Guru Nanak Vs Jesus Christ!

[shaheediyan]

Sorry, many appologies for the silly title... but I thought I could get away with it in this context, this is an interesting read:

http://ia301143.us.archive.org/3/items/com...u00singuoft.pdf

[Pheena]

Was this book written in response to the arrival of the Christian Missionaries in India? If so then I can perhaps understand why the write wrote it...but if not then I must object to the idea of Comparing 2 different Masters from a different time and geographical location. Such comparisons are easily available to gross misinterpretations and judgments which can lead to an arrogant mindset.

I think we tend to assume that every Enlighten soul should exhibit the same personality over time and then compare it with a Guru that we follow. We then somehow try to belittle the others in the aspect of how they were wrong or completely declare them as false because they don't fit 'our' criteria of what they should be. Ironically how we come to such a conclusion that one is or isn't enlightened without first experiencing enlightenment ourselves is beyond me.

[Guest]

I think we tend to assume that every Enlighten soul should exhibit the same personality over time and then compare it with a Guru that we follow. We then somehow try to belittle the others in the aspect of how they were wrong or completely declare them as false because they don't fit 'our' criteria of what they should be. Ironically how we come to such a conclusion that one is or isn't enlightened without first experiencing enlightenment ourselves is beyond me.

this is soo true, sikhs are also victim of this mindset.

[shaheediyan]

Pheena Ji, I think it is very clear that the authors "Missionery" style of writing is clearly a rebuttal against fanatical Christian activity which was taking place during his time (as he clearly points out).

The read is very interestng, particularly in terms of what snippets mentioned re missionery activity and also a demonstration of how well versed Punjab and it's people were before independance.

The language used is really cool, and although I disagree with some points the author makes re Christianity, I can understand how for even the best of us, desperate times call for desperate measures.

The roots of todays popular sant movements were actually established as an offensive against missionery activity, where Sant like Baba Attar Singh Ji went from village to village and did parchaar in a similar fashion to the missioneries i.e. using their instruments (harmonium) and performing parchaar in s similar style (I have posted details of this in the gurmat sangeet section in the past).

I agree with all Pheena Jis sentiments in any case, but it will not change the fact that most people, hold their divine messengers above all others, this is just a perfect example.

But to be fair to the author, if you read the book, you will see that he still gives much credit to Jesus Christ as an ideal devotee, just not as an all round role model i.e. Grihishti (although that is a matter of opinion and conspiracy today....)!

[Xylitol]

I've heard in Giani Thakur Singh's katha that on this path when we reach certain stages we will get darshan of holy beings like Vishnu and Bhrama, as well as our own Guru.

Here's an account from Baba Harnam Singh ji's biography:

One day Baba Ji was in deep meditation when Jesus Christ,

Mohammed Sahib and Bhrigu Rishi Ji together, appeared before him.

Their faces were radiant and had spiritually bright auras around their

heads. After blessing Baba Ji with this vision Hazrat Mohammed Sahib

Ji spoke, ‘‘You are blessed and truly fortunate to whom Guru Nanak

Dev Ji has shown the direct and easy method to attain enlightenment of

Almighty God especially in this age of kalyug. The followers of the

Great Guru Nanak Dev are not deriving the full benefit of his teachings.”

After this, Bhrigu Rishi Ji spoke, ”In our times, we had to

undergo hard penance and rigorous spiritual austerities in order to achieve

enlightenment. The whole life of a man was spent in meditation and

making offerings to God and even then, union with God was hard to

achieve. The true nectar of naam which great Guru Nanak Dev Ji has

brought for his Sikhs is remarkable; even we could not obtain this boon

of naam. No doubt we amassed great spiritual and miraculous powers

through rigorous meditation and penance, including powers to curse or

bless anyone, but we were still deprived of the nectar of naam.”

Jesus Christ just said simply, ”It is my inner desire that my

followers one day adopt the path shown by great Guru Nanak Dev Ji.”

Saying these words, all three prophets disappeared.

[Pheena]

Pheena Ji, I think it is very clear that the authors "Missionery" style of writing is clearly a rebuttal against fanatical Christian activity which was taking place during his time (as he clearly points out).

The read is very interestng, particularly in terms of what snippets mentioned re missionery activity and also a demonstration of how well versed Punjab and it's people were before independance.

The language used is really cool, and although I disagree with some points the author makes re Christianity, I can understand how for even the best of us, desperate times call for desperate measures.

The roots of todays popular sant movements were actually established as an offensive against missionery activity, where Sant like Baba Attar Singh Ji went from village to village and did parchaar in a similar fashion to the missioneries i.e. using their instruments (harmonium) and performing parchaar in s similar style (I have posted details of this in the gurmat sangeet section in the past).

.

But to be fair to the author, if you read the book, you will see that he still gives much credit to Jesus Christ as an ideal devotee, just not as an all round role model i.e. Grihishti (although that is a matter of opinion and conspiracy today....)!

I think i now see the intentions with which this book was written. Thanks for the short summary.

I agree with all Pheena Jis sentiments in any case, but it will not change the fact that most people, hold their divine messengers above all others, this is just a perfect example

Would you consider the post posted by Xylitol an example of this as well?

[Matheen]

most people, hold their divine messengers above all others, this is just a perfect example.

Personally, i think to progress on this path faith is really important - intense faith and pyar may well lead someone to hold their Guru in higher esteem than someone else's. Like having more regard for your dad than your uncle.

[Xylitol]

it's sharda, plain and simple.

sabh thae vaddaa sathigur naanak jin kal raakhee maeree ||4||10||57||

Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||4||10||57||

[Maha Kharag Singh]

in my view this tuk has been misinterpreted so many times, i think it suppopsed to be

sab te vada satguru, Nanak jin kal rakhi meri

the highest of all is satguru (God) Says Nanak who has protected me.

[Guest]

As Xylitol said, its sharda plain and simple. However there is very fine line difference between sharda and dangerous dvaish/dvait mindset which many sikhs have fell, Here is an example of that fine line difference:

Example of sharda:

In one's mind there is full faith towards sri guru nanak dev ji eg- baba nand singh ji maharaj. However, one does not feel need to prove that sharda by debating/discussing/comparing their own ishatdev with others ishatdev. In those minds, there is no dvaish(partiality) or dubta or dvait(duality), all is god, god is all- seeing their ishatdev in everything/everyone.

Example of people diseased with dangerous mindset of my prophet is better than yours:

Completely overlooking at the tat gyan of all the dharams, in ignorance/false pride(jhota ahankar) claiming my prophet is better than yours by comparing avtars life, taking prophets words /gurbani out of context. Usually shariapanthis feel that in order to have full sharda of their own ishatdev they must put down other prophets by comparing them. Gurbani teaches, avtars are sargun form of vahiguroo, are here for certain task to benefit human kind, i just dont understand how others generally speaking can do nindya of other avtars by comparing, you cannot compare them because they all coming from the same source- Nirgun Vahiguroo, if avtars are given different duties how can you compare them, that itself shows people who compare live in dubta and live in dvait which is opposite of gurmat advait marg.

[tonyhp32]

Thanks Shaheediyan for posting the book. The book is one of many published during the British rule in response to the activities of Christian missionaries in Punjab. The books in English are aimed primarily at those Sikh youth who through their studies at Colleges and Universities would come into contact with Christian doctrines and it would equip them with the knowledge to compare the founders of the two religions. Quite a few of the Colleges and Universities were affiliated with Christian Missionary organisations. The Christian Missionaries were very active in Punjab and in the early days of the annexation of Punjab had leased some Bungas in the Harmandir Sahib complex as well in order to preach to the Sikh pilgrims there.

This English book seems tame in comparision to the ones brought out by polemicists of all religions in the native languages. Some books actually led to murder as in the case of the author of Rangila Rasul (the colourful Prophet).

[Mehtab Singh]

With all due respect to satkaarjog Jesus Christ, all we need to do is ask the question if they ever heard about Sahib Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee Maharaj Sachey Patshah, who sacrificed His life for a totally different faith He didn't profess Himself, who didn't demand any acknowledgment or even a minor "thank you" from the Hindus, and didn't even remotely ask them to convert to His faith as a "payback" for His sacrifice (as compared to "No one comes to the Father but through me").

[shaheediyan]

"Would you consider the post posted by Xylitol an example of this as well?"

Yes I do Pheena Ji.

Thanks for the additional info tonyhp32 Ji, makes sense.

I agree with N3O Singh Ji - the following bani taken from Sohila Sahib addresses this topic perfectly in my opinion:

sabh meh jot jot hai so-ay.

tis dai chaanan sabh meh chaanan ho-ay.

gur saakhee jot pargat ho-ay.

[Niranjana]

tonyhp wrote:

This English book seems tame in comparision to the ones brought out by polemicists of all religions in the native languages. Some books actually led to murder as in the case of the author of Rangila Rasul (the colourful Prophet).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please could you provide some further information about the content of "rangila rasul" and its author.

[Mehtab Singh]

in my view this tuk has been misinterpreted so many times, i think it suppopsed to be

sab te vada satguru, Nanak jin kal rakhi meri

the highest of all is satguru (God) Says Nanak who has protected me.

What about these...

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Bilaaval on Ang 820

jo jo srix pirE gur nwnk ABY dwnu suK pwey ]4]1]81]

jo jo saran pariou gur naanak abhai dhaan sukh paaeae ||4||1||81||

Whoever enters the Sanctuary of Guru Nanak, is blessed with the gifts of fearlessness and peace. ||4||||1||81||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Maaroo on Ang 1097

guru nwnku quTw Bwierhu hir vsdw nyVw ]10]

gur naanak thut(h)aa bhaaeirahu har vasadhaa naerraa ||10||

When Guru Nanak is pleased, O Siblings of Destiny, the Lord is seen to be dwelling near at hand. ||10||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Bhairao on Ang 1152

gur nwnk jip jip sd jIvw ]4]43]56]

gur naanak jap jap sadh jeevaa ||4||43||56||

Chanting and meditating forever on Guru Nanak, I live. ||4||43||56||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Basant on Ang 1192

gur nwnk dyv goivMd rUp ]8]1]

gur naanak dhaev govi(n)dh roop ||8||1||

Guru Nanak Dayv is the Embodiment of the Lord of the Universe. ||8||1||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Svaiyay Mehl 5 on Ang 1386

hir guru nwnku ijn prisAau is jnm mrx duh Qy rihE ]5]

har gur naanak jin parasiao s janam maran dhuh thhae rehiou ||5||

Whoever meets with the Lord through Guru Nanak is rid of both birth and death. ||5||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Svaiyay Mehl 5 on Ang 1386

hir guru nwnku ijn@ prisE qy bhuiV iPir join n Awey ]7]

har gur naanak jinh parasiou thae bahurr fir jon n aaeae ||7||

Those who touch the Feet of the Lord through Guru Nanak, do not have to enter the cycle of reincarnation ever again. ||7||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Ang 295

Kym sWiq iriD nv iniD ]

khaem saa(n)th ridhh nav nidhh ||

Comfort, peace and tranquility, wealth and the nine treasures;

buiD igAwnu srb qh isiD ]

budhh giaan sarab theh sidhh ||

wisdom, knowledge, and all spiritual powers;

ibidAw qpu jogu pRB iDAwnu ]

bidhiaa thap jog prabh dhhiaan ||

learning, penance, Yoga and meditation on God;

igAwnu sRyst aUqm iesnwnu ]

giaan sraesatt ootham eisanaan ||

The most sublime wisdom and purifying baths;

cwir pdwrQ kml pRgws ]

chaar padhaarathh kamal pragaas ||

the four cardinal blessings, the opening of the heart-lotus;

sB kY miD sgl qy audws ]

sabh kai madhh sagal thae oudhaas ||

in the midst of all, and yet detached from all;

suMdru cquru qq kw byqw ]

su(n)dhar chathur thath kaa baethaa ||

beauty, intelligence, and the realization of reality;

smdrsI eyk idRstyqw ]

samadharasee eaek dhrisattaethaa ||

to look impartially upon all, and to see only the One

ieh Pl iqsu jn kY muiK Bny ] gur nwnk nwm bcn min suny ]6]

eih fal this jan kai mukh bhanae || gur naanak naam bachan man sunae ||6||

- these blessings come to one who, through Guru Nanak, chants the Naam with his mouth, and hears the Word with his ears. ||6||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Sorath on Ang 611

soriT mhlw 5 ]

sorat(h) mehalaa 5 ||

Sorat'h, Fifth Mehla:

kir iesnwnu ismir pRBu Apnw mn qn Bey Arogw ]

kar eisanaan simar prabh apanaa man than bheae arogaa ||

After taking your cleansing bath, remember your God in meditation, and your mind and body shall be free of disease.

koit ibGn lwQy pRB srxw pRgty Bly sMjogw ]1]

kott bighan laathhae prabh saranaa pragattae bhalae sa(n)jogaa ||1||

Millions of obstacles are removed, in the Sanctuary of God, and good fortune dawns. ||1||

pRB bwxI sbdu suBwiKAw ]

prabh baanee sabadh subhaakhiaa ||

The Word of God's Bani, and His Shabad, are the best utterances.

gwvhu suxhu pVhu inq BweI gur pUrY qU rwiKAw ] rhwau ]

gaavahu sunahu parrahu nith bhaaee gur poorai thoo raakhiaa || rehaao ||

So constantly sing them, listen to them, and read them, O Siblings of Destiny, and the Perfect Guru shall save you. ||Pause||

swcw swihbu Aimiq vfweI Bgiq vCl dieAwlw ]

saachaa saahib amith vaddaaee bhagath vashhal dhaeiaalaa ||

The glorious greatness of the True Lord is immeasurable; the Merciful Lord is the Lover of His devotees.

sMqw kI pYj rKdw AwieAw Awid ibrdu pRiqpwlw ]2]

sa(n)thaa kee paij rakhadhaa aaeiaa aadh biradh prathipaalaa ||2||

He has preserved the honor of His Saints; from the very beginning of time, His Nature is to cherish them. ||2||

hir AMimRq nwmu Bojnu inq BuMchu srb vylw muiK pwvhu ]

har a(n)mrith naam bhojan nith bhu(n)chahu sarab vaelaa mukh paavahu ||

So eat the Ambrosial Name of the Lord as your food; put it into your mouth at all times.

jrw mrw qwpu sBu nwTw gux goibMd inq gwvhu ]3]

jaraa maraa thaap sabh naat(h)aa gun gobi(n)dh nith gaavahu ||3||

The pains of old age and death shall all depart, when you constantly sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe. ||3||

suxI Ardwis suAwmI myrY srb klw bix AweI ]

sunee aradhaas suaamee maerai sarab kalaa ban aaee ||

My Lord and Master has heard my prayer, and all my affairs have been resolved.

pRgt BeI sgly jug AMqir gur nwnk kI vifAweI ]4]11]

pragatt bhee sagalae jug a(n)thar gur naanak kee vaddiaaee ||4||11||

The glorious greatness of Guru Nanak is manifest, throughout all the ages. ||4||11||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Sorath on Ang 612

guru nwnku ijn suixAw pyiKAw sy iPir grBwis n pirAw ry ]4]2]13]

gur naanak jin suniaa paekhiaa sae fir garabhaas n pariaa rae ||4||2||13||

Those who have heard, and seen Guru Nanak, do not descend into the womb of reincarnation again. ||4||2||13||

Bhai Gurdaas Ji in Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 1

siqgur nwnk pRgitAw imtI DuMD jg cwnx hoAw]

sathigur naanak pragattiaa mittee dhhu(n)dhh jag chaanan hoaa||

With the emergence of the true Guru Nanak, the mist cleared and the light scattered all around.

ijauN kr sUrj inkilAw qwry Cpy AMDyr ploAw]

jiou(n) kar sooraj nikaliaa thaarae shhapae a(n)dhhaer paloaa||

As if at the sun rise the stars disappeared and the darkness dispelled.

isMG buky imrgwvlI BMnI jwey n DIr DroAw]

si(n)gh bukae miragaavalee bha(n)nee jaaeae n dhheer dhharoaa||

With the roar of the lion in the forest the flocks of escaping deer now cannot have endurance.

ijQY bwbw pYr DrY pUjw Awsx Qwpx soAw]

jithhai baabaa pair dhharai poojaa aasan thhaapan soaa||

Wherever Baba put his feet, a religious place was erected and established.

isD Awsx sB jgq dy nwnk Awd mqy jy koAw]

sidhh aasan sabh jagath dhae naanak aadh mathae jae koaa||

All the siddh-places now have been renamed on the name of Nanak.

Gr Gr AMdr Drmswl hovY kIrqn sdw ivsoAw]

ghar ghar a(n)dhar dhharamasaal hovai keerathan sadhaa visoaa||

Everyhome has become a place of dharma where singing.

bwby qwry cwr ck nO KMf ipRQmI scw FoAw]

baabae thaarae chaar chak na kha(n)dd prithhamee sachaa dtoaa||

Baba liberated all four directions and nine divisions of earth.

gurmuK kil ivc prgt hoAw ]ò÷]

guramukh kal vich paragatt hoaa ||aa||

Gurmukh (Guru Nanak) has emerged in this kaliyug, the dark age.

The reason I've used only 1 line certain places is to emphasize the fact that there are enough shabads in Gurbani where Nanak is used not just because its the conclusion of the shabad, rather it is specifically singing the glory of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

[tonyhp32]

Rangila Rasul

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rangila Rasul was published during the time of Arya Samaj and Muslim confrontation in Punjab (Undivided india) during 1920s[1].

It was written by an Arya Samaji, Pt. Chamupati in 1924, but the name was never revealed by the publisher Rajpal in Lahore. On the basis of Muslim complaints Rajpal was arrested but acquitted in April, 1929, by a Christian Judge of the Lahore High Court after a five years trial. After several unsuccessful attempts to kill him, he was stabbed to death by a young man Ilam Din[2] on April 6, 1929. He was hanged but was hailed as a martyr, and is now accorded the title of Ghazi.

Originally written in Urdu, it has been translated in Hindi and English, but remains banned in South Asia.

---------------------

Interesting enough Bhagat Lakshman Singh praises Rajpal in his autobiography as one of the most learned men in Punjab at that time. The Rangila Rasul agitation was a prototype of the Satanic Verses and later the Mohammed cartoons agitations.

[Maha Kharag Singh]

where ever you go which ever community you analyse your always going to get that community bigging up their own spiritual leader. The religious experience that veer explained is obviously very subjective and anyone can question whether Jesus Christ really said he wanted his followers to be upon the path of Nanak, and one can even construe that the statement was made as a means of propaganda to stand against the Christian Missionary movements.

However what must be taken into consideration is that the three interlinking western faiths are pro missionary, whereas Sikhi and Buddhism and even Hinduism mysticism to an extent, amplifies the importance of living life without a label, because its these labels that rip us apart as a collective human race, and to be in search of God. Whereas the other three give instruction that we are akin to God and that all we have to do is live in accordance to Gods law.

Just like Satguru Nanak, Jesus Christ was too a revolutionary in his time, where our Satguru spoke out against the tyranny of Islamic rule and the ever dividing caste system and Jesus spoke out against the hypocrisies of the Jewish leaders.

Which ever way you look at it, we all accept that this Earth exists due to the will of God and so do its inhabitants. Anything that God wills is perfect in all ways and that God can NEVER do wrong. Then why the conflicting religious views? Every religion has scripture which has authority, and the originator of those scriptures were principle founders of those religions, and most scriptures were written after the assent of the respective faiths leader. Now is the interpretation of the scripture that has swayed cause rifts between humanity or did every religious leader not share the same universal truth? Even Hinduism which is portrayed as a hardcore polytheistic faith in its core has the universal belief in one all pervading energy.

Now if we look at these missionary religions, they all say (due to their modern day interpretation) that if you do not conform to the way of that faith all will go to hell. Now how can the Lord our God creator of all most compassionate and forgiving allow one sect of creation liberation but the others the gates of hell?

The way I see it is that religions of the world are like nationality, i may be British you maybe Indian he may be Ugandan she maybe an Eskimo but we all belong on the same Earth we are all human we are all from the same kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species we are all Homosapiens, and until we dont see each others as such non of us will see the gates of Sach Khand.

With the lastest stir of event the conversion of Bahadur is one incident where i can be accused of being a hypocrite but the reason for hostility was not because of Islam but because of the social time that we live in which influences the way we perceive things.

Mahakaal Ji Sahai, Baki sab Mahakaal kshama kare!

Jai Jai Shri Mahakaal! Jai Jai Shri Chandika!

Akaaal! Sat Sri Akaal!

[Pheena]

With all due respect to satkaarjog Jesus Christ, all we need to do is ask the question if they ever heard about Sahib Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee Maharaj Sachey Patshah, who sacrificed His life for a totally different faith He didn't profess Himself, who didn't demand any acknowledgment or even a minor "thank you" from the Hindus, and didn't even remotely ask them to convert to His faith as a "payback" for His sacrifice (as compared to "No one comes to the Father but through me").

What necessity is there to compare the sacrifices these 2 personalities made? Will it make us a better Sikh? Will our Guru be proud that we used the sacredness of their sacrifice to belittle the message of another Divine personality?

Are you sure that is what Jesus said word for word? Are you certain that through the ages of translations from language to language that the message has not been somewhat skewed?

If such words of Jesus somehow express arrogance in your eyes then the same arrogance is expressed by those who say only a Sikh can reach God and they too use justifications from the Guru Granth Sahib to support their argument, just as you used the Bible to support your point.

[Guest]

What necessity is there to compare the sacrifices these 2 personalities made? Will it make us a better Sikh? Will our Guru be proud that we used the sacredness of their sacrifice to belittle the message of another Divine personality?

Are you sure that is what Jesus said word for word? Are you certain that through the ages of translations from language to language that the message has not been somewhat skewed?

If such words of Jesus somehow express arrogance in your eyes then the same arrogance is expressed by those who say only a Sikh can reach God and they too use justifications from the Guru Granth Sahib to support their argument, just as you used the Bible to support your point.

excellent post pheena. you posted my exact sentiments on this topic.

[Mehtab Singh]

That is the response I gave to a Christian who was trying to propagate his theory that Jesus is the only way. So your logic applies to him, not to me. Sikhs don't "sell" Sikhi as the "best commodity" (at least I don't). I don't care if someone thinks their faith is the best, but then they should be ready to answer some questions. Singing the love song is all cool but only as long as the other person understands it. If he doesn't, then there are other raags we are given by Gurujee to use. We don't initiate conflict, rather we finish it.

And since you yourself have stated that "through the ages of translations from language to language that the message has not been somewhat skewed", that makes my point even stronger as Gurbani is Akal Purakh's unaltered word. Jesus Christ's words may have been altered by his followers, I don't know, but Gurbani is perfectly unaltered.

I am the last person to badmouth divine personalities as I hold them all in high regard. Be it Shri Ram, Shri Krishan, Hazrat Muhammad Sahib, Imam Ali, Gautam Buddha or Jesus Christ. As far as I know, I don't think I have said anything insulting to any of these on any forum. Besides, comparing is totally different from insulting or slandering. The truth is that all avtars came down to play the role they were supposed to, came to the places and people they were supposed to, did deeds they were supposed to. I did NOT tell this person "Its my Prophet who did this...". I asked him a question "What if I told you about a Prophet who....." and then took it from there. Surprisingly he was left speechless and became a good friend of mine. Why? Because I didn't respond like a fanatic. Rather I put him a question which he couldn't answer. Saying "My Prophet did this..." is directly attacking someone's faith, which is what I didn't do.

And a good post by veer Maha Kharag Singh

[Xylitol]

@ Mehtab: In the Bible, Issa ji is qouted as saying 'my way is not the only way, there are other paths than mine'. I forget where that's from, you might find it in Leviticus.

@ Maha Karag Singh: I disagree that they are very subjective. If ordinary people were saying it I would agree. But this is the jeevan of a great saint, written about by another sant who happens to have an excellent reputation. my friend's met Baba Seva Singh ji and was very impressed with his humility. he's hardly the type who would invent things or take them out of context.

So although I agree with what you guys are saying wrt slandering of other faiths to enhance the greatness of one's own (in some people's eyes), this is one instance where that is not the case. Nor is it missionary imo.

[Pheena]

That is the response I gave to a Christian who was trying to propagate his theory that Jesus is the only way. So your logic applies to him, not to me. Sikhs don't "sell" Sikhi as the "best commodity" (at least I don't). I don't care if someone thinks their faith is the best, but then they should be ready to answer some questions. Singing the love song is all cool but only as long as the other person understands it. If he doesn't, then there are other raags we are given by Gurujee to use. We don't initiate conflict, rather we finish it.

I apologize for accusing you of something, but your post didn't mention you were recalling a discussion with someone else.

And since you yourself have stated that "through the ages of translations from language to language that the message has not been somewhat skewed", that makes my point even stronger as Gurbani is Akal Purakh's unaltered word. Jesus Christ's words may have been altered by his followers, I don't know, but Gurbani is perfectly unaltered.

I am hopefull that the content of the Guru Sahib will remain unaltered for eons to come. But truly who is to say 1500 years from now what the status of this Religion will be? Surely we have technology that will preserve the content and the quality, but sadly such wasn't the case in the Divine personalities of old. I mean its been only 308 years and we are already conflicting over whether some portions of our Shabad Guru is valid or not or over Historical refrences.

I am uncertain that in another 1500 years I will be able to say the same thing as you are saying now. Whether the Historical references that I hear today will be orated or understood in the same manner with the same content...one cannot say for sure. Perhaps by then it will time for another Guru Nanak to take birth, another Buddha to seek to set people straight on the path.

[Mehtab Singh]

I apologize for accusing you of something, but your post didn't mention you were recalling a discussion with someone else.

hai mai marja...leh, hadh hogi yaar...tu apna banda aa, apologize nah kari ja...moderator na howe kisi passey da...

Yes I didn't point out that it was based on my discussion with someone, because that would mean doing my own vaDyaaee, something I don't deserve.

Perhaps by then it will time for another Guru Nanak to take birth, another Buddha to seek to set people straight on the path.

Veeray Guru Nanak comes in our hearts the moment we shed our ego. Don't know about you, but I am light years away as of now.

[Maha Kharag Singh]

@ Maha Karag Singh: I disagree that they are very subjective. If ordinary people were saying it I would agree. But this is the jeevan of a great saint, written about by another sant who happens to have an excellent reputation. my friend's met Baba Seva Singh ji and was very impressed with his humility. he's hardly the type who would invent things or take them out of context.

veere, anyone who has a religious experience is subjective to their surroundings, they circumstances etc. At the time of the respected Mahapurush, Christian Missionary agenda was at an all time high hence why i feel that his religious experience was subjective to the situation and circumstances at the time. Its like dreams they are subjective to your day to day activities.

[Mehtab Singh]

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