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Whose Sanatan is it anyway?

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Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh,

It seems the debate as to the intentions and purpose of 'shastarvidiya' and similar 'dubious' site's continues but not on the main debates and discussion section? It is easily missed in the small section described as ' Sikh martial art's/Nihangs' (by me anyway!).

Did take a quick look at some of the recent postings no surprise that narsingha is typically evasive when it comes to answering a straight question. I would suggest that on the question someone posted with regards to 'Khalistan', have you looked at the site this individual represents? If not take a look, you will see 'they' question the idea of Sikhism as a independent faith never mind the concept of a sovereign Sikh state!

Narsingha, from many of the post's here and elsewhere, I am thankful that most of us can see the clear bias and loyalties that your site(s) conform to, much to your chagrin I am sure, but to what extent are you connected to UKPHA? It would seem to me that you are one and the same, is this correct? If so isn't UKPHA a registered charity supported by public grant / lottery money?

I would hate to think that public money was being spent to support websites that are supposedly Sikh but do not represent the collective beliefs of the vast majority of Sikhs in this country or elsewhere. Further much of the content could be construed as anti-Sikh in sentiment and purpose. Rest assured I will be looking into this further since I have resigned myself to not excepting you to answer any of the questions I have posed.

I also wanted to post the article below, for those of you who are not familiar the 'man in blue' is a Chardi Kala Dutch Sikh convert who has a regular column in the Sikh Times and can always be seen in attendance at events of Sikh interest.


surbut-khalsa 11:the man in blue

Index the man in blue columns :



During the June 7 British Sikh Consultative Forum meeting in Walsall we were given a document written by Nihang Nidar Singh, a gatka teacher who calls himself a 'Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Gurdev'.

It's main theme is that gatka has moved away from the original Sikh martial art. He is probably right, but he seems to have forgotten that even in the days of Maharaja Ranjit Singh the traditional way of fighting with sword, spear and bow and arrow, was on the way out. Modern gatka is a good method of learning coordination of movement and control over your body. Actual war is with modern weapons, not with traditional Nihang techniques.

Chatka Gatka Ustad Nihang Nidar Singh seems to be confused about Sikhi. A few examples will show what I mean. He writes about a traditional pluralistic Sikhi consisting of Udasis, Seva Panthis, Nirmalas and Akali Nihang Singhs.

Sikhi is not a narrow doctrinal religion. If you stick to the belief in One God, Guru Panth and Guru Granth, and follow the Reht Maryada, that will leave you a lot of freedom for your own individual religious experience. But Nidar Singh wants to include people in the panth who do not follow Guru's teachings. Udasis fought with Guru Gobind Singh against the Rajas and the Mughals, they looked after Gurdwaré, but they are not Sikhs.

Nidar Singh contrasts this 'pluralistic' Sikhi with that of the 'British Raj accommodating' (or Angrez) Sikhs, who later developed into the Singh Sabha movement. In reality things were quite different. When the British Raj treated the Sikhs well, there was peace. At other times the Sikhs and the British disagreed, like in the time of the Singh Sabha movement, over who should control the historical Gurdwaré, and there was a serious conflict.

Nidar Singh reminds me of some western scholars, who also deplore that the Sikhs moved away from the 'pluralistic' Hindu tradition under the influence of the Singh Sabha movement.

Nidar Singh tries to divide the Khalsa in different ranks, based on military skills. Obviously if the Khalsa is doing building work, we will choose builders as our leaders, and when we are waging war, we will follow experienced warriors. But our Guru made farmers, tailors and traders into fighters, and he did not want to create a 'caste' of fighting men, or of builders for that matter. Do not forget that our war against injustice involves more than physical fighting. Our gatka 'Ustad' also favours celibacy, another Hindu tendency.

Nidar Singh's gatka might be interesting, and I am in favour of other approaches than just the almost ballet type of gatka popular these days, but he does not know much about Sikhi ! Gurdwaré beware, do not let this person teach his un-Sikh ideas to the naujawan !

surbut-khalsa 03:news clippings

Narsingha, finally I thought you may appreciate a small excerpt from the Kathmandu post in tribute to your chosen namesake.

Narsingha Jatra of Patan

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Gur Fateh

Sukhbir Singh

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