giani_g

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yeh but there's a difference between dicussing a point and slandering our beliefs. That NewAgeBrahman wasn't going to listen to what we had to say and was only trying to insult/irritate us. Would you like it if I started a post of how we should do whatever the hell we like because God is supposed to be merciful and that the Khalsa is too tight with the rules. You see if we let any idiot say what they want they'll flood the forum with garbage and the rest of us will just generally be annoyed ploughing through blasphemous post after post. Anyway Commander is right. BTW yes I do know my post is tad exaggerated.

What I notice is that most Singhs who whine that Sikh girls don't like their beards or turbans go after girls who are barely Sikh in the first place.

Reminds me of the kind of stuff that poets like Blake would have said about the establishment (the government, the Church and the monarchy) back in his time. I think she has made a valid point, if no one stands up (I know it was only a forum) then who's keep these people in check. Though burning MAY be a bit too extreme. I think she's only mad because he's supposed to represent us and thats the image he put forward to the public on our behalf. Does anyone from the midlands remember that granthi who smuggled drugs into Leicester prison? By the way I'm not critiscising "sants" nor do I support them.

In response to shaka's earlier comments, Well who told you he (Mr T) was gay, have you seen him getting jiggy with other guys or did he make a pass at you in those bars you go. Yes gays can drink milk but its one of Mr T's trademarks as well as his many others like the A Team, Clubber Lang (Rocky 3) etc. No ones gonna remember him for being gay (not that anyone I know heard these so called rumours :roll: ) but they will for the A Team (even though that was corny). O yeh as a matter of fact I do have a mucha (as well as kes), and I don't practise "tradition" just religion and I can preach Sikhism if I want, just because I can't play a vaja or hunt a deer :roll: means that I'm a hypocrite or a false Sikh. Anyone (Khalsa or not) should preach Sikhism so as long as they're not bordering hypocrasy (ie getting drunk, sleeping around, inciting prejudice etc). Anyway forget about him, this post wasn't about him or homosexuality. I'm gonna forget about that making that post back to that gorie (mainly to avoid getting spammed by a mob of atheists and Nagra lovers) but it annoyed me that she implied how religion CAN NOT co exist with a career (I highlighted the relevant parts in her post). Also her suggestion that we should take our oppurtunities over our parents wishes is a selfish suggestion (which is why I guess you don't get any Sikhs in pensioner homes), wouldn't it be better to make your parents proud and help yourself out at the same time.

That is correct, but I was comparing them in the context of worship rather than community services and I was trying to stay with the topic at hand rather than side track so I just made a comparison concerning worship. However I acknowledge that I am incorrect in that respect.

Since when was Mr T gay? Last time I checked he was a exercise, milk promoting role model who doesn't drink and is suppose to be a good Christian and a family man. I don't adore the guy but I thought the avatar was a bit funny. "Gurdvara the equivalent of a church"?!?!??!?! What a joke!!! The gurdvara is Maharaj's court, a darbar not a church!!!" uhhhh, it IS the equivalent as it is where we congregate and Christians congregate in Churches. Both buildings are used for the worship of God and mass/sangat. Are you trying to say that the Church is obsolete because they havn't got their own Guru Granth Sahib Ji or are you trying to say that Christians are praying in vain to the "wrong" god.

Since when was Mr T gay? He doesn't even drink and is suppose to be a good Christian and a family man.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286499/board/nest/6676375 Original post "After the big backlash on "Lost in Translation" "The Joy Luck Club" and "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", I'm curious now. Any Asian Indians out there who were offended by "Bend It Like Beckham"? If so, why?!" My post (after like 10 i think and the only Sikh one too) "Yeh I was offended because I was brought up quite conservatively (though I found religion for myself) and I felt that the film promotes stereotypes and trivialises Sikh family values. For example, in our culture we would obey and respect our parents discission (unless of course they were wishing you to do evil etc). So stuff like when she lied to her parents several times and when she skipped Gurdwara (Sikh equivalent of a church) just to play football. Also the parents were made to look pretentious and over bearing (particularly the mother who seemed to be a fanatic at times). Also I found it offensive how the girl ran off with the coach, in our culture it is seen as very important to marry off to another Sikh (wether or not the marriage was arranged) and it really triviliased the subject and kind of promoted the idea that the old religion/culture is silly/pointless as the parents were made to look unfair and strict wheras Jess being young and innocent appealed to the audience. Another thing that annoyed me was how the mother would talk to her photo of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji (revered to as Baba Ji in the movie), in Sikhism idolism is rejected yet it shows her treating the picture like it had a soul. This is just an opinion from a practising Sikh. Also I wouldn't have enjoyed the film anyway, it was quite mediocre I felt, if you've seen East Is East or American Desi then the ethnic jokes would seem rather bland. Plus the lesbian subplot was only mildly funny and the gay joke was completely random and out of place. Though her obnoxious friends (the male ones obviously) were a tad bit funny but in my opinion still doesn't redeem the film." Some (apparantly) gorie/atheist's reply to my post: "Okay, I have to ask...do many of you folks see what you're doing here? By decrying stereotypes, you perpetuate them. Does it matter so very much that Jes' family is not the `perfect' Sikh representation? Isn't that the point of the movie? That *no one* is perfect regardless of race, and that every race, color, creed, nationality, religion, and sexual orientation have the exact same problems as every other person alive in the world. What I got out of the movie...strip away the titles and labels. Indian, Sikh, Irish, British, white, male, female, old, young...and just see these characters as people. Not every person born to a Sikh family is going to embrace the culture. Jes happens to be one of them; she respects her family's culture but is also embracing her own life. Every person with a mind, heart, and soul does the same thing. Being born into a Sikh family...or American Indian family, or Chinese family, or white ultra-right-wing religious conservative family...does not automatically mean you have to do and be exactly the same. You've seen this movie a thousand times before, and probably laughed and cheered. Think `Dirty Dancing', `Footloose', `Malibu's Most Wanted', `School of Rock', etc and so forth. Parents want one thing for a child, child has a gift or talent the family thinks is foolish or not worth pursuing, child is determined to go their own way... By focusing on the ethnicity, nationality, or religious persuasion of a particular character, you yourself are perpetuating stereotypes and racism. Claiming that a certain detail somehow overpowers the basic humanity of the character. People are just...people. To me, that's where BILB really outdid the competition. Jules and Jes have the exact same problems: both Moms want their daughters to live their version of the traditional life. Cultures and religion really don't enter into it. It's about the new generation having the chance and the choice to pursue their dreams, not their parents. Trying and perhaps failing, but having the freedom to make the choice, take the chance. I've been lucky to be exposed to a broad variety of races and cultures in my time. And not just exposure to the culture as a whole, but the individuals within it. Guess what? They've all got the same basic problems, worries, and fears as casual old white-bread American me. Parents want their kids to excel, kids want to push the boundaries and establish their own identities, the rent has to be paid, food has to be cooked, people die suddenly and unexpectedly, babies are born, and life goes on. The human experience is omni-racial. I'm pretty certain everyone here of a particular race, religion, or ethnicity knows someone who gossips, cheats on their spouse, lies habitually, has moved outside their culture, is repressive, obsessive, neurotic, psychotic, alcoholic, drug addict, unwed parent, ad infinitum. That doesn't make them...or you...stereotypes. It makes all of us human. Think about it." God talk about loose liberal, an obviously anti religious hippie type person so I can't get her to shut the hell up by explaining Sikhism to her, so can anyone here help me out because I all i got so far is "The original post asks if any Indians (ie originating from the Indian subcontinent) were offended and i was therefore i made the post. Your opinion is invalid in relation to the topic at hand so don't attack and shove your beliefs down my throat, I was just expressing an opinion from someone who IS actually from the same culture rather than someone who has embraced another culture and has little experience of his ancestors culture other than being tanned." BTW I think every one on these forums should register on this site http://www.imdb.com/ because some of these films are very overated whilst others are very underated (based on user votes which I believe don't represent a large enough proportion of society).

Well I'll reply to Deepthinker despite his ban. I was commenting on the small kirpans that were being discussed as well as self defence situations. You took it out of context by suggesting that the kirpan would out when not needed, I was commenting on the fear of the aggressor which would be fine.

"neo i dont thinnk you should say this because you yourself wear a small kirpan with your kanga. if you wore a gatra one then i think it would be ok for you to say this. i recommend that everyone one should wear a gatra wale kirpan." - Dassan Das Well I disagree with you, not only is it better than having no weapon at all, also you'd be surprised how scared some people are of it.

I agree with Lion King its this kind of attitude among the elder (as in the pre generation x'ers) non Khalsa that has caused a great deal of apostasy in the youth. Though the elder non Khalsa generation may "appear" to care but because of this attitude (that it "doesn't matter") the "Sikh" youth don't really care if it doesn't involve bhangra or barcardi. Don't misinterpret me I am only critiscising those Sikhs who keep using the "what's inside" excuse to avoid gurbani, gurdwara etc There are plenty of Sikhs who are non Khalsa and are genuinely good but they never put down or even suggest that the Khalsa as is unnecessary or obsolete.

woops wrong window! can admin remove post?

Damn shame I found this topic too late. Well anyway by western secular standards Jamuka is right about the lack of freedom and how Bush and Blair are fighting for what is right. However has anyone noticed how democratic countries become more liberal over time for example look at how progressively trashy western society has become over the last 100 years, even India is catching up look at how sleazely Bollywood films are getting. My friend who has been to Iran says it isn't as bad as everyone's making out, its just that you cannot break Islamic law like drinking, porno or thieving. Also any religion is allowed there just as long as you're not Ba'hai or breaking Islamic law. Well that's what I've heard anyway. Anyway there is supposed to be a flourishing Sikh community over there so it can't be that bad. Also a Sikh friend of mine from Bahrain says its a much better country (overall health, education etc) than the UK and there are more biggots over here than there. I use to really hate Islam (not because of my pro Indian friends) but because I always thought that freedom of expression and democracy was what we should all aim for but look at the cost, liberals, nightclubs, cheap booze, tacky repetitive music, the need to buy the logos rather than the clothes and the dumbing down of society. That is when I realised that all these Muslim countries arn't anti democracy, they're just pro religion and anti sleaze but unfortuanately also anti Israel which is why they take a lot of heat from Western countries. I'm glad that Bush liberated the Iraqi's from secular Saddam now because its pretty inevitable that the Shiite are going to take over and make another theocracy in the Middle East. Put it this way would it be easier to raise a Sikh in this "ideal" consumer fashion world or in "oppressive" and "evil" Iran.

I'm glad I didn't watch it then, I thought it was going to be rubbish seeing how that comedian geezer was supposed to be presenting it and the title was a lame pun as well especially seeing how it (the pun/title) was based on that tacky sitcom put me off. BBC are really rubbish when it comes to Sikhs, there was once this documentary on the curse of the korinor (that big diamond in the crown jewls) and it mentioned Maharaja Ranjit Singh but constantly refered to him as being "Hindu", I know he wasn't the best Sikh but come on. The BBC also admin cut up documentaries on the partition of the Punjab as far I've seen, omitting the Sikhs entirely as though they didn't exist. P.S Also apparanlty (on the documentary I mentioned) it said that Ranjit wanted his son to offer it as a gift to the Hindu God Shiva as he was dying. Does anyone know if that was true?

Does anyone think this guy's just an angry Sahajdhari? AK47s arn't allowed on the streets I'm affraid, but a Kirpan is legal and less intimidating being tucked away. As for the turban, well who wears body armour or helmets on the street? And if you're actually talking about war rather than real life situations than use your commoun sense, do you really think that Singhs in the Indian army pull out their talwars to fight? Anyway Singhs in the US, British and Indian armies (as far as I know) are allowed to keep their 5 ks so I guess the kirpan is a convenient substitute for a combat knife which they would obviously use when there is no other alternative. By the way I know this may be a silly question but do kirpans have to be shaped in the traditional style that they are or other kinds allowed?

What's wrong with a salwaar kumeez? :roll: The burka is intended to keep perverts away for your information and most Sikhs tend to stick with Sikhs anyway... Actually the decent girls will go for turbanned guys (not necessarily all the time). The ones who don't are normally the kala/gora wannabes who drink/smoke and wear tacky pvc clothes at nightclubs. I can easily turn around and say to you why would I want a Western bimbo with no self respect, a thirst for booze and listens to ©rap music. Everyone's got their own taste and what most Singhs (assuming that they're actually religious) would want to go for a girl who respects his religion (as in doesn't get upto immoral rubbish) and doesn't want to bed him till they're (well if anyway) married and likewise a real Sikh girl would want the same and wouldn't care for superficial nonsense as most (not all there are good Sikhs without Kes) shaved guys just want a little drunken debauchery. I'd think most Sikhs here would preffer the salwaar kumez don't you.

lol Canadian Jatti is right. Maybe the admin should lock the topic leave the last word, people are just repeating themselves (yeh me 2 ).

I havn't read the previous posts so I might be repeating what some other guy said so don't whine at me. Anyway from my experience most apostate Sikh girls (who happen to make the majority of Sikh girls) pretty much dislike facial hair, but most tolerate turbans etc. Only the ones who have a decent amount of knowledge of Sikhism and maintain their dignity (ie no booze and mini skirts) don't mind beards but they're few in number, well at least in my generation and where I'm from. However it just shows how superficial people are, I don't really care what people think and neither should any other Singhs getting bugged by this absurd trend.

I agree with Sikhsangats first post. I'm glad that Bollywood film's are too crap to get into mainstream media or win any decent awards (excluding Indian ones obviously). I wouldn't worry about tacky Bollywood films when there are these Gillette adverts on tv, anyone remember that Gillette advert with Beckham in it. Talk about selling your product. "You know the feeling, you are invinceable, and you want to feel like this every day" You'd have thought that the cheesiness would have killed the sales.

-- 'Can a Sahjdhari Sikh perform Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, Amritsar' If not then whats the difference between a Sahjdhari Sikh and Shudra in ancient Hindu society as in today's Hindu society Shudras are allowed to go into the temples. Well I've seen a Muslim (well he was wearing a topi thing so its safe to assume) performing kirtan at Harmander Sahib so obviously yes. Another thing is that all Gurdwaray are equal therefore it wouldn't matter which Gurdwara is in question. You've been told many times and I'll tell you myself that you should read up before making silly accusations. You're not trying to debate a point, you're trying to demolish and devalue our beliefs so that you can giggle away behind the safety of your monitor. People like you should get a life, if you got a problem with some Sikhs who are bullying you then don't come whining to us, this isn't social security. What do you want to get out of this because there isn't any point as we are firm in our belief and one little loser like you isn't going to change that. Even the Jew on this forum has far greater respect than you a so called "Sikh". Go reform yourself before reforming anyone else.

Its shame how ingrateful and unappreciative people are.

sukhi_v, I think I understood what you said but I hope you arn't implying that I said films that makes money are good. Yeh I liked Devdas anyway lol Sardu you're right I did take it a bit too seriously. I agree with you how Hollywood romances rely a lot on the bed room to show expressions of love. But Bollywood films are still too repetative and when they do try to be different they do it wrong and try to appeal to add sex appeal which ends up offensive (unless you're into that thing of course) good examples are Jism and Girlfriend. By the way imagine if Saving Private Ryan had musical scenes in it like Border? Anyway this shudn't be a debate so I'll think its best to end with "whatever rocks your boat."

"To appriciate hindi movies, you have to have taste for it. its unfair to compare it with hollywood movies... there are huge differences.." - Sardu What you mean a taste for it? I just stated the reasons why I found those particular films really rubbish. I could easily do the same for many of Steve Martin's recent turkeys, Swept Away or some tacky horror films like Chainsaw Texas Massacre (the remake) or Cabin Fever. A good film is something that appeals to all people (if not most) regardless of wether its Hindi, English, French or German. Saying that you have to have a taste for Hindi films doesn't redeem the film from being crap. Also not necessarily does Hollywood produce good films all the time, just look at Gigli, Universal Soldier 2, Return Of The Avengers and Freddy Got Fingered... Plus if you are insinuating that its unfair to compare because Hollywood films have larger budgets then you are mistaken. For example, the Blair Witch Project had a budget of $35,000 dollars and it brought in $248,300,000 (doesnt necessarily mean it is good!). The Godfather undoubtedly a good film only costed 7 million dollars and brought in $268,500,000. Another brilliant film, Gone With The Wind only had a budget of $3,900,000, yet raked in $390,525,192. Wheras Devdas had a budget of 10 million dollars but only grossed a meager 7 million dollars... BTW don't use the excuse that Hindi films are undermined by being foreign because Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Life Is Beautiful and Yi-Yi prove that language boundaries arn't a problem so as long as the film is good of course which is the real reason why (with the exception of Lagaan) Hindi films are flops world wide.