Silence Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 This is an honest question, free of any malicious intent. Basically I am pretty disillusioned with gatka as most of these akharas teach, was just wondering is it only Niddar Singh who teaches the true Shastar Vidiya in england? Also do all Nihang dals in india do it the same way, would they be willing to teach me the Guru's full martial art (kirpa naal daas is in sikhi saroop, dumalla etc)? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=74...bjCDA&hl=eN in that video, the unarmed was seriously IMPRESSIVE, but the talwar stuff was basically what I was taught when I used to do gatka. I'm not attacking it, just asking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I don't know if 'the true Shastar Vidiya' really exists anymore - I've heard so many different stories about the origins of what he teaches ( from himself!) that I'm not sure anymore. Also, coming from a varied martial arts background, all of the techniques can be found in other arts as well. The good thing is that you get to train with other Singhs and also learn Nihang boli and traditions. The bad thing is that not everything is true! From what I've seen, different Ustaads within the Nihang Dals teach slightly differently but very few teach the unarmed techniques that Niddar Singh does. There's a BBC program about different martial arts and they showed this ustaad in South India who had very similar techniques to Niddar Singh, check it out: IMHO, i prefer to learn Muay Thai & Krav Maga for 'stand-up' and BJJ for grappling, but you need to find genuine teachers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 thanks for the reply and vid. So you think that not all of Niddar Singh's art is the real vidiya hmmm Thats really strange that their wouldn't be a similarity of technique within the dals, would have thought that they would have preserved it :!: this is really starting to get disheartening, its a shame to see 50% of our heritage is just washing away like this, and quite disrespectfully, what with ustaads mixing up chinese martial arts with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 What matters is effectiveness - if it works, use it. If not, don't bother. I wouldn't worry too much about authenticity. To be honest, Niddar Singh's classes aren't bad, especially if you don't have the time to learn many different arts. The only way you'll find out is to try them yourself, just take the 'history' lessons with a pinch of salt. I think nowadays you have to start of with self-defense and prove your dedication for some time before they teach you the good stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Silence, Where do you live? I would advise you to go to one of his classes around the country. Its all very well asking others how the jalebi tastes, but unless you take even a small bite you will not know. From what I could see (without sound) he WAS demonstrating gatka-fari in the Google video. That is not what he teaches. On another note, I'd like to know from gatka practitioners more about the chakri that they swing around. What is it for, and how is it used in combat. I heard someone say that it is an "arrow-breaker"!!! I think they were just pulling my leg. LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Jattboot, it was historically used for scaring battle elephants (and is still practiced in South India). Fire was lit at the the ends of the ropes forming the outer circle, making the elephants think it was one big fire. Nihang Niddar Singh once chucked a small rock (pretty slowly) at one of these gatka practitioners and they went berserk asking Nihang Ji what the hell he was doing. Nihang Ji said he was testing their claim re stopping arrows (as arrows are obviously hundred of time faster, smaller and come with much more force. The gatka guys said the chakri only worked with arrows not anything else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Thanks for that Shaheediyan. If any gatka Practioners here like we should try and test the effectiveness of a chakri. As a tool for frightening animals I can understand, but for stopping arrows, it is a joke! Eg: If it is spun in front of its user, what do you get... a massive 'shield' above and to the sides of the person but a gaping hole where the inner wheel is... right in front of the users chest!! Not to mention how the thing is always getting in a tangle. Maybe it could/is/was be used by throwing it spinning, at your opponent like a net used by gladiator fighters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithr Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 If the Chakri is spun fast enough then I guess it should be able to stop some arrows. Although I'm not against the Chakri, but I find it strange that Sikhs have almost completely abandoned the beautiful art of archery yet they have preserved using the Chakri. Now that's something to think about. We have no knowledge about archery anymore. We don't even know what type of bow the puraatan Singhs used whether they were Turkish, Mongol, Bhil or some other indigenous bow. Sad really. After knowing how to use the sword, I think archery is the ideal for a Sikh warrior to learn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I totally agree with you Mithr. We as Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh should master the art of archery. And we should be competing at an international level and winning Gold medals in Olympics. Our father is a great archer. I think even Arjun would not be able to match his skills. I was listening to a katha of Baba Hari Singh ji and he mentioned that Guru ji had a very sharp eyesight. He could se clearly upto 2kms with Naked eye without using any spiritual power. And during his training , he would hang weights as high as 250 kgs to his bow and then practising shooting with that weight hanging down. Other Singhs also used to practise like that. Hanging the weights down make your arm stronger and when you shoot, your arm is more stable. Our Bapu is really strong. No one can match Him in any respect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 also we should not forget the art of horseriding as well. i was watching a program on bbc caleed wild china. they showed the moghals still preserving the same traditions exactly ass they did over 1000 years ago. one of them was horse riding and little kids 5 or 6 yeras old were learning to ride and were expert riders when they were 8 years old. we have a "nihang" sitting on a horse which is being held by a bihari!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 S'pose SV, archery and horsemanship are just too time consuming and effortful for todays Sikhs. WHy put the effort into learning such skills when you can carry a double barrelled shotgun, swing a sword around you... very fast! and travel by TATA Sumo? These are easier to learn and look more impressive. In most historical martial arts medicine has always been integral part of the training. With this Sikh version of morris dancing, how many practitioners know what to do when they hit themselves with a sword, either First Aid or Desi Dwaiy/Ayurved? Khuda Hafiz! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Most of the issues of lost heritage referred to here seem to be based on western teachers of gatka lacking the deeper knowledge. In India, one can learn many lost techniques from the proper teacher. I remember not too long ago I found a book (whse name I forget) at the local library describing energy point attacks, my name for precise strikes that target the individual's organ systems, can cause disease, and even death via attack on the nervous system and the individual's chi/prana (life energy). knowledge of subtle energy, also held in what's known as ''soft'' martial arts when referring to tai chi, bagua and other chinese martial arts, is held by teachers such as Jathedar Mann Singh ji of Akali Guru Nanak Dal. Many of these techniques in China were kept gupt and only now are some becoming shown to the world. I think in Sikh dharm same thing has happened, just they have not become shown yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 And during his training , he would hang weights as high as 250 kgs to his bow and then practising shooting with that weight hanging down. Other Singhs also used to practise like that. I agree Guru Ji was very Strong but hanging weights to the bow? 250KGs? On a Woodern bow? Im sorry but this doesnt sound authentic? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipledgeblue Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 i think they do archery on the floor below during Nihang Niddar Singh's classes, if you go to the balcony behind the curtains in Cranford Community lol. (This was when classes were at normal time) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Mystical, many bows were steel rather than wooden. There's a Sikh bow at the Wallace collection in London that needs over 100kg force just to string it...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I didnt mean any offense to Ragmaala, I was jus curious. But thanks for clearing that up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithr Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Mystical, many bows were steel rather than wooden. There's a Sikh bow at the Wallace collection in London that needs over 100kg force just to string it...... Puraatan Singhs were so strong. Guru Sahib kirpa karn. I hope one day Khalsa of tomorrow will be strong and powerful like the Khalsa of the past. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Mithr What was so special with the Puraatan Singhs that made them so strong? Did they eat whole chatka'd goats or practice yoga and pranayam? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithr Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I could be wrong, but I feel they read alot of Bani and did alot of Naam and have unshakable trust in their Guru which todays Khalsa(including me) dont do. All we have left is just eating Chakta. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmeet Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 does anyone know if niddar singh's class is still running on sunday's in birmingham? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yes, Sunday mornings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmeet Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 excellent. still at namdhari hall? and what time does it start? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 WOLVERHAMPTON (Fridays 6pm - 9:30pm) Location: Guru Tegh Bahadur Gurudwara, Upper Villiers Street,Blakenhall,Wolverhampton SLOUGH (Saturdays 1pm · 3pm) Location: Christchurch, Wexham Road, Slough, Berks, SL2 5QY (Note: immediately on the right after the 2nd bridge on Wexham Road driving up from Bath Road and opposite Lea Nursery School) CRANFORD/HOUNSLOW (Saturdays 4.30pm · 7.30pm) Location: Cranford Community School, High Street, Cranford, Hounslow, TW5 9PD BIRMINGHAM (Sundays 9.30am - 1.00pm) Location: Namdari Gurudwara, On A45 coventry road LEICESTER (Sundays 2pm - 4pm) Location: Guru Amardas Gurdwara, 219-227 Clarendon Park Road, Leicester, Leicestershire, LE2 3AN 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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