NALWA_DAL Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234933755 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 This was bound to happen. Anyways, all the best veeray No hard feelings, and God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 "Bahadur Singh Reverts To Shi'a Islam" I wasn't aware he had ever left it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Great news, hope he finds peace there. No point having one feet in one boat and other feet in other boat, one have to decide which boat to be in in order to cross the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSG Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Dont get me wrong here i'm not trying to cause any negative vibes , its your decision and we respect that . The name change why Bahadur Ali Singh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 N30 Singh Ji, the question is, what is the boat, and are we able to recognise it? The mutlitude of answers to this question is what causes all the existing and evolving differences we see today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahegurubol Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Just yesterday only I was listenning to katha . Someone who first gives himself to the Guru and then ditches to the Guru and goes to another place. Never finds peace in lok and parlok ! Such a person the author compared to a married woman who ditches her husband and goes toanother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I don't think his heart was ever in Sikhi and neither were his karms such that he could take advantage of any company of Gurmukhs. In the end everyone is responsible for their own actions and as such each of us will have to answer for whatever we do. He came to Sikhi with his own ideas and previous beliefs many of which were against Sikhi such as his unhealthy obsession for the Shia leaders. Personally I don't this is a loss to Sikhi as having someone who was never a Sikh in his heart keeping the Bana of the Guru is liable to mislead a lot of people. Already the Shias on that site are asking him to 'work on' on his Sikh crew or the people who he used to take to the Shia siapa. I hope that the Sikhs who were so influenced by this guy and able to see what comes out of following a person like him. Now that he is a Shia it is easier to understand what all his previous arguments were leading him to. The ironic thing is that the people he called Ram Raias are very much still in Sikhi and he has become a Tankahiya! He complained a few months ago that he was not being treated properly and that someone who was a Shia was getting his tickets paid for him to speak. Let's see if the Shia will be so jubilant if true to form he starts perverting their beliefs as he did with Sikhi when he was in the bhes of a Sikh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsingh Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 jy ko gur qy vymuKu hovY ibnu siqgur mukiq n pwvY ] jay ko gur tay vaimukh hovai bin satgur mukat na paavai. One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation. pwvY mukiq n hor QY koeI puChu ibbykIAw jwey ] paavai mukat na hor thai ko-ee puchhahu bibaykee-aa jaa-ay. He shall not find liberation anywhere else either; go and ask the wise ones about this. Anyk jUnI Brim AwvY ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ] anayk joonee bharam aavai vin satgur mukat na paa-ay. He shall wander through countless incarnations; without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation. iPir mukiq pwey lwig crxI siqgurU sbdu suxwey ] fir mukat paa-ay laag charnee satguroo sabad sunaa-ay. But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, chanting the Word of the Shabad. khY nwnku vIcwir dyKhu ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ]22] kahai naanak veechaar daykhhu vin satgur mukat na paa-ay. ||22|| Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there is no liberation. ||22|| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NALWA_DAL Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I want to know was he a born sikh ? If no who was he before coming to sikhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsingh Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 who knows there is much confusion . Maybe someone has met him in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I gotta question, is there any difference between sunni intiation to islam compare to shia intiation to islam: do they both ask to repeat in shahadat- Prophet mohammad sahib will be your last saviour/god's true messengers in this earth? If thats a case then muslims regardless which sect they are from- sufi, shia, sunni etc, do not equate anyone with prophet mohammad but consider eastern religious prophets as shah/faqirs/pirs etc...kinda throws whole theory of bahudar ali's beleif imam ali [who is also consider same as prophet mohammad of islam] being full with divine and sri guru nanak came from imam ali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 A bit curious, but not overly surprising considering his posts. Hope he finds peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I gotta question, is there any difference between sunni intiation to islam compare to shia intiation to islam: do they both ask to repeat in shahadat- Prophet mohammad sahib will be your last saviour/god's true messengers in this earth? If thats a case then muslims regardless which sect they are from- sufi, shia, sunni etc, do not equate anyone with prophet mohammad but consider eastern religious prophets as shah/faqirs/pirs etc...kinda throws whole theory of bahudar ali's beleif imam ali [who is also consider same as prophet mohammad of islam] being full with divine and sri guru nanak came from imam ali. Some Shias add the words 'Ali is a friend of God' at the end of the Shahada. I'm not sure if Bahadur Ali did that when he converted or re-converted ( since Muslims think everyone is born a Muslim then probably it would be re-re-reconversion) to Shia Islam. If he did say the Ali thing then probably over 90% of the Muslims today would think him a Kafir. His re-re-reconversion is not a big deal, the thing is that a lot of bukwas has been spread by him about the links between Sikhi and Shias which will take years to undo as well as the effect he had on a few Sikhs who chose to follow his manmat. Some Sikhs go all ga ga over the fact that some Muslims call Guru Nanak as a Pir when we should be taking issue with such mischief as it is designed to relegate the Guru who is the one whose teachings will ferry all across the ocean of life into just a plain pir following the teachings of a 7th century 'prophet'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 He was born a Roman Catholic and is Portuguese. I think he will keep the bana, causing more confusion......since he believes that the 5Ks are from some long lost Shia tradition. What i don't get is how someone can "give his head" by taking Amrit, then take it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 kinda throws whole theory of bahudar ali's beleif imam ali [who is also consider same as prophet mohammad of islam] being full with divine and sri guru nanak came from imam ali.Veerji I don't think Hazrat Muhammad Sahib and Imam Ali are one person. And lets remember what Gurbani says: "Sab te vadda SatGur Nanak jin kal raakhi meri". No one is above Satguru Jee. And I fully agree with tonyhp32 veerji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I think it's a little unfair to be talking about Javanmard now that he is not here. Better to go to Shiachat.com and ask him these questions directly. His background etc has nothing to do with anything. Secondly, I don't think anyone qualifies as Dharamraj here, everyone can see what has gone on and can come to their own conclusion, there is no point in trying to play judge and jury, it's a free world, he is entitled to his research, his bias and his decisions. The difference in the Shia shahada is that this line is added on - wa-Aliyun waliyu 'llah - and Ali is the beloved of Allah. Where as the Prophet is the message bringer (law bringer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirpa_karo Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 "khasam shhodd dhoojai lagae ddubae sae vanajaariaa || Those dealers who abandon their Lord and Master and attach themselves to another, are drowned." (Guru Nanak - ANG 470) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Portion from today's Hukamnama... http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...&PageNo=855 koeI inMdku hovY siqgurU kw iPir srix gur AwvY ][/font:f0da205e4d] koee ni(n)dhak hovai sathiguroo kaa fir saran gur aavai || If someone slanders the True Guru, and then comes seeking the Guru's Protection, ipCly gunh siqguru bKis ley sqsMgiq nwil rlwvY ][/font:f0da205e4d] pishhalae guneh sathigur bakhas leae sathasa(n)gath naal ralaavai || the True Guru forgives him for his past sins, and unites him with the Saints' Congregation. AND eyh vifAweI siqgur inrvYr ivic ijqu imilAY iqsnw BuK auqrY hir sWiq qV AwvY ][/font:f0da205e4d] eaeh vaddiaaee sathigur niravair vich jith miliai thisanaa bhukh outharai har saa(n)th tharr aavai || Such is the glorious greatness of the True Guru, who has no vengeance; meeting with Him, thirst and hunger are quenched, and instantly, one attains celestial peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 when did he slander the Guru??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 In earlier posts he has said Gurujee was not comparable to the Prophet or the Imam, and infact called Gurujee as some other "degree" of saint...I don't recall what exactly. Calling Gurujee a Shia Muslim automatically implies that Gurujee followed Hazrat Muhammad Sahib and Imam Ali, while Gurbani says "Sab te vadda SatGur Nanak". I'd consider it nindya to degrade Gurujee this way. Am I wrong? Gurujee didn't go to Mecca because it wasn't safe? Gurujee couldn't turn around the Kaaba? "SatGur mera vadd samratha"! He can do anything. Am I wrong here a well? Please do correct me wherever I am wrong. I am not out to offend anyone. I'll be last person to point fingers at anyone who converts because I myself wasn't born into a Sikh family. But I am not comparing myself to anyone here. I am glad as the lowest of the low. Just know that it is not proper to start speaking against the faith and people you've been with for a long time once you change tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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