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Waheguru wears a dastaar?


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So recently i was listening to Giani Thakur Singh Katha, i think i am addicted to their katha. But under the katha named "Sant Ji the Jeeven- about Bhai Jarnail Singh Bindrwale" They said that Waheguru Ji wears a blue dastaar, and has many shastars, and god looks exactly like Badshah Darwesh Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

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I heard this too from gyani thakur singh ji japji sahib katha. This shouldnt be taken literally because it directly contradicts teachings of sri guru nanak dev ji in the mool mantar describing the lachan of nirgun paratma- gyani thakur singh ji is a parcharik, he has to say these things to increase sharda in the sangat to adapt khalsa bana.

One needs to consider concept of sargun/nirgun form of vahiguroo tries to limit vahiguroo only as keshadhari which is only one of the form of sargun vahiguroo out of many..so we shouldnt take the parcharik things literally, always try to weigh with sidhant of our guru's via gurbani.

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Deepsingh, in the Katha you mention, Gyani Thakur Singh Ji are narrating what Sant Jarnail Singh Ji experienced. As Gurbani says, ultimately Waheguru has no form, but at the same time can take whatever form they like and give you darshan in a form that you can relate to.

Bhagat Namdev Ji and Bhagat Kabir both describe how they saw Akaal Purkh - Bhagat Kabir Ji mentions their beautiful "Pagri" and Bhagat Namdev their long hair.

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If someone asks you "Have you seen God?", say to him/her with a smile while looking straight at their face "I am seeing God right now".

thats a excellent reply :D, Nevertheless, this should be naturally our aim. As yogi bhajan said,

"If you cannot see god in all, you cannot see god at all."

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Nowhere in Gurbani does Bhagat Dhanna ji say that he attained God through worshiping a stone.

Ang 487

Awsw bwxI Bgq DMny jI kI

aasaa baanee bhagath dhha(n)nae jee kee

Aasaa, The Word Of Devotee Dhanna Jee:

<> siqgur pRswid ]

ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

BRmq iPrq bhu jnm iblwny qnu mnu Dnu nhI DIry ]

bhramath firath bahu janam bilaanae than man dhhan nehee dhheerae ||

I wandered through countless incarnations, but mind, body and wealth never remain stable.

lwlc ibKu kwm lubD rwqw min ibsry pRB hIry ]1] rhwau ]

laalach bikh kaam lubadhh raathaa man bisarae prabh heerae ||1|| rehaao ||

Attached to, and stained by the poisons of sexual desire and greed, the mind has forgotten the jewel of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

ibKu Pl mIT lgy mn baury cwr ibcwr n jwinAw ]

bikh fal meet(h) lagae man bourae chaar bichaar n jaaniaa ||

The poisonous fruit seems sweet to the demented mind, which does not know the difference between good and evil.

gun qy pRIiq bFI An BWqI jnm mrn iPir qwinAw ]1]

gun thae preeth badtee an bhaa(n)thee janam maran fir thaaniaa ||1||

Turning away from virtue, his love for other things increases, and he weaves again the web of birth and death. ||1||

jugiq jwin nhI irdY invwsI jlq jwl jm PMD pry ]

jugath jaan nehee ridhai nivaasee jalath jaal jam fa(n)dhh parae ||

He does not know the way to the Lord, who dwells within his heart; burning in the trap, he is caught by the noose of death.

ibKu Pl sMic Bry mn AYsy prm purK pRB mn ibsry ]2]

bikh fal sa(n)ch bharae man aisae param purakh prabh man bisarae ||2||

Gathering the poisonous fruits, he fills his mind with them, and he forgets God, the Supreme Being, from his mind. ||2||

igAwn pRvysu gurih Dnu dIAw iDAwnu mwnu mn eyk mey ]

giaan pravaes gurehi dhhan dheeaa dhhiaan maan man eaek meae ||

The Guru has given the wealth of spiritual wisdom; practicing meditation, the mind becomes one with Him.

pRym Bgiq mwnI suKu jwinAw iqRpiq AGwny mukiq Bey ]3]

praem bhagath maanee sukh jaaniaa thripath aghaanae mukath bheae ||3||

Embracing loving devotional worship for the Lord, I have come to know peace; satisfied and satiated, I have been liberated. ||3||

joiq smwie smwnI jw kY AClI pRBu pihcwinAw ]

joth samaae samaanee jaa kai ashhalee prabh pehichaaniaa ||

One who is filled with the Divine Light, recognizes the undeceivable Lord God.

DMnY Dnu pwieAw DrxIDru imil jn sMq smwinAw ]4]1]

dhha(n)nai dhhan paaeiaa dhharaneedhhar mil jan sa(n)th samaaniaa ||4||1||

Dhanna has obtained the Lord, the Sustainer of the World, as his wealth; meeting the humble Saints, he merges in the Lord. ||4||1||

Correct me if I am wrong, but Gyani Pinderpal Singh ji also says that these sakhis about God appearing out of a stone are misinterpreted by readers. I am only trying to understand thrhough Gurbani, and Gurbani condemns idol worship (eg. Bhagat Kabir jee). How could Gurbani contradict itself? Is it possible that at one place idol worship is condemned, and advocates it another place? I don't think so :)

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Nowhere in Gurbani does Bhagat Dhanna ji say that he attained God through worshiping a stone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Gyani Pinderpal Singh ji also says that these sakhis about God appearing out of a stone are misinterpreted by readers. I am only trying to understand thrhough Gurbani, and Gurbani condemns idol worship (eg. Bhagat Kabir jee). How could Gurbani contradict itself? Is it possible that at one place idol worship is condemned, and advocates it another place? I don't think so :)

It is the lifestory of bhagat Dhaana ji that I've heard from numerous sources. In Sikhi I have yet to hear one consistent story about any bhagat that everyone agrees upon.

You can easily misinterpret what I said to think that somehow I am advocating the uses of Idols by Sikhs. It is not the Rock that played the role in realization of God. The Rock was just an channel for Bhagat Dhanna's innocent love to project.

Yes the Guru does speak against Idol worshipping, but it is the same Guru that says, Ram Ram Karta Subh Jug firay, Raam na Payia Jayay. How is this not speaking against the act of Jap. But obviously any Sikh with a good understanding can see exactly what is being rejected in those words and what isn't. The same applies to the refrences to Moorti Poojaks.

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Yes the Guru does speak against Idol worshipping, but it is the same Guru that says, Ram Ram Karta Subh Jug firay, Raam na Payia Jayay. How is this not speaking against the act of Jap. But obviously any Sikh with a good understanding can see exactly what is being rejected in those words and what isn't. The same applies to the refrences to Moorti Poojaks.

Lets look at the complete Shabad.

Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Bihaagraa on Ang 555

slok mÚ 3 ]

salok ma 3 ||

Salok, Third Mehla:

rwmu rwmu krqw sBu jgu iPrY rwmu n pwieAw jwie ]

raam raam karathaa sabh jag firai raam n paaeiaa jaae ||

The entire world roams around, chanting, ""Raam, Raam, Lord, Lord"", but the Lord cannot be obtained like this.

Agmu Agocru Aiq vfw Aqulu n quilAw jwie ]

agam agochar ath vaddaa athul n thuliaa jaae ||

He is inaccessible, unfathomable and so very great; He is unweighable, and cannot be weighed.

kImiq iknY n pweIAw ikqY n lieAw jwie ]

keemath kinai n paaeeaa kithai n laeiaa jaae ||

No one can evaluate Him; He cannot be purchased at any price.

gur kY sbid ByidAw ien ibiD visAw min Awie ]

gur kai sabadh bhaedhiaa ein bidhh vasiaa man aae ||

Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, His mystery is known; in this way, He comes to dwell in the mind.

nwnk Awip Amyau hY gur ikrpw qy rihAw smwie ]

naanak aap amaeo hai gur kirapaa thae rehiaa samaae ||

O Nanak, He Himself is infinite; by Guru's Grace, He is known to be permeating and pervading everywhere.

Awpy imilAw imil rihAw Awpy imilAw Awie ]1]

aapae miliaa mil rehiaa aapae miliaa aae ||1||

He Himself comes to blend, and having blended, remains blended. ||1||

The point Gurujee is making here is that Akaal Purakh is inaccessible, unfathomable, unweighable. Here Bani not saying anything against Naam japna. The people who chant the name of God without any understanding (the same old "tota rattan", parrot-repetition) are not the ones who get close to God. Naam Simran in its true sense is not tota rattan. In fact, here Gurujee is stressing on the agamm saroop of Parmaatma, that no mortal can realize Him using indriyaa (senses). Those who chant without understanding, and try to limit Him (this would include idol worshippers as well, right???) don't attain Him.

May Gurujee forgive any mistakes I may have made in interpretting this Shabad. Please correct me wherever you find me wrong.

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Exactly my point sir. All of the Anti-Idol Shabads speak exactly of those who take the literal view that the rock carved out by a man to be the God alone. Where it should've been a step towards that God which is out is also within and around, where it should've been a instrument of Dhyaan, it became a hindrance and that is exactly what the Guru is preaching against in the Anti-Idol references. Just as the Guru speaks against the parrot like repetitions of Paath and Gurmantra as you have said.

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Yup. Another thing is that Akaal Purakh is attained by Guru's kirpa. Gurparsad! Our efforts are useless without that. By the way, nothing in Gurbani condones/supports idol worship, and neither does anything support tota-rattan. The basic rules therefore become love (for Akaal Purakh that a Sikh has) and kirpa (of SatGuru Jee in order to attain Akaal Purakh).

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How does one attain kirpa from guru sahib?

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Mundhaavanee Fifth Mehl on Ang 1429

slok mhlw 5 ]

salok mehalaa 5 ||

Salok, Fifth Mehla:

qyrw kIqw jwqo nwhI mYno jogu kIqoeI ]

thaeraa keethaa jaatho naahee maino jog keethoee ||

I have not appreciated what You have done for me, Lord; only You can make me worthy.

mY inrguixAwry ko guxu nwhI Awpy qrsu pieEeI ]

mai niraguniaarae ko gun naahee aapae tharas paeiouee ||

I am unworthy - I have no worth or virtues at all. You have taken pity on me.

qrsu pieAw imhrwmiq hoeI siqguru sjxu imilAw ]

tharas paeiaa miharaamath hoee sathigur sajan miliaa ||

You took pity on me, and blessed me with Your Mercy, and I have met the True Guru, my Friend.

nwnk nwmu imlY qW jIvW qnu mnu QIvY hirAw ]1]

naanak naam milai thaa(n) jeevaa(n) than man thheevai hariaa ||1||

O Nanak, if I am blessed with the Naam, I live, and my body and mind blossom forth. ||1||

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