To the Moderators ...I am getting Hate Mail

[singho]

i have to deal with asylum and refugees from Iran and India.

Is that in the capacity of a serving police officer mate? The reason I ask is that I think the Home Office immigration people take a different view of the vast majority of asylum claims from Iran and, especially, India. But I think the UK police are more sympathetic when forming personal opinions about such claims, perhaps. Are you still on 'the force'?

[wahegurubol]

Look friends. I am not trying to compare Iran with India,but if you really want to compare Iran with India. I would go for India, because Sikhs got MORE freedom in India than in Iran. If you want to compare all thecountries of the world than to the best of my knowledge I feel Canada is the best country.

Now as for Iran. Iran is just another Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Girls are raped there in the custody of police, okay even in Indian police custody it is.. but an Indian girl can file a court case and Iranian girl will straight be executed or as per the law to be stoned to death.

Something that happens in Pakistan.. I have read..this 16 year old girl was gang raped and made to parade naked on the streets and the people and the police did nothing to stop the offenders until one elderly woman put a cloth on her body...now thats horrific...

all these tri-countries Iran-Afghanistan-Pakistan are the three most barbaric, uncivilised countries of the world in terms of its religious clergy.

IRAN EXECUTES ITS PEOPLE PUBLICALLY ... THE VERY GOVERNMENT OF IRAN EXECUTES ITS PEOPLE PUBLICLY BY HOISTING THEM UP WITH CRANES !!!!!1 THAT IS HORRIFIC ENOUGH TO MAKE IT A "NO-GO" COUNTRY.

USA DOESNT EXECUTE ITS PEOPLE PUBLICALLY AND EVEN IF IT DOES EXECUTE CRIMINALS THEY USE TO DO IT WITH AN ELECTRIC CHAIR AND NOW MORE COMMONLY THEY ETHUANISE THE PERSON TO DEEP SLEEP , WHICH IS PAINLESS.

INDIA DOESNT CARRY OUT PUBLIC EXECUTIONS ... EVEN THOUGH INDIAN DEMOCRACTIC SYSTEM IS CORRUPT AND I MEAN TO SAY TOTALY CORRUPT.. LIVING IN INDIA IS NOT AS BAD AS LIVING IN IRAN WHERE THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALY DOESNT GIVE U THE BASIC LIBERTY RIGHTS.

I CAN LIVE IN INDIA AND WRITE A WHOLE bad things ABOUT INDIA, BUT IF ANYONE LIVES IN IRAN AND WRITES bad things about IRAN, HES BOUND TO FACE EXECUTION. Tell me is this true or not?

i know so many people who left iran to USA to escape the rule of the regime.

shamsher u maybe javanmard with a different id. i dont have anything against you.. you can be my friend, but i m helping you look at some of the bad things about your country.. and perhaps you will feel a lot better agreeing with me.

[wahegurubol]

MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE...

IRAN IS IN THE WATCH-LIST OF THE United States of America !

Very soon your piece of land will be greeting F-16s and Stealth Fighters.

Very soon your soil will become targets of US Cruise missiles and smart bombs to blow of those caves where you sheet-heads live.

[Guest shamsher]

That was already the case in the 80s and Iran is still there. US, UK, France, Germany armed Iraq and even sent pilots to bomb Iran: Iran still exists and it won the war. Dream on ghulam e amrika!

[wahegurubol]

us, uk , france, germany might have armed Iraq !

but watch when UNITED STATES OF AMERICA will come to get u.. make yourself a cave and hide.

[Guest shamsher]

Tell me, if your USA is so strong how come they haven't captured that Sunni bastard Ossam Bin Laden? Also how come they haven't been able to bring peace to Iraq? And did they win the Vietnam war?

I love it when pindoos like you say: Amrik ij bery shtrong joo no?

I am impressed indeed!

[Kam1825]

That cause the war was about nothing but oil, power and a foothold in the middle east. nothing else

[wahegurubol]

Tell me, if your USA is so strong how come they haven't captured that Sunni bastard Ossam Bin Laden? Also how come they haven't been able to bring peace to Iraq? And did they win the Vietnam war?

I love it when pindoos like you say: Amrik ij bery shtrong joo no?

I am impressed indeed!

BinLaden is dead, read the news on what his son told

[wahegurubol]

do u know about Ali Sina

[Guest shamsher]

Ali Sina yes I know him, he got beaten twice in debates but never makes it public LOL. The guy couldn't even calculate Aisha's age what a moron!

[wahegurubol]

who cares about Aisha's age... u have to admit Ali Sina an Iranian scholar, fed up or Iran left Iran and is totally against it...there are so many of his likes.

[wahegurubol]

what are you trying to prove exactly shamsher? you are saying that sikhs in western and indian soil are missing out on the freedom and that Iran is better for them? is this what you are trying to say...when u say Iran is better than Paris and London.

U must have heard of a belgiain tourist who got kidnapped and is missing in Iran for several months !...

[singho]

w-bol in London I have seen a Punjabi new arrival type drop his pants in a subway in a busy urban area, and use it as a toilet. He didn't care who was watching. Obviously this guy was not a Brahmin.. So you tell me which is better now - Iran or India?? Right at this present moment in time. From Iran, land of Aryans, we derive the notion of purity and cleanliness which is the basis for Vedic Brahmanism too. Purity and cleanliness is purely an Iran-Aryan concept which spread eastward to India in Vedic times. But which is now forgotten in modern India?

So being completely objective, and ignoring the strained diplomatic relations with European countries and USA for the time being, Iran wins hands down against Pakistan and India. Who cares about alliances which will all reverse in due course anyway? The people of Iran have some humanity and compassion. Contrary to what you're saying the girlfriend-boyfriend relationships in Iran are very common, and fit inside a cultural framework involving vows being consenting adults. Your perspective on Iran is very skewed. Persia is an ancient civilisation.

On human rights, respect for life, forward-thinking and democratic values, India has nothing to say to Iran.

[Kavita]

sat sri akal. Singho I think in all countries there is good and bad. But maybe wahegurubol veer ji knows what he is talking about!

[wahegurubol]

w-bol in London I have seen a Punjabi new arrival type drop his pants in a subway in a busy urban area, and use it as a toilet. He didn't care who was watching. Obviously this guy was not a Brahmin.. So you tell me which is better now - Iran or India?? Right at this present moment in time. From Iran, land of Aryans, we derive the notion of purity and cleanliness which is the basis for Vedic Brahmanism too. Purity and cleanliness is purely an Iran-Aryan concept which spread eastward to India in Vedic times. But which is now forgotten in modern India?

So being completely objective, and ignoring the strained diplomatic relations with European countries and USA for the time being, Iran wins hands down against Pakistan and India. Who cares about alliances which will all reverse in due course anyway? The people of Iran have some humanity and compassion. Contrary to what you're saying the girlfriend-boyfriend relationships in Iran are very common, and fit inside a cultural framework involving vows being consenting adults. Your perspective on Iran is very skewed. Persia is an ancient civilisation.

On human rights, respect for life, forward-thinking and democratic values, India has nothing to say to Iran.

Nah, all that you wrote is pure BS. Singho, you are Javanmard with another Id or perhaps you are just another Iranian... this cant be coming from a Singh

[wahegurubol]

Contrary to what you're saying the girlfriend-boyfriend relationships in Iran are very common, and fit inside a cultural framework involving vows being consenting adults. .

How can you say such relationships are common, when Iran has a Moral-Police that will spy on your private life and if they find you involved in such relations..then you risk yourself being executed..especially the risk is greater to the female community.

[singho]

w-bol please restrict yourself to addressing the matters under discussion if indeed you are capable of rational debate, and refrain from making baseless allegations about me being someone else. I am not Javanmard.

FYI, in Iran the institution of sigheh is common and widespread. It means that couples can formally commit themselves to each other in a monogamous relationship for a finite period of time, without the complication of going through divorce procedures. Effectively, it means that if a man and a woman are attracted to each other and both give their mutual consent, they can enter into sexual relations without breaking any laws and without inviting the attention of state officials. You obviously don't have a clue about Iran to think this is 'pure BS'. I suggest you read this:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/tmpmrig.htm

On the other matter of the Punjabi fellow I saw in the subway, I aver that this is the truth. I saw it with my own eyes, in the light of day. The guy noticed me, but didn't seem even slightly ashamed. IN FACT HE WAVED. This is what much of Indian society is like. Important exception: high caste people and Parsis. I would have liked to have given him a kicking for waving at me while doing that, but I didn't want to become impure and unclean like he obviously was. I was singularly unimpressed.

The streets of Iran, unlike the parts of London frequented by certain sections of the Indian community, are clean.

Now YOU tell ME:

How safe is it for couples to go through the villages in India without being raped??? Honest answer please.

[Xylitol]

you guys are both giving ridiculous and insanely exaggerated arguments. in kaljug, the majority of countries are ''bad''.

[wahegurubol]

w-bol please restrict yourself to addressing the matters under discussion if indeed you are capable of rational debate, and refrain from making baseless allegations about me being someone else. I am not Javanmard.

FYI, in Iran the institution of sigheh is common and widespread. It means that couples can formally commit themselves to each other in a monogamous relationship for a finite period of time, without the complication of going through divorce procedures. Effectively, it means that if a man and a woman are attracted to each other and both give their mutual consent, they can enter into sexual relations without breaking any laws and without inviting the attention of state officials. You obviously don't have a clue about Iran to think this is 'pure BS'. I suggest you read this:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/tmpmrig.htm

On the other matter of the Punjabi fellow I saw in the subway, I aver that this is the truth. I saw it with my own eyes, in the light of day. The guy noticed me, but didn't seem even slightly ashamed. IN FACT HE WAVED. This is what much of Indian society is like. Important exception: high caste people and Parsis. I would have liked to have given him a kicking for waving at me while doing that, but I didn't want to become impure and unclean like he obviously was. I was singularly unimpressed.

The streets of Iran, unlike the parts of London frequented by certain sections of the Indian community, are clean.

Now YOU tell ME:

How safe is it for couples to go through the villages in India without being raped??? Honest answer please.

at night its not safe at all.

Now you tell me, you said that they can enter into sexual relationship without breakign the law? what you mean by breaking the law. which law can they break.

your answer dont satisfy me.., and more than that, Iran has a MORAL POLICE. do you know what a MORAL POLICE is? A Moral Police will look into every aspect of your private life of what you do and what you dont do , they can even come to your home while your sleeping just to check if your not committing adultery.

[singho]

at night its not safe at all.

Now you tell me, you said that they can enter into sexual relationship without breakign the law? what you mean by breaking the law. which law can they break.

your answer dont satisfy me.., and more than that, Iran has a MORAL POLICE. do you know what a MORAL POLICE is? A Moral Police will look into every aspect of your private life of what you do and what you dont do , they can even come to your home while your sleeping just to check if your not committing adultery.

There is a law against co-habiting unmarried couples. However, because of sigheh, this law does not impinge on anyone's freedom in any way. In fact, it PREVENTS the problem of rape which is endemic in modern India. That's because every sigheh is registered with the authorities, just like a marriage certificate. So, if your partner consents, then you are free to do what you want behind closed doors. I would support a motion to introduce an equivalent to the sigheh in Western countries, as it not only protects against rape and other unions where one party lacks capacity to consent, but it also protects your wallet. Gold-diggers are not attracted by sigheh, and there is no chance of them taking a share of your estate upon break-up.

Given that there is sigheh in Iran, what's the problem exactly? Do you want to stalk and rape strangers at night? If no, then what's the beef? What is it that you might want to do in Iran, that makes you fear the 'moral police'? Do you want to molest girls on the train or something? If you're homosexual, then did you know that there has never been a case in Iran where someone has been convicted solely on the basis of homosexual acts? That's despite the fact that homosexuality is an offence. Iran is a very tolerant place in practice, but the difference with some other places is that you can't treat it like a red-light district because it's not. Iran has a culture which values respect, honesty and diversity. Like I said, it's an ancient culture and it has its rules. Rules are what makes 'civilisation'. Under the Iranian criminal justice system, rape itself is referred to as an 'immoral act'. It's semantics: moral police versus immoral acts.

The government and judiciary in Iran are highly complex systems, with complex interdependencies. Iran is nothing like Iraq. The only person who thinks it is, is you. And it's safe to walk the streets at night in Iran, unlike India.

So far you have come up with at most 2 examples of injustices having been commited by the legal system in Iran, including the instance of the 16-year old girl hanged from a crane. Javanmard helpfully explained the actions taken against the judge responsible for that decision, but you had him banned. This story of the 16-year old girl is all over the media, but the judicial and political review following that event is not.

This here is SikhAwareness and we are interested in knowing about Iran, Shirin Ebadi and the real nature of the Iranian regime. We are less interested in your personal opinions. It is indeed disappointing that all you seem to have to offer us is hatred, and that you have not once cited any of the many documentary sources concerning the matters under discussion here.

[wahegurubol]

I have not cited any documentarly sources, where have you cited your documentary sources?

Moral police is one of the most troublesome in Iran, they loot in people public custory and harass females who come in their custory. They are the ones who often drug people and harrass them at night. What are you talking about ?

If Iran is so free then go and live there and enjoy yourself !

Debate closed.

[wahegurubol]

I dont have to provide documentary sources, you can just look up on the net and find so many. Show me one documentary source that Iran is a free country ??

US embassy has WARNED its citizens to travel to Iran. Cos they may never return

I have posted photos of people being executed publically !! infront of an audience like show... thats more than enough of a source to imply it as a NO-GO country.