Bhai Sahib wrote eye witness accounts

of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji’s Shaheedi, description of Guru Gobind Singh Ji,

account of wars, and most importantly first Amrit Sanchaar. It also

highlights rehat kurehat and some very fundamental beliefs of Gurmat which

many of the Sikhs today hesitate to accept. I am not writing anything on my

own (although it affirmed many of my beliefs) but I will post what it

states. The purpose is for the readers to be aware of this and study it on

their own. I am not trying to start any controversial topic or debate.

Accepting it or rejecting it is the decision of the reader. I won’t post

everything written in it but following is what I understood from the text.

Here is some of what is written by Bhai Sahib:

1) There is no one equal to Guru Sahib throughout ages. Following Gurmat

will bring muktee.

2) “Waheguru†is gurmantar. A Sikh should always recite it.

3) Sikhs are not to lie, slander, eat tobacco, eat kuttha, smoke, drink,

commit adultery, and follow brahmanical rituals.

4) Piercing is forbidden.

5) Always remember Waheguru and be prepared to fight Dharam Yudh.

6) Help everyone who comes to you.

7) Realize that everyone is the child of Waheguru. Reject caste system.

8) Always wear Shastars without which one is a jackal.

9) Never cut or trim hair.

10) Always greet everyone with Fateh.

11) Do not wear “Laal Sooha†and “Nasvaar†clothes.

12) Always do sangat of Gursikhs. Do not intermingle with patits.

13) Worship only Akal Purakh.

14) Always eat the food prepared by Amritdharis.

15) Accept everything as will of Waheguru.

16) Five Kakkars are Kes, Kangha, Kara, Kirpan and Kachera.

17) Always wear dastaar on the head.

Much more is written on rehat but these are enough points. Amrit Sanchaar is

perhaps the most important of all. Bhai Sahib writes that Guru Sahib took

five heads, dead became alive, five banis were recited etc. Here are exact

quotes:

1) Sikhs became alive which is the miracle of Guru Sahib.

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File]<http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&\

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2) Five Kakkars were given to the Pyaras. In the image word "Kes" is missing

which is supposed to be after "Kach".

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3) Amrit preparation begins.

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4) How Amrit is prepared.

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File]<http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&\

attach_id=10796>

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5) Five Banis are recited.

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File]<http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&\

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

*For further detail, see:*

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic...ness-acco\

unt-of-1699/

You know I have questioned these people before on these so called eyewitness accounts, and as yet, I cannot find any sources.

Instead I recieved hostility at Sikhsangat.

Sikh History from Perssian Sources Irfan Habib and grewal and Vaaran Bhai Gurdas is the closest I have come.

this guy is truly crazy. Feel bad for him

Hey leg press man, you doing half a metric tonne yet?

Yes you can. What can't you get from a vege diet, provide evidence please ?

Answer the other questions: what do you weigh and what are your numbers? Better still, lets meet up to train maybe followed by a little grappling, it'll be good to compare notes.

You believe whatever you want. You cannot get big and massive be a vege (no eggs) without supplements. Anyone who says they can is a liar.

I only bench squat and deadlift 100 kilo's (on each exercise). I'm 40 now so extrapolate back what I was lifting in my 20's.

No grappling?.....how old are you?

Lol. How much do you weigh, and what are your figures for bench, squat and deadlift? You can get everything you need from a vege diet - and that's coming from someone who, in the past, has eaten everything fom antelope to zebra.

did you catch the antelope and zebra. haha

and no you can't unless you supplement, but you can try, like some of the suckers used to at my old gym.

Mirror test doesn't differentiate man from animal, great apes have the ability to recognise themselves in mirrors also, as I believe do Dolphins and Elephants.

Maybe they have human qualities?

http://www.livescience.com/animals/061030_...ant_mirror.html

I was watching an interesting documentary that debunked the previous theories about Neanderthals being dim-witted. They were proven to have more highly evolved and effective blades than H-Sapiens for instance. It was also shown that early forms of religion are as much as 35,000 old with Venuseque figurines (representing the feminine divine) benig found across Eurpose dating back to this era). Neanderthals were alive a lot longer than that... Then there is the question of the various stages (evolutionery) of hominoid - which can/should be classed as 'insaan'? Or when did we quit being pashu (or at least have the understanding to stop being pashu)... At which point did we evolve into beings who were able to achieve mukti or realise God (truth)...

I personally don't take the yug time eras as historic fact - I think there is more to it than that - but feel free to bring that into to if you wish.

I would also be interested in parallel opinions from the Semetic angle (as well as Indian any other).

Ta.

Great question.

There was a great series years ago on BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/prehistoric_life/h...uman_evolution/

It talked about how we became man.

For me the human test is consciousness. When did we become concious of our existence. For example, you put a mirror in front of an animal and it will run away or peck it, or attack it. Only humans (and possibly apes) will look. Why because humans are actually concious of their own existence.

Hmm,

Seems to be a lot of people against Gyani Arshi. I find his view points quite refreshing. Better than some of the point finger, blasphemer, burn her posts I see.

As for Kala Afghana, I don't know what his views are but from what I see and read here his views don't really seem that bad. His name seems to be banded about as if he is the devil. Not enough to get him called a blasphemer or get him excommunicated. Like I stated in a post on SPN I have more of a problem with pornstars like Sunny Leone redefining Sikh belief, rather than people who try and use reason.

Afgana seems to upset the AKJ crew by saying things about Randhir Singh and things seem to have gone haywire after that. Saying that I frequently upset the AKJ crew and find some of Randhir Singh's views ludicrous.

I see the crux of the matter that SPN stands for freedom to express views, whether they are pro or against Dasam Granth.

A lot of people seem intolerant of that. They put on a tin pot dictator mentality despite living in a democracy.

They put up with diverse views in their daily lives yet when another Sikh expresses a different view they are a heretic.

How sad is that?

That is called Talibanisation.

Well that is the view. Like it or lump it.

My own personal view on Dasam Granth can be summed up in the following:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth...sam-granth.html

COMPOSITION OF THE DASAM GRANTH

It is unclear where all the compositions of the Dasam Granth come from. Some may have been commissioned by Guruji from his court poets, while other parts may have been penned by Guruji himself..

Note Dasam Granth is not one work like Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but a compilation of of writings recovered after the sacking of Anandpur Sahib. Many were lost.

Guruji specifically never included Dasam Granth literature in the Guru Granth Sahib ji, so one can conclude it was for another purpose.

Most of Dasam Granth is written in Braj, Punjabi and Persian.

BELIEF IN HINDU GODS

A common misconception is that Dasam Granth praises Hindu Gods. This is not true. So why are they mentioned? For the following reasons:

1) Illustrative purposes : People must remember the Khalsa had just been formed or was in the process of being formed when this was penned. The Sikhs of that time still understood things in terms of Hinduism and Hindu lore. So to describe concepts of God and complex Sikh concepts Guruji had to use concepts that were familiar to the populace hence (hence tales of Hindu mythology).

An example of this is travelling to an island where there is no electricity......how would you describe it in concepts they understand....fire, water ?

2) The is Only one God: Guruji from the start spends pages upon pages (Japu) describing the form of God "Kaal and Akaal" ..."Salutation to the one Indestructible, Salutation to the indivisible" etc etc.

3) The Hindu Gods Are Not Gods: I Akal Ustati Guruji states "He creates as well as destroys both Brahma and Shiva".......now is not a God immortal and Omnipitent? If Brahma and Shiva can be destroyed then they are not Gods. It futher says "Shiva and Vishnu fail to comprehend him"....surely a God knows everything....if Shiva and Vishnu do not know the nature of God, they cannot be Gods.

It further states under Tomar Chand "He created hundreds of Kings like Indra, many Brahmas and Vishnus, many Ramas, Krishnas and other prophets, but none is acceptable to Him without devotion". Guruji views these "Gods" as prophets and not Gods.

Under Kabitt it states

"Many Shivas came to the world and went; Many are incarnation like Krishna and Rama; innumerable are Brahmas and Vishnus, Vedas and Puranas; Many have been authors of Smirtis; They all came and went off; There have been numerous Madrarachal, innumerable Aswini Kumars and equally many progeny of incarnations, but they all have been prey to death."

How can a God die? Unless it is ofcourse not a God and a human. and mortal.

From http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&...=t&id=64483

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

ब्रहम महेसर बिसन सचीपित अंत फसे जम फासि परैंगे ॥

Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.

There are many other examples but one gets the picture that Guruji thought these so called Hindu "Gods" were just mortal, and therefore not Gods.

4) Specific Audience - The Dasam Granth (and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) has a specific audience in mind. For most parts it is Hindu`s in Dasam Granth. In Chandi Di Var, Guruji is trying to inspire the low caste Hindu`s, from which Sikh`s are made up of (Jats, Tarkhans, Kalal`s, Julaha`s, Chamar`s etc), to fight by telling them a story of Indian Lore that they will understand.

Epistle of Victory (or Zafarnama), is addressed to Aurengzeb and tell him of his treachery. What is remarkable about it is the Persian it is written in....apparently poetically and grammatically it is perfect.....something Persian`s for the most part cannot get right because it is such a subtle language....for example one could easily describe a cup a instead of an ocean with one misssed stroke.

WHY IS THE DASAM GRANTH IMPORTANT?

It is important because it describes some key events that occurred, for example the Battle of Bhanghani and Chamkaur. It also names specific Sikhs and who was involved where.

It give`s us an insight into the infant Sikh Nation.

It shows us what an accomplished intellectual Guruji was. In it he writes about the French, the Africans etc:

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&...=t&id=66496

ਫਰਾ ਕੇ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ ਮਾਨੈਂ ਕੰਧਾਰੀ ਕੁਰੈਸੀ ਜਾਨੈਂ ਪਛਮ ਕੇ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਪਛਾਨੈਂ ਨਿਜ ਕਾਮ ਹੈਂ ॥

फरा के फिरंगी मानैं कंधारी कुरैसी जानैं पछम के प्छमी पछानैं निज काम हैं ॥

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25416 (My Views On Dasam Granth)

The people of France and England revere Thee, the inhabitants of Kandhaar and Quraishis know Thee; the people of western side recognize their duty towards Thee.

Tells us about the behaviour of Sikhs and Guruji:

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਨਿ ਖੇਲ ਸਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਮਾਰੇ ਰੀਛ ਰੋਝ ਝੰਖਾਰਾ ॥੧॥

भांति भांति बनि खेल सिकारा ॥ मारे रीछ रोझ झंखारा ॥१॥

I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

ਦੇਸ ਚਾਲ ਹਮ ਤੇ ਪੁਨਿ ਭਈ ॥ ਸਹਰ ਪਾਂਵਟਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ਲਈ ॥

देस चाल हम ते पुनि भई ॥ सहर पांवटा की सुधि लई ॥

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25416 (My Views On Dasam Granth)

Then I left my home and went to place named Paonta.

ਕਾਲਿੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਤਟਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਲਾਸਾ ॥ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਂਤ ਕੇ ਪੇਖਿ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥੨॥

कालिंद्री तटि करे बिलासा ॥ अनिक भांत के पेखि तमासा ॥२॥

I enjoyed my stay on the banks of Kalindri (Yamuna) and saw amusement of various kind.

ਤਹ ਕੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਘਨੇ ਚੁਨਿ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਰੋਝ ਰੀਛ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਿਦਾਰੇ ॥

तह के सिंघ घने चुनि मारे ॥ रोझ रीछ बहु भांति बिदारे ॥

There I killed may lions, nilgais and bears.

READ WITH AN OPEN MIND AND UNDERSTANDING

Sikh writings must be understood in their specific, historical, sociological, and economical context. One then gets an image of what is going on:

For example:

1) Kabir writes at the time of the Invasion of Timur and the sacking of Delhi and Benares (which he witnessed), and the slaughter of many innocent Hindu`s.

2) Guru Nanak writes at the time of the invasion of Babur. He witnessed many atrocities.

3) Guruji writes at a time of much strife caused by Aurengzeb

There are others on SPN that find Chitropakyan particularly offensive and an insult to the 10th Master. I may not necessarily agree with their view, but I respect it.

What I fear the likes of Inder Singh/Singh2 are doing is trying to "Talibanise" Sikhi, where people are either Blasphemors or Believers. By Singh2's logic all non-Sikhs are Blasphemers because they don't believe in Sikh scriptures. Incredibly narrow minded and incredibly silly.

I hope this clears up this nonsense that Inder Singh's bruised ego started.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth...sam-granth.html

Sri Dasam Granth has been one of the Guru Khalsa Panth’s “accepted” Granths… albeit with a pinch of salt. There are others… Sarb loh Granth is one… Suraj Paraksh Granth is another. The Nitnem Banis and Banis recited at Amrit Sanskaar are from Sri Dasam Granth… and MOST Sikhs accept them as per Rehat Maryada ordained by the Akal Takhat… even though there is no irrefutable evidence based on Rehitnamahs or other contemporary historical accounts as to the NAMED BANIS Guru ji recited in 1699… and on the other side of the spectrum… a few Jathas accept Sri Dasam Granth in Toto… including the Chirtarpakhoyan Hikayats etc.

A small minority of Sikhs have begun to question and reject the Sri Dasam Granth in toto – including the nitnem Banis... this position was hardened possibly due to the opposing side, who wants the entire Sri Dasam Granth including the highly controversial parts accepted in toto. BOTH sides have been arguing and presenting historical evidence and both sides have their Die hard believers. As soon as one side began to insist on ALL or Nothing… the opposing side visibly hardened its stand… and chose NOTHING. This section of the Guru Khalsa Panth now even wants the First pauree of Ardaas removed as it is extracted from Chandi di Vaar, which is part of Sri Dasam Granth. The Faridabad Sikhs were the pioneers in this action and the Gurudwara in Finland is the first in the Diaspora to take this drastic step to change Pritham Bhagauti simar ke to Pritham AKAL PURAKH simar ke... and other changes. It is clear the position is slipping out of the hands of the Panth and its time the SGPC/Akal takhat/Other Takhats took a serious view of this deteriorating situation and take remedial actions as soon as possible.

To the uninitiated it may look like the following scenario… just as there is a long line of Dehdharee “Gurus” lined up AFTER Guru Gobind Singh Ji… and there is a fantastic fairy tale type of “history” created to strengthen this… and we have Guru No. 11, Guru No. 12, Guru No. 13, Guru No. 14… and so on… and branches of several “living Gurus”…

Now, this scenario seems to have spread to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as well….slowly a line of “Granths” is being lined up in a queue behind Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… the First in the Queue pushing and shoving… to get ahead or PARALLEL… to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… is Sri Dasam Granth… variously called by names Bachittar Naatak Granth ( Internal evidence shows at several places it is written... Here ends the Bachittar natak Granth) At Two Takhats – Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib… and at several Dera places in Punjab this Granth is in Paraksh parallel to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or in a “appropriate lesser position”… But still in the same DARBAR… One Sect/Jatha even Names the Three Main Granths similar names… AAD Darbar, Sri Dasam Granth Darbar, and Sarb loh Darbar – Having conspicuously REMOVED the Title GURU from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… and elevated the other two to a Parallel Position. A Fateh Divas was celebrated for Sri Dasam Granth in the same manner the 400th Anniversary of Gurgadee Diharra of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was celebrated. In fact, the DRASTIC DROP in attendance at the 400th anniversary celebration at Hazoor Sahib… was due to the insistence of the Takhat Authorities to not heed the call to “temporarily” remove the Parkash/stop Parkash of Sri Dasam Granth so that the FULL ATTENTION AND RESPECT of all in the Guru Khalsa Panth could be given to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji UNRESERVEDLY as was the Practice of Guru Gobind Singh ji in October 1708, when GURGADEE was ONLY given to SOLELY Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and NO OTHER Granth was parallel to paraksh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Sri Dasam Granth came very much later after Sachkhand Piana of Guru Gobind Singh ji). The Takhat Authorities failed to heed this call and hence a large number of Sikhs absented themselves from paying obeisance at Hazoor Sahib in Oct 2008... a Huge LOSS !!

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25726 (Sikh Philosophy Network's Stand on Dasam Granth Compilations)

This is the position of Sri Dasam Granth vis-a-vis Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at present. The Jury is still OUT as to whether the Entire Sri Dasam Granth is Guru Kirt (Handwritten Work)... and if not what Banis are Guru Kirt and which ones not. Both sides have PHD Scholars and academicians, web sites, Forums and Internet sites presenting their side of the “facts”… And so far NO DECISION on Sri Dasam Granth has been arrived at that is binding on anyone/all.

This decision can only be arrived at by consensus... as Gurbani declares... Gurmukhs sit down and discuss… listen to all arguments, weigh them all, seek answers from everyone… and once a DECISION UNANIMOUSLY ARRIVED AT is declared... all accept it unreservedly.

NO one Group/Jatha/individual can “cry wolf”… (slander) and expect the other side to just give up or desist… this being the 21st Century, 3rd Millennium, Age of IT, Internet, Vast Resources available at the finger tips of even a child, Age of Science and REASONING/LOGIC… no one sided “Decision/Blind faith/Shardha/etc will be bought by any except the brainwashed/pakka adherents/solidly wish-washy ones. There will be such types in the region of about 10% on BOTH sides... its the 80% MIDDLE GROUND/Fence Sitters that have to be Fully CONVINCED...

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25726 (Sikh Philosophy Network's Stand on Dasam Granth Compilations)

SPN Forum is in the Forefront of those, who are on Middle Ground… the Fence sitters... who are looking earnestly at BOTH SIDES of the Sri Dasam Granth DIVIDE... to “convince” and win them over.

SPN is one Forum/Research resource on Gurmatt/Sikhi that is very widely accessed by Sikhs and Non-Sikhs alike – SPN's membership extends across race, national boundaries, economic status, Economic divide, religious groups, social groups… and is truly MULTI-NATIONAL… stretching across continents… with a membership exceeding 8,800, and over 102,000 posts and a plethora of well written researched scholarly articles on Sri Dasam Granth, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sikh history, and various related subjects… it is to the advantage of anyone to NOT Cast wild allegations, unfounded and baseless UNTRUTHS, etc. SPN is one place that provides a balanced view of Sikhism/Gurmat and it will stay that way… regardless of individual jealousies and DON QUIXOTIC Attempts at slashing at SPN windmills (imaginary Dragons).

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is ACCEPTED BY ALL Sikhs as the One and ONLY GURU. No one has any doubts about the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… and NO Sikh should even dare to question/suggest questioning the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on any pretext… on this SPN stands FIRMLY BEHIND Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

To GillAus and Mithar.

Precisely!

I envisaged Khalistan to be a shining light. A beacon of freedom and justice for all, but somewhere it went all a bit funny......and I don't mean funny haha.

The post at # # is nothing but personal attack on me. Posting her views is anthonia who was anthonia till yesterday and became naryanjyot kaur in the evening. She is administrator for SPN. Surprisingly khalsa fauj a new favorite at SPN

is also posting. So it is well coordinated attack.

This is a typical example when one cann't counter other by arguements resort to personal attacks.That also reflects

cheap mentality of SPN people where bullying and vulgar language reigns supreme. such people are encouraged there.

This also reflects childish mentality of the poster who want to conform sikhism to their west aquired tastes. I have my Guru sahib by my side and I am not going to be deterred by such slander.

You have never attacked anyone have you?

You have never called anyone names?

Please stop this nonsense, at first I found you amusing. Now I am finding you just plain sad.

Randip

Stop beating about bush. What is your comment for the posts of Bhagat singh given here and reproduced.

The in the same thread Bhagat singh writes

dasam granth cannot be written by Guru Gobind Singh JI. Stop calling him the writer of this nonsensical piece of trash.

Khanda and Kirpan were present before Guru Gobind Singh.

Dont push it, now you will say Guru Gobind Singh worshipped Chandi! NONSENSE!----

10th Master and Amrit have nothing to do with that trash! Do YOU know anything about the concept of Khalsa??

And reply in light of post of tony aka dass007 given below

We also believe that the allegations are categorically untrue. We invite sikhwareness members to identify and list specific examples of slander found on SPN, naming the member, moderator or mentor who uttered the slander. You must also clearly state that you are responding to our invitation as a sikhwareness.com member. You will be required to provide the thread url and post number where the slander occurred. Slander is defined as words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another person. No multiple identities! Respectfully, the Admin at SPN

1) Where's the link? In anycase someone thinking Dasam Granth is not written by the 10th Master is not slander. It's called an opinion. Something you cannot seem to understand.

2) Guru Gobind Singh did not worship Chandi. You may think this but I do not.

Definition Slander:

slan·der (slndr)

n.

1. Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.

2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

I really cannot see where slander is taking place apart from you Inder Singh.

Like I said look up Mcarthyism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

QUOTE

McCarthyism is the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.

QUOTE

Although McCarthy was officially censured by the Senate for misconduct in 1954 (most of his evidence was fabricated), his claims induced an atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia that destroyed many careers. The term has come to signify any type of reckless political persecution or witch-hunt.

Randip

You were caught on SPN by me lying today and shamelessly you post here and talk about truth.

You are a shameless creature and liar calling other monkeys and then you quote Gurbani here.

Read the definition of Mcarthyism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

McCarthyism is the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.

Although McCarthy was officially censured by the Senate for misconduct in 1954 (most of his evidence was fabricated), his claims induced an atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia that destroyed many careers. The term has come to signify any type of reckless political persecution or witch-hunt.

Singh2 forget agruing with a fanatic. These guys have their agenda set and are only going to spread their hatred here and on other sites. Uncle ji(Randip Singh) is here to spread SPN as good and any other site as bad. SPn is all about getting the most members and having the highest hitts. True radical Muslims.

Leave these guys alone they got nothing to say that's virtous. Watch Randip will personally attack me here and i wont say anything back because hes crazy, mentally insane. And when i say crazy and insane i don't mean in the hip hop gangsta way hes crazy man, I MEAN HE IS REALLY CRAZY AND MEANTALLY INSANE.

Have you learned what the "Leg Press" exercise is yet? :lol:

Your buddies slander bani of our Guru. You remain there listening to venom of waheguruseeker.

do you debate there. there is no debate. Iwas called for debate but all i listened was like a court case where

personal slander was involved.

all your buddies do there is to promote kala afghan ideology. You call it debate. What a sham you have created there.

So a bob cut who resorts to frequent lies is a sikh.That is the type of sikhi you want to bring it in now.

Your kala afgana agenda is bared.

They are better than you and you have no proof they promote Kala Afghana. What they do do is make you post evidence, and you cannot usually do that.

Page 870

ਮੂਰਖ ਸਿਉ ਬੋਲੇ ਝਖ ਮਾਰੀ ॥੨॥

मूरख सिउ बोले झख मारी ॥२॥

Mūrakẖ si▫o bole jẖakẖ mārī. ||2||

To speak with a fool is to babble uselessly. ||2||

ਬੋਲਤ ਬੋਲਤ ਬਢਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰਾ ॥

बोलत बोलत बढहि बिकारा ॥

Bolaṯ bolaṯ badẖėh bikārā.

By speaking and only speaking, corruption only increases.

ਬਿਨੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੩॥

बिनु बोले किआ करहि बीचारा ॥३॥

Bin bole ki▫ā karahi bīcẖārā. ||3||

If I do not speak, what can the poor wretch do? ||3||

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਛੂਛਾ ਘਟੁ ਬੋਲੈ ॥

कहु कबीर छूछा घटु बोलै ॥

Kaho Kabīr cẖẖūcẖẖā gẖat bolai.

Says Kabeer, the empty pitcher makes noise,

ਭਰਿਆ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਡੋਲੈ ॥੪॥੧॥

भरिआ होइ सु कबहु न डोलै ॥४॥१॥

Bẖari▫ā ho▫e so kabahu na dolai. ||4||1||

but that which is full makes no sound. ||4||1||

randeep

You should have some civic sense. In fact you are proving to be a monkey.

Slander and nindya is all you know.

That is all you have to spend in your purse.

You get defeated in multiple debate and when people question your sources you revert to slander on other forums.

Inder Singh if you think I'm a monkey that's fine.

You have kala afghana sect as your mentors. Your mentor Giani writes someones article under his name.

To suppress others view point you resort to censorship over there. it is the magnanimity of this forum that you

have been allowed to say this.

That's your view, and you are entitled to it, but when you lose debates you don't go crying to other people do you. I thought the Sikh way was to stand up for yourself.

I myself asked you a million times to debate the issues and not the person. Provide sources to back up your arguments. You couldn't and wouldn't and now you are slithering from forum to forum. That is really sad.

Antonia , adm of SPN,is touted as a sikh by a moderator and she is a bob cut american. This is the sikhi you are

bringing claimto promote.

She is a better Sikh than you.

For you guys

Sharam dharm doen chhip khaloye

Koor phire pardhan ve lalo

For you specifically

Page 308

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੪ ॥

सलोक मः ४ ॥

Salok mėhlā 4.

Shalok, Fourth Mehl:

ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਤਾਤਿ ਪਰਾਈ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਭਲਾ ॥

जिसु अंदरि ताति पराई होवै तिस दा कदे न होवी भला ॥

Jis anḏar ṯāṯ parā▫ī hovai ṯis ḏā kaḏe na hovī bẖalā.

One whose heart is filled with jealousy of others, never comes to any good.

ਓਸ ਦੈ ਆਖਿਐ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਲਗੈ ਨਿਤ ਓਜਾੜੀ ਪੂਕਾਰੇ ਖਲਾ ॥

ओस दै आखिऐ कोई न लगै नित ओजाड़ी पूकारे खला ॥

Os ḏai ākẖi▫ai ko▫ī na lagai niṯ ojāṛī pūkāre kẖalā.

No one pays any attention to what he says; he is just a fool, crying out endlessly in the wilderness.

ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਚੁਗਲੀ ਚੁਗਲੋ ਵਜੈ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਰਤਿਆ ਓਸ ਦਾ ਸਭੁ ਗਇਆ ॥

जिसु अंदरि चुगली चुगलो वजै कीता करतिआ ओस दा सभु गइआ ॥

Jis anḏar cẖuglī cẖuglo vajai kīṯā karṯi▫ā os ḏā sabẖ ga▫i▫ā.

One whose heart is filled with malicious gossip, is known as a malicious gossip; everything he does is in vain.

ਨਿਤ ਚੁਗਲੀ ਕਰੇ ਅਣਹੋਦੀ ਪਰਾਈ ਮੁਹੁ ਕਢਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਓਸ ਦਾ ਕਾਲਾ ਭਇਆ ॥

नित चुगली करे अणहोदी पराई मुहु कढि न सकै ओस दा काला भइआ ॥

Niṯ cẖuglī kare aṇhoḏī parā▫ī muhu kadẖ na sakai os ḏā kālā bẖa▫i▫ā.

Night and day, he continually gossips about others; his face has been blackened, and he cannot show it to anyone.

ਕਰਮ ਧਰਤੀ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੇਹਾ ਕੋ ਬੀਜੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਕੋ ਖਾਏ ॥

करम धरती सरीरु कलिजुग विचि जेहा को बीजे तेहा को खाए ॥

Karam ḏẖarṯī sarīr kalijug vicẖ jehā ko bīje ṯehā ko kẖā▫e.

The body is the field of action, in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga; as you plant, so shall you harvest.

ਗਲਾ ਉਪਰਿ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਵਿਸੁ ਖਾਧੀ ਤਤਕਾਲ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਏ ॥

गला उपरि तपावसु न होई विसु खाधी ततकाल मरि जाए ॥

Galā upar ṯapāvas na ho▫ī vis kẖāḏẖī ṯaṯkāl mar jā▫e.

Justice is not passed on mere words; if someone eats poison, he dies.

ਭਾਈ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਸਚੁ ਕਰਤੇ ਕਾ ਜੇਹਾ ਕੋਈ ਕਰੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਕੋਈ ਪਾਏ ॥

भाई वेखहु निआउ सचु करते का जेहा कोई करे तेहा कोई पाए ॥

Bẖā▫ī vekẖhu ni▫ā▫o sacẖ karṯe kā jehā ko▫ī kare ṯehā ko▫ī pā▫e.

O Siblings of Destiny, behold the justice of the True Creator; as people act, so they are rewarded.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਸਭ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਦਰ ਕੀਆ ਬਾਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥੧॥

जन नानक कउ सभ सोझी पाई हरि दर कीआ बाता आखि सुणाए ॥१॥

Jan Nānak ka▫o sabẖ sojẖī pā▫ī har ḏar kī▫ā bāṯā ākẖ suṇā▫e. ||1||

The Lord has bestowed total understanding upon servant Nanak; he speaks and proclaims the words of the Lord's Court. ||1||

Who is monkey? You are the monkey.

Like I said, I am proud to be a monkey but what you are doing is spreading poison:

Page 171

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਹੀਅਰਾ ਅਤਿ ਕਠੋਰੁ ਹੈ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਾਰ ਕਰੀਠਾ ॥

मनमुख हीअरा अति कठोरु है तिन अंतरि कार करीठा ॥

Manmukẖ hī▫arā aṯ kaṯẖor hai ṯin anṯar kār karīṯẖā.

The hearts of the self-willed manmukhs are hard and cruel; their inner beings are dark.

ਬਿਸੀਅਰ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਆਈਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਨਿਕਸੈ ਫੋਲਿ ਫੁਲੀਠਾ ॥੩॥

बिसीअर कउ बहु दूधु पीआईऐ बिखु निकसै फोलि फुलीठा ॥३॥

Bisī▫ar ka▫o baho ḏūḏẖ pī▫ā▫ī▫ai bikẖ niksai fol fuṯẖīlā. ||3||

Even if the poisonous snake is fed large amounts of milk, it will still yield only poison. ||3||

Uncle Ji, whatever your personal opinions or views, calling people monkeys just makes you as bad as those you despise.

Why not debate the issues raised with some akhlaq and manners?

Now like Inder Singh aka Singh 2 I think people here need to go back to school and learn to read.

Here is what I wrote:

This thread reminds me of a Monkeys Tea Party I once saw at London Zoo!

Now please enlighten me where I said the people here, or this person here?

Please tell me which exact person or persons I called a monkey? Did I call the thread a monkey, in which case why are you offended that the thread is being called a monkey?

See this is the problem. If you have a small house, do not make provision to entertain an elephant!

Are you stating that all the people on this forum are monkeys?

If so why do you come to this forum? Why not go back to the forums you have been on previously and let us monkeys get on with our 'tea parties'!

The monkeys were having a nice tea party, then one of them threw something at the other. Before you knew it they were hurling faeces at one another. Get the picture!

Infact I might leave.

Never thought I would see the day this forum would turn into sikhsangat 2. Its a real shame.

Try me

Try you for what?

What are you implying?

Learn what "Leg Press" is first then come and talk.