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Freedom In Iran


wahegurubol
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Mr. Shamsher aka Javanmard aka Singho

Look brother , I have nothing against you. I am no trying to prove that one country is better than the other. Infact soul has not countries, no caste nothing.

But I am just trying to show to you that the things that you are trying to say about Iran are not true, you also know that they are not true, but still you insist on proving "I am better than You"---TYPE of attitude. This is not where the discussion is going on.

Alright then, Just answer me the below mentioned questions in only yes or no.

In Iran :

1)Is it allowed to do the parade of Panj Pyares on streets with all the sangats , displaying their gatkas and related demonstrations. I mean on the streets. With full saroop

2)Is it allowed to carry the savarie of SGGS on the streets, with full respect, in full maryada ..without anyone stopping you?

3)Are you allowed to wear your kirpan outside your clothes , like they do in Toronto-Canada?

4)Are you allowed to have a radio station totally dedicated to Gurmat, Gurbani.. like they have in Toronto-Canada.

5)Can you do open propoganda in public about Gurmat, Gurbani in Iran?

The answer to those Five questions is NO ! The rest the sangat can decide about Iran.

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w-bol,

As someone who has been on this forum for a number of years, I can confirm that Singho is a different person to Javanmard, to alleviate your doubts on this front.

I am doing this, so you can focus on your arguments and the discussion at hand without continuing to tie yourself up with secondary concerns and non-issues (even if Singho was Javanmard, their arguments still stand and they are what should be addressed not them as individuals).

As previously stated another thread, I am looking forward to your contribution for this to be a good debate.

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Why dont you answer the questions that I have asked in the post. I put this question to Singho, since hes been trying to say that Iran is an all free country.. so let him answer in only YES OR NO ..the following questions, i repeat again :

In Iran :

1)Is it allowed to do the parade of Panj Pyares on streets with all the sangats , displaying their gatkas and related demonstrations. I mean on the streets. With full saroop

2)Is it allowed to carry the savarie of SGGS on the streets, with full respect, in full maryada ..without anyone stopping you?

3)Are you allowed to wear your kirpan outside your clothes , like they do in Toronto-Canada?

4)Are you allowed to have a radio station totally dedicated to Gurmat, Gurbani.. like they have in Toronto-Canada.

5)Can you do open propoganda in public about Gurmat, Gurbani in Iran?

Moreover he has not documentary source to back-up what he is saying, I have backed up everything with sources to internet sites that support my posts.

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w-bol,

For the record, I am not supporting Singho or Javanmard or for that matter you, I am interested in the debate at hand, which is revealing some interesting new information, sadly much of that is being clouded with new (and not so new) information about the personalities of those having the debate, which is something I'm not too interested in.

Back to the debate, as I stated, I am an observer to this debate as I frankly have little value to add (I have never been to Iran and am not familiar with the place enough to make commentary about it), however I don't recall singho stating that Iran is a "free country" in the way you are alluding.

p.s. Why do Sikhs need to "do open propoganda in public about Gurmat", surely "promote" is the word you are looking for?

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by the word propoganda or promote. I only meant to say organising public festivals such as baisakhi on the streets with the parade of panj pyares, Guru Maharaj's savaries... like they do it in Los Angeles and Chicago .. organising Gurmat study camps for kids. Gatka schools... distribution of literature...

all of this is done to keep a communtiy happy and going on !

by saying doing propoganda in public, i meant gursikhs can tell about /talk about gurmat/bani in publicspeeches to... it doesnt mean to convert ! then you got it wrong.

i am only trying to say FREEDOM to practice what you believe INSIDE YOUR HOME AND OUTSIDE YOUR HOME..

which is not in Iran.

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My very good friend, a Singh in full Sikhi saroop just returned from a business trip to Iran. Iran has one thing that no other Muslim country (even UAE) doesn't allow. They allow hoisting the Kesri Nishan Sahib outside the Gurdwara. Other things I've come across years ago is that they address Singhs as "Sardar XYZ Singh" rather than "Mr XYZ Singh". But then again there are some flaws my friend felt, like people laugh at Sikhs and pass comments, which happens a lot in our "beloved" western countries as well.

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Why dont you answer the questions that I have asked in the post. I put this question to Singho, since hes been trying to say that Iran is an all free country.. so let him answer in only YES OR NO ..the following questions, i repeat again :

In Iran :

1)Is it allowed to do the parade of Panj Pyares on streets with all the sangats , displaying their gatkas and related demonstrations. I mean on the streets. With full saroop

2)Is it allowed to carry the savarie of SGGS on the streets, with full respect, in full maryada ..without anyone stopping you?

Iran is a theocracy. The real question is: why do you want to do those things in the world's only Shia Islamic theocracy? Is it to provoke people or cause disruption? Is there ANY Sikh religious source that says you have to do these public displays? Why should the whole world accommodate your colossal ego? Such disruptive parades should be banned in UK, USA, Canada in my view.

3)Are you allowed to wear your kirpan outside your clothes , like they do in Toronto-Canada?

Are you sure you're allowed to wear a kirpan outside your clothes in Canada? Is it a kirpan if it is not a weapon (i.e. you're not allowed to use it even in self-defense)? Yes it's OK in Iran but keep it under your clothes unless you like to cause confusion and misunderstanding.

4)Are you allowed to have a radio station totally dedicated to Gurmat, Gurbani.. like they have in Toronto-Canada.

Is a radio station now on your list of religious 'rights' too? Do you think calling it a 'Gurbani' radio station gives you unlimited license to play propaganda and double-glazing/carpet adverts to all and sundry, to a simple looped accompaniment, all over the world all day long? We have plenty of such radio stations here in UK. People using 'Gurbani' to take refuge, while spouting diatribe.

5)Can you do open propoganda in public about Gurmat, Gurbani in Iran?

This is what's so attractive about Iran. You don't get Sikh knocking on your door wanting to stand for local elections, collect for gold-plated dome on gurdwara building (line a dome or a pocket - whatever), and spewing mindless unresearched PROPAGANDA (your word not mine) to brainwash otherwise right-thinking people who are far better off without their brand of Sharia-Maryada Sikhi. The Iranian people are far more sophisticated than that.

If there was someone erudite and sophisticated enough to inform the Iranian people about Gurbani, people like you would have had him pelted with rocks and driven out of the community by now...

Moreover he has not documentary source to back-up what he is saying, I have backed up everything with sources to internet sites that support my posts.

I'm not going to spell out what a documentary source is, but a few journalistic articles Googled up from the net citing no stats on any authority mean nothing and carry no weight. They are not even tertiary sources, but are mere conjecture and personal opinion about Islam and Iran from people who have never been there, in most cases.

Look here now, I've answered your questions. Now go back and answer MY questions about what you want to do, that's prohibited by the 'Moral Police'. Address the matter of the definition of 'moral' and 'immoral' in Iran. Then address the matter of sigheh. I'm being patient with you here. This isn't Sikhsangat so being hysterical is not any indication that you are a good-Sikh or anything like that (actually we don't care if you're the opposite).

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Again.. You have no documentary Source !!! google one documentary source that supports your views and I will believe u.. but you have none.

Second, You didnt answer my questions, I didnt ask for your comments/explanations I just wanted a "Yes" or a "No" answer to the question , I typed.

So I will answer the questions myself.

1)Is it allowed to do the parade of Panj Pyares on streets with all the sangats , displaying their gatkas and related demonstrations. I mean on the streets. With full saroop

ANSWER : NO. THIS MEANS ONE CANNOT CELEBRATE POPULAR FESTIVALS LIKE BAISAKHI. DO A JALOOS OR A PARADE.

2)Is it allowed to carry the savarie of SGGS on the streets, with full respect, in full maryada ..without anyone stopping you?

ANSWER : NO. THIS WILL VERY MUCH OFFEND THE IRANIANS ON THE OTHERHAND IN OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE INDIA-USA-CANADA-UK, WHERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE OF ALL CULTURES AND RELIGIONS, YOU CAN STILL CARRY THE SAROOP OF SGGS WITH FULL RESPECT AND FULL REHAT

3)Are you allowed to wear your kirpan outside your clothes , like they do in Toronto-Canada?

ANSWER : NO,

I HAVE BEEN TO IRAQ, INDIA, BAHRAIN, DUBAI, IRAN, USA, CANADA, CYPRUS, SYRIA, LEBANON.

IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT FREEDOM OF WEARING KIRPAN OUTSIDE CLOTHES OTHER THAN INDIA. I WOULD VOTE FOR CANADA.

LAND AT TORONTO INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT YOU WILL SEE TAXI DRIVERS WEARING DUMALLAS AND KIRPANS OUTSIDE THE SHIRT....

GOTO MALTON GURUDWARA AND YOU WILL SEE BIBI JIS AND MENS WEARING KIRPAN OUTSIDE..WITH FULL FREEDOM.

TALK ABOUT IRAN. WHY WOULD I WANT TO LIVE IN IRAN, IN A COUNTRY WHERE MY KIRPAN CAN CREATE MISUNDERSTANDING...SHEET TO YOU IRAN.

4)Are you allowed to have a radio station totally dedicated to Gurmat, Gurbani.. like they have in Toronto-Canada.

ANSWER : NO,

DURING MY STAY IN TORONTO, I WAS RIDING ON THE TAXI AND ON THE RADIO I GOT THE CHANCE TO LISTEN TO A BEAUTIFUL SHABAD... IT PLEASED MY HEART SO MUCH THAT CANADA GRANTS FULL RIGHTS TO SIKHS SO THAT THEY CAN RUN RADIO STATION ON WHICH WE CAN LISTEN TO GURBANI KIRTAN, PATH.. I WAS HAPPY.. AND I WAS THANKFUL !!! I WAS VERY HAPPY.

5)Can you do open propoganda in public about Gurmat, Gurbani in Iran?

ANSWER : NO,

GOTO CHICAGO, LOS ANGELES, VANCOUVER, YOU WILL SEE GURMAT SAMAGAM CAMPS FOR CHILDREN RUNNING OUTDOORS, GATKA CAMPS OUTDOORS... NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING.. IF YOU DO THIS IRAN, THEY WILL EXECUTE YOU.

CONCLUSION : IRAN IS A NO-GO COUNTRY

END OF TOPIC, END OF DEBATE.

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Iran is a theocracy. The real question is: why do you want to do those things in the world's only Shia Islamic theocracy? Is it to provoke people or cause disruption? Is there ANY Sikh religious source that says you have to do these public displays? Why should the whole world accommodate your colossal ego? Such disruptive parades should be banned in UK, USA, Canada in my view.

Thats what I am saying, they will provoke the people, so as for Iran you trying to support Iran as a freedom-liking and a good country... flaws here !

While there is no source that says such displays are necessary, but such parades form our community, it is a way of DOING SAT-SANGAT, it is a way of getting togther learning about ourselves and our culture..celebrating ourselves with the Guru... and knowing more about sikhie.

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My very good friend, a Singh in full Sikhi saroop just returned from a business trip to Iran. Iran has one thing that no other Muslim country (even UAE) doesn't allow. They allow hoisting the Kesri Nishan Sahib outside the Gurdwara. Other things I've come across years ago is that they address Singhs as "Sardar XYZ Singh" rather than "Mr XYZ Singh". But then again there are some flaws my friend felt, like people laugh at Sikhs and pass comments, which happens a lot in our "beloved" western countries as well.

Yes you are right.. about the Nishan Sahib..

why do they let you host the Nishan Sahib?????? do you know the answer...

Just do a google search on the iranian flag.. infact the iranian flag is exactly the same as the nishan sahib.... hahahahaha..this is why they let you hoist the nishaan sahib ! and this is why other muslim countries wont let you.

infact i have seen someone people here with small nishan sahibs in their cars but when i see the drivers, i found they were iranians.

Canada has a lot of respect...for us... Canada should be the Next Punjab..balle balle.

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