guv

The Tory proposal to cut immigration is to put a cap on skilled labour from outside the EU. There are soo many flaws in that proposal that it beggars belief.

1. The vast majority of immigration is from within the EU (both skilled and unskilled). The only way the UK government can stop that is by leaving the EU.

2. If someone from outside the EU marries a British citizen (or anyone from within the EU) they can migrate to the UK. There is no cap on this.

3. Legitimate refugees from war-torn countries or people who cannot return to their native country due to risk of mistreatment have to be allowed to stay in the UK by international law. I would assume the majority of immigrants who fall into this category would be unskilled.

4. That leaves the skilled labour from outside the EU. These are people who are predominantly very highly educated and who can make a valuable contribution to the economic output of the country. The kind of people who will have learnt how to speak English (or would have to learn as they would have to have a job offer to be able to go to the UK) and who would be more likely to integrate than some of the other categories above.

i'm no supporter of the tories, nor think they have any good intentions for our community but the recent immigrants e.g. somalians etc do take the piss.

walking around all burqad up, not speaking a word of english, commit crime etc

if they in their native country become pirates or join al-qaeda they shouldnt be allowed into a country full of people they would otherwise target.

The whole point is that the Tories would have no effect on Solmalians etc as they are refugees. The question over whether they are legitimate or not is a valid one, but also very difficult to prove one way or another. As such it is very difficult to then deport them especially to a country that has no functioning government.

So why is Cameron making a big deal out of all of this if he is only putting a cap on a minority of immigrants and only on the immigrants who have the most to offer and the most likely to integrate into the wider community? Votes, plain and simple. He's playing the crowds who, after being whipped up to a frenzy by the right-wing media, are frustrated with Eastern Europeans, Kurds, Somalians etc... without telling them that his policy will have no effect on those immigrants because they are from the EU or are refugees. It's a very dangerous and devisive tactic where he is effectively saying immigration, and by extension immigrants, are bad.

Clegg actually had Cameron over these exact points in the leaders' debate last year... but since he has sold his soul for the glimpse of power, he's been mysteriously quiet on the issue.

Summary of David Cameron's speeches this week: Oxford University should accept more black people... but Britain shouldn't.

Davinder Singh Panesar

phone no:

email:

Location: Leicester

involved with Sikh community, and sikh converts

I don't think it's right to put someone's contact details on a public forum, especially their phone number. You could just pm it to whoever requests it.

And isn't he from Coventry? At least he used to be a few years ago.

was Niddar Singh severely beaten up by taksal or akj? probably not, so why does he spread lies and venom about them on various forums and his website?

Which forums is he on?

I highly recommend watching this documentary which highlight how corporations work - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3203253804055041031

The Corporation is a must watch! It's a real eye-opener.

Gurfateh

Veer Guv, I've pmd you.

Gurfateh

I've PM'd you back

Is this an English translation or is it the original text in Gurmukhi script?

It's both, with a commentary.

A new riddle if anyone's interested:

ta le

I have 3 or 4 copies left. PM me if you still want one.

Prem Sumarag Granth regards women as equals and they are given khande di pahul...

Re-read Prem Sumarag and you'll see there's a huge difference between the way the khande di pahul is prepared for men and the way it is for women.

N30 that'd be great!

I'm going to try advertising the torrent on a few torrent search sites so hopefully there'll be a lot more of the general public downloading it.

15 peers and 5 seeds already... didn't realise it'd be that popular!

I encoded it using XviD so you'll need the right codecs to play it. You can use VLC like unbreakable mentioned, or if you want to use Windows Media Player install the K-Lite Codec Pack - http://www.free-codecs.com/K_lite_codec_pack_download.htm

Welcome Parchand Ji!

I've [finally!] managed to convert this into a torrent... (I think!)

http://tracker.zaerc.com/torrents-details.php?id=13291

Click on Download this .torrent on the right hand side then run the torrent file to download.

NB you need a BitTorrent client to download the video. If you don't have one already, I'd suggest BitTornado... it's small, fast and simple. Download from http://www.bittornado.com/download.html

I'll keep seeding as long as I can. Please continue to seed after you've downloaded!

Nick Fleming will be doing a talk in South Kensington, London on Wednesday 17th September 6.30 - 8pm.

http://www.punjabheritage.org/editorials--...ure-series.html

You may need to book... the article is unclear on that.

Recycling with the Nihang Singhs of Punjab

A throw-away line completely opened my eyes to what was actually going on around me. "Nick, where's the bin?" I asked, as I wandered around the room looking for somewhere into which to deposit a plastic bag and its contents. "There isn't one," he nonchalantly replied, "and nor is there anywhere on the camp."

We were in Punjab in the lead up to the Sikh Tercentenary of 1999, just months before mobile phones moved in to herald the new millennium. Now each time we return it is harder to forget western civilisation and the 21st century. The cacophony of tacky ringtones doesn't blend so easily with the stillness of prayer or the beat of spiritual music.

Nick had actually been living and photographing at this camp for a while by the time I went to stay there with him from the small village where I was then living in at the other end of Punjab. I was already used to all the rural sanitary arrangements, and had even grown to love the sensuousness of having a bath with a bucket of freezing water in an open outdoor closet and all the other things which wake us up out of our western comfort zone. The lack of privacy, the lack of personal space, the lack of respect that what is mine is mine and not for general consumption, each had changed my outlook on life forever. Now though I was confronted with a different issue: where do I put my rubbish?

Harian Belan is a beautiful haven set in the rich lush greenery of Northern India. It is the home to a community of Nihang Singhs, spiritual warriors whose way of life has not changed from 300 years ago when they were brought together by Guru Gobind Singh as his army. It is a very spiritual place and the sound of people reading from the Sikh holy book, called the Siri Guru Grandth Sahib, echoed throughout enhanced by birdsong and the ubiquitous chirping of grasshoppers. The tinny loudspeakers and the jeeps the Nihangs travelled around in when they weren't on horseback were the only way of knowing we weren't back in the 17th century. The bag in my hand became a statement of modernity in deep conflict with the eternal balance of nature and man.

We had many hours to idle away and I began to observe how the camp worked and the community cooperated together. All food is cooked in camp in the communal kitchens. This feeds the members of the camp and any who come to visit or are just passing through. A deep seated part of the Sikh way of life is to feed people. Chapattis the size of dinner plates, pitted, bubbled and occasionally burnt, lentils and very spicy vegetables are cooked on fires which are constantly being stoked with the dried leaf waste from the fields. The leftover food (because nothing is ever reheated) is fed to their horses and the local dogs. The water is from the well. The ash from the fire is piled up just outside the eating area and used as washing up liquid to clean the stainless steel plates and cups. Sewage is turned into compost which is used on Harian Belan's extensive fields which grew all the food necessary to support the community. Any things bought from the market, such as spices, come in paper bags which are added to the kitchen fires. In the cold winter months we all huddled up around the fire which kept the kettle boiling all day. How warm those metal cups are when filled with Chai. I don't really like tea and so would be given buffalo milk straight from the udder instead which was just as warm. The buffalo were fed on all the vegetable peels. In all of this there was nowhere for plastic to go.

While we were there a Mela (fair) took place. No big deal, only 10,000 people were expected. In the days running up to it all our duties were enhanced. Everyone in the camp, including us, was given Seva, a selfless service, to perform. Nick spent 2 ½ hours each morning and night cross-legged on the floor making balls out of the chapatti dough. Before the Mela preparations, mine was to help in the kitchen, either by stirring the vegetables with the huge spoons in the cauldrons or by flipping the chapattis on the oven. Now it was to shell 60kg of peas a day for about 5 days. Do you have an idea how big a pile of peas can look when you're sitting cross-legged in front of it?. Those pea-pods were carefully checked for non-edible rubbish before being fed to the buffalo and I swear I could almost taste peas in the milk for a few days.

The Mela day was filled with performances by the skilful warrior showmen, services in the Gurdwara, and food for all. As the sun set and the last people began to leave the cleanup team collected barely a rubbish bag of unrecyclable stuff which was then ignominiously deposited down by the main road. Finally I managed secretly to slip in my own little contribution.

Guru Kaur © 2007

Guru Kaur is married to Nick Fleming. She spent a year living in Amritsar and Anandpur Sahib as a representative of Yogi Bhajan in the time leading up to the Sikh Tercentennary. She and Nick lived with the Nihangs during Nick's first trip there to photograph them.

Taken from http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=39397

The first response to the article made me laugh!

In Gurmat, for as long as the Atma is affected by microcosmic ignorance (agyan) then it can never be Ishvar. Only Ishvar can be Ishvar. Yet what underpins both is Atma, non different from Parmatma (as so many shabads maintain).

Please can you explain what you mean in the above paragraph, specifically the last sentence... both what?

respected brothers and sisters.

I am Nina's husband and son of late Bhai Gurmit Singh Virdee and would like to kindly clarify the situation with Nina not attending the Sikh student camp

Sadly Nina was taken ill and couldn't attend - I personally called a member of the student camp to advise that she would be unable to attend.

You cannot answer the phone when in hospital.

I was not due to perform.

I performed the previous year.

Nina and I both were looking forward to the student and camp and hope that we may be invited in the future.

NINA HAS NEVER CANCELLED A SINGLE PERFORMANCE BEFORE OR AFTER THIS DATE.

May I thank you for your kind words and humbly ask you for forgiveness.

Regards

Raju

Thanks for the clarification. I hope she is feeling better now.

I was the coordinator of the camp last year, and I was not informed by anyone of your phone call, hence my previous comment.

Sorry if I caused any offence.

Bhavarasamrit were can you purchase it in england?

You can get it from DTF, Soho Road, Birmingham. They said they'd put it on their website for online ordering, but I don't know if they have yet.

Not really sure to be honest. I'm not involved in organising it this year. I'll try and find out and get back to you.

Thanks... I'm listening to it for the third time

She was supposed to come to Sikh Student Camp last year and perform with her husband on sitar... but they didn't turn up and wouldn't answer their phone.

Apparently that's not the first time they've let people down like that.

Going to Khalsa Camp or Sikhi Camp (London) would probably be a good start. Khalsa Camp I would say is aimed more at those who have discovered Sikhi, have a passion for it, want to learn more and want sangat - with the likes of Tapoban Singh speakers.

Sikhi Camp is a more modern/fun approach aimed at actually attracting people into Sikhi (apologies for the over-simplified descriptions - I am trying to stay neutral) with the likes of 3HO speakers etc.

http://www.khalsacamp.com/uk/

http://www.sikhicamp.org/

Other than that you could start one of many Kirtan classes in the West Midlands, ask around at your Gurdwarai for anyone who teaches santhia (Taksali Singh etc).

You've confused Sikhi Camp with Sikh Student Camp

www.sikhstudent.org

Speakers from last year include Bhai Tirath Singh Nirmala author of Bhavrasamrit and Amandeep Madra co-author of Siques, Tigers, or Thieves and Warrior Saints.

Highly recommended.

There is a weekly youth kirtan in Sparkhill

Guru Nanak Gurdwara (just off Stratford Road)

24 Showell Green Lane

Sparkhill

Birmingham

B11 4JP

Wednesdays

6.30pm - 9pm

A gurbani vichaar katha in English is also held on Wednesdays, where they go through the translations of Jap Ji Sahib

Gurdwara Amrit Parchar Dharmik Diwan

65 Birmingham Road

Oldbury

West Midlands

B69 4EH

6.30 - 7.30pm

Every Friday evening a few Sikh youth get together to do Rehraas Sahib, then go through the translation of one shabad each week or have a discussion on a particular topic.

Further details on the FaceBook group: http://www.facebook.com/inbox/#/group.php?gid=8345143223

or pm me