Bahadur Ali Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Be Nam-e Khodavand-e Restakhiz Asalamu Alaik Ya Hazrati Nanak Shah shams-e-darvishan Someone here found my post on www.shiachat.com and posted the link. ÃŽ am writing this to confirm that I have indeed reverted back to Shi'ism. I say reverted because according to Islam we are all born Muslims but society and culture diverts us from our true faith. Most of those who have replied to that thread have indulged in much back biting but trust me I won't stoop to the level of Bikramjit Singh and his love for Sunni-Wahabi lies or Mehtab Singh and his childish hukamnamah posts or his obsession with my circumcision. I do indeed consider Baba Nanak to have been a Sufi darvish who founded a brotherhood where Muslims and monotheist Hindus joined in. As such I still consider him as my pir. Muslims like me have existed since the very birth of the Sikh tradition. I have to admit that pronouncing my shahada enabled me to rediscover the beauty of gurbani. The eight or so years I have spent in the Panjabi Sikh community have indeed had a very negative consequence on my love for gurbani. I won't go on about what I think of large sections of the Panjabi Sikh community. Let's just say that I couldn't reconciliate the lofty teachings of the Gurus with the sheer mediocrity, ignorance, racism, superstition and brutality that I found in that community. Of course all communities have problems but let's just say that there is a paradox in combining such horrible people with such pure teachings as those of the Gurus. I consider modern Sikhism to be a living joke and a betrayal of the Gurus. I do also consider all the anti-Muslim elements in the rahit to be inovations introduced mainly by Jatts after Guru Gobind Singh's dissapearance in 1708. The way this community interprets halal and haram and its sheer hatred of Islam are just laughable. I could go on and on and on about negative things but I am not up to that mood. The truth is that all my experiences with Vahiguru simran have been visions of Ahl ul Bayt (as). I think that after some time I had to accept the calling. The experiences I have had in Iranian Shi'a Sufi circles can in no way be compared to what I experienced in the Sikh community. Rest assured I don't wish to convert any of you. Not only because Panjabis make absolutely crazy and superstitious Shi'as but also because Baba Nanak Shah gave his gaddi to a Durga bhagat, Guru Angad thus demonstrating that brotherhood is found in accepting the Other in his otherness. I can't say that I have experienced real brotherhood among Panjabi Sikhs. They are far too attached to this nazi notion of cast be it Neo-sikhs or Sanatanis. At least Sanatanis are clear and honest about their sheer racism and their lack of morals going to to the level of justifying raping Muslim women with the help of a boar's tusk to circumvent Musli yudh. I even had my gurubhai call me a fascist.Then again he's a better Nirmala like and I am happy like to have introduced him to Baba Sher Singh...like. My academic work will now turn to more Iranian and Kurdish subjects. I think in all fairness that I had my share of Panjabism and have decided to spend less time on it for understandable reasons. As for my appearance I intended to keep the three mudre as they derive from Iranian chivalry traditions as found in the Futuwwah Nameh ye Sultani of Kashifi and the Rasail e Javanmardan edited by Henry Corbin. So chill out I am not here to mislead or convert anyone, I have no time to waste on that community. Khoda Hafez Shoma Please close the thread after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjsingh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 It was nice write up! Cheer up man ! and many good wishes on your Spirtual Journey no matter where ever it leads , I am really HAppy for you as I think you are true to your self Khuda Hafiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 All the best Javanmard, I hope you find the acceptance and understanding in your new community. Just remember, when unravelling their history you will there too find different versions of events, history is simply a biased record on the large part, so do bear that in mind this time and be diplomatic in communicating your "opinions" and "theories". Re having visions, I believe that all people have visions of those that play the largest part in their life (who they read about, have respect for, idolise etc) and that your heart was always Shia/Imam Ali orientated, hence it makes no difference what you meditated on. God appears to us in whichever form we choose (be it sub-consciously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 If speaking against degrading the status of Gurujee is childish, stooping low, may I be the lowest of the low, may I be the most childish of all...even if I have to be an embryo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 And yeah, good luck . I am glad you did it for spiritual quest and not for a person of the opposite gender. I just can't stand someone degrading my Guru and saying stuff totally contrary to Gurbani, that too by calling himself a Sikh. The circumcision statement was a question and not poking fun. So chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I think Javanmard has raised some excellent questions on the concept of Sikhi in regards to: -the true definition of Haram Halal -The lack of systems regarding economic, state affairs etc(a sharia is missing) and hereby going on to Whether Sikhi was really intended to be a religion, or rather a spiritiual level for hindues,muslims christians and others to join. etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Please explain (if you care to...) what you mean by "will continue the keep the appearance", and whats "3 mudre", coz it seems familiar although I may have forgotten what it is. Are you going to be a Shia with a Sikh appearance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 three mudre: Kesh, Kirpan and Kechara.. The three mudre are mentioned in Sri Sarbloh Granth, whereas 5 kakaars are not mentioned anywhere untill 19.century. Bahadur Ali Singhs research has made him conlue that these three items originiate from shia chivalry orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 lol...ok...thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 JM, you sound like you are saying goodbye for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 All the best Javanmard, I hope you find the acceptance and understanding in your new community. Just remember, when unravelling their history you will there too find different versions of events, history is simply a biased record on the large part, so do bear that in mind this time and be diplomatic in communicating your "opinions" and "theories". Re having visions, I believe that all people have visions of those that play the largest part in their life (who they read about, have respect for, idolise etc) and that your heart was always Shia/Imam Ali orientated, hence it makes no difference what you meditated on. God appears to us in whichever form we choose (be it sub-consciously). Sorry I missed reading that excellant post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 This thread will be open for a week, so that other members can post their thoughts and any counter points they have to his final post and also this will give chance for bahudar ali to further clarify any misunderstandings people might have against his stance or beleifs. After a week this thread will be closed and bahudar account be disabled. I thought its not fair people talking about him on other thread despite of him being banned, as he raised his concerns that some people spreading lies about him, its only fair to give him chance to clarify the stance. As who would be in better position to clear up any misunderstanding and lies as he claims than him himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehtab Singh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Thats fair enough. Good job by admins/mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Bahadur ji could you please tell us your understanding of the Haram, Halal, Hajamat and Hookah. Haram halal means forbidden/permissable what does it mean for one that enters the Khalsa. does it mean that he is not allowed to do what is forbidden and permissable according to his old religion or? if that is the case, and sikhi does not have a sharia, what sharia is one supposed to follow, if you give it up when entering the fold of the Khalsa. and another thing. what is the english word for hajamat? is it uncut kess, or does it have another meaning such as "look distinct from others" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsingh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Sorry guys, are Bahadur Ali and Javanmard the same people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahadur Ali Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 1. I didn't revert to seek acceptance of a community but to please Allah (swt) 2. I haven't done it for someone of the opposite gender even though I am going to get married to my Iranian fiancée. 3. I have never insulted the Gurus nor shall I ever do Mehtab Singh. Just because I say how low many Panjabi Sikhs doesn't mean I insult the Gurus. Get this out of your head right now. when i write "Asalamu Alaik Ya Hazrati Nanak Shah shams-e-darvishan " it's to honour Guru Nanak. Stop your ignorant comments please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsingh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 How can we please god when god is care free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahadur Ali Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Deepsingh: How can we please god when god is care free? Are you saying that Japuji Sahib is wrong? Japuji Sahib talks about Hukam Razai. Razai comes from the Arabic ridha whic means pleasure or acceptance. Allah (swt) is most perfect and is indeed carefree yet we are to be among those who are in His acceptance by lovingly submitting to his Hukam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Bahadur, i hope you find the peace of mind that has so far eluded you, wit Maharaj Ji's kirpa. One thing i don't understand is that when you took Amrit, you gave your head to Maharaj, how did you then get it back. Also, if you see Sikhi as the continuation of Shiaism, then why go back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahadur Ali Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I have given my head to my Beloved. That hasn't changed at all. Yes the amrit samchar derives from Shi'a chivalry orders but I can't be part of a community that hates Ahl ul Bayt (as) and has so many elements in its rahit that show hatred for Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 "3. I have never insulted the Gurus nor shall I ever do Mehtab Singh. Just because I say how low many Panjabi Sikhs doesn't mean I insult the Gurus. Get this out of your head right now." Brother, don't forget that Parm-Atma exists in us all, there are no collective bad communities, good and bad exists in all. To negatively stereotype a whole community is without doubt to insult Guru, especially as most of Guru's true followers (nearly all of which you have evidently never met), also exist in this community. With Satguru's kirpa, I pray you will find the insight and compassion to phrase your words correctly and in a more Sikh like nature in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsingh Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 LOL. "1. I didn't revert to seek acceptance of a community but to please Allah (swt) " So you reconverted to Islam to please Allah. -- This is contradictory to Sikhi. Allah is not going become better or bigger by you reconverting. Nor will he be any happier or sadder. Everyone of us does or thinks what is best for us. Not for Waheguru. I am little confused why is that when a arabic word is used you automatically think it belongs to Islam. "3. I have never insulted the Gurus nor shall I ever do Mehtab Singh. Just because I say how low many Panjabi Sikhs doesn't mean I insult the Gurus. Get this out of your head right now. when i write "Asalamu Alaik Ya Hazrati Nanak Shah shams-e-darvishan " This is a direct insult to sikhi and Akal Moorat Guru Nanak Dev Ji, because your telling us he was a shia/sufi. Which conterdicts everything Guru Shaiban has written. By calling Guru Nanak Dev Ji a Pir, is a insult because he does not worship Mohammad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahadur Ali Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Oh please stop this! You know exactly what I mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I have given my head to my Beloved. That hasn't changed at all. Yes the amrit samchar derives from Shi'a chivalry orders but I can't be part of a community that hates Ahl ul Bayt (as) and has so many elements in its rahit that show hatred for Muslims... to quote JM.. Did you know about the Sikhs hating ahlul bayt before you came to Sikhi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 I have given my head to my Beloved. That hasn't changed at all. Yes the amrit samchar derives from Shi'a chivalry orders but I can't be part of a community that hates Ahl ul Bayt (as) and has so many elements in its rahit that show hatred for Muslims. Brother, the first line of Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us to be Nirvair, without hate. True Sikhs hate nobody, not even their enemies, unlike the Shia hate for Sunnis and their founders. The Rehit I was given doesn't show hatred for anyone.....doing things differently is not hatred. As far as food, and the trust issues, you know better than most that these came about following betrayals from people who had sworn on the Holy Quran. Also, have you ever thought about why it is that 100% of the people advertising their "dark powers" in the back of Asian newspapers are Muslim Pirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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